Virtually Immortal and actually Immortal

[Beloren]

So, Chronicles points out the Night elves were made virtually immortal in addition to highly intelligent by their transformation from Dark Trolls to Night Elves. Other perks gained were enhanced strength, stature and dark skin.

how long is virtually immortal? - compare that to when they are linked to Nordrassil they are said to become immortal.

My conclusion here is Night elves are permanently virtually immortal - but this is not true immortality, it just means they live a very long long time - my estimate would be something like 15k-20k years. This along with the enhanced intellect, strength, stature and skin are permanent.

When they were linked to Nordrassil, that Nozdormu blessed, they actually became properly immortal, so it's like aging which was already much slower in them than other species, was frozen. It's like the blessings of Nordrassil preserved their psychie (Ysera's blessing), their bodies (Nozdormu's blessing) and their lives (Alexstrasza's blessings) in time. They lost that in WC3.

[TyrannicalPuppy]

I imagine that virtual immortality means that so long as Nordrassil would have stood, night elves would not have died natural deaths of old age, but could still be killed.

Actual immortality would be complete immunity to death, including murder, explosions, etc.

[DemonHunter18]

they were immortal as in they will never die from an old age. they will live forever unless they are killed. currently, they live up to 5000 thousand years if they live a healthy live.

[Wyrt]

they were immortal as in they will never die from an old age. they will live forever unless they are killed. currently, they live up to 5000 thousand years if they live a healthy live.

Um, they've only been mortal for like 20 years, kind of hard to give them a life span until they start dying.

[DemonHunter18]

Um, they've only been mortal for like 20 years, kind of hard to give them a life span until they start dying.

I know. its just my headcanon. I doubt we will have THAT big of a time jump.

[Enthralled]

I don't think Nordrassil granted them actual immortality, because even then they could still be permanently killed. See: Fandral Staghelm's son. What it did do was grant them immunity from death of old age.

"Virtually immortal" is something I understand is simply having an incredibly long lifespan with perhaps a great hardiness against things like pandemics and the like, but not a complete immunity against the aging process. So yes, maybe 15k - 20k history hasn't been able to test that as to how long they can actually live. Characters like Malfurion, Tyrande, Maiev etc are getting up there.

[Otaka]

they were immortal as in they will never die from an old age. they will live forever unless they are killed. currently, they live up to 5000 thousand years if they live a healthy live.

5000 thousand is 5 million. :P
I think you did a typo there?

Draenei however are supposedly immortal by nature... Prophet Velen was alive when kiljaeden and archimonde fell to legion and even today hes alive to tell about it.

To answer the op question virtually immortal probably means that you can be immortal as a being... you dont have to live in the same body forever.
Where as just being immortal would mean that your body and your very physical being would live forever.
I never really consider immortality the same as invincibility, so you could still be killed... just like gods have been depicted to us, they can be killed but are supposedly not because they are so powerful.

Its abit awkward to think about an immortal race... imagine if humans were immortal, never died of old age. What would our society be like? definetely more than 7 billion people but in terms of morals. Would old people be killed off? would there be less children being born? or maybe we would have developed our technology much faster because the same people had been working on it for thousands of years.... or perhaps exactly the opposite due to authorities still killing scientists for questioning their beliefs.

[Qualia]

I wouldn't take the NE's "immortality" serious. From what we know, they have never gotten true immortality both before and after the Sundering.

As you said, without the blessing, the Night Elf is just a long lived race - they age slowly, and can live for many thousands years - that's about it for "virtual immortality" mentioned in Chronicle. They might or might not be immune to natural diseases, I don't think we know about this. With the blessing, the NE would be unaging after maturing to a certain age (so the children wouldn't be stuck at age 0), but are still vulnerable to damage. Their regeneration speed remains the same, we don't know if they are immune to natural diseases either.

[DemonHunter18]

5000 thousand is 5 million. :P
I think you did a typo there?

shit, you're right . 5 thousand years is the correct one.

[Wildmoon]

Nozdormu's blessing made them immortal in the sense that they would "never age past their primes". Which mean that Malfurion,Tyrande and the likes started aging starting at their primes from the end of RoC.

[Nerevar]

5000 thousand is 5 million. :P
I think you did a typo there?

Draenei however are supposedly immortal by nature... Prophet Velen was alive when kiljaeden and archimonde fell to legion and even today hes alive to tell about it.

What always bothered me about this is why Velen has a beard and just looks like an old man if they're supposed to be immortal. Or do they choose at which point they stop aging or something.

[Beloren]

I imagine that virtual immortality means that so long as Nordrassil would have stood, night elves would not have died natural deaths of old age, but could still be killed.

Actual immortality would be complete immunity to death, including murder, explosions, etc.

It can't mean that, Chronicles specifically said that the well transformed the dark trolls into highly intelligent and virtually immortal beings - this happened long before Nordrassil. And off Nordrassil it says it made them actually immortal.


My conclusion here is Night elves are permanently virtually immortal - but this is not true immortality, it just means they live a very long long time - my estimate would be something like 15k-20k years. This along with the enhanced intellect, strength, stature and skin are permanent.

When they were linked to Nordrassil, that Nozdormu blessed, they actually became properly immortal (as long as the tree lasted i.e. it depended on the tree continuing in its capacity powered etc, conditional immortality but very much actually immortality), so it's like aging which was already much slower in them than other species, was frozen when they became properly immortal. It's like the blessings of Nordrassil preserved their psychie (Ysera's blessing), their bodies (Nozdormu's blessing) and their lives (Alexstrasza's blessings) in time. They lost that in WC3.

Theory
Why High Elves are Different:
My theory for why the High Elves are different is because when they were exiled they were cut off from benefititing from Nordrassil and the trials they went through, nearly dying they actually devolved. On setting up the sunwell, they re-evolved. Not to the same extent as previously, because the Sunwell was only 1 vial of the well of eternity. They didn't devolve into trolls, no the original transformation by the well is permanent, Elves will never devolve into trolls because they're changed forever, a new species, which also implies devolution would be to something different not and also means their current state is not dependent on a well being there necessarily. So as we see in the High Elf case, the night elf can devolve when cut off in that way and going through extreme hardship, and that's what a devolved night elf looks like until they were elevated a little by establishing the sunwell.

The reason the high elves have high intelligence even though the re-evolution from the sunwell isn't as potent - is because they handle arcane sources for casting, and the elves use to additionally enhance their intellect via arcane means beyond the originally already high base intellect. THe night elves didn't do that as a society because they stopped using arcane magic for spells, but we see it's a thing mages commonly do, and arcane sources are used to further enhance. So despite their naturally high intellect of the night elves, because the high elves actively use and are suffused by an arcane source, it shoots their intellect further ahead, without it, it would have dropped below the night elf standard.

The reason the High elves didn't evolve into a new species is because their well is also based on the Well of Eternity, the Elf is already changed as much as it could be from dark troll by the well. As we know they continue living by the well, but it doesn't change them beyond night elf. So the sunwell would not change them into a new species because it's still based Azeroth's lifeblood

The Nightborne & The Highborne:
It's similar here. The nightwell is made from the arcane font that was atop Suramar Palace which is part of the Well of Eternity, the Eye of Aman'thul used to link the leyline nexus below the city through the font. But both the leylines and the font are the same substance as the well of eternity. But like whatever the High elves did with the vial to make the Sunwell, the Eye of Aman'thul altered the nightwell a little too, hence why in time the night elves altered to look like they do now as nightborne.

However again it's not a change away from night elf, it's a modification of the original - more like an alternative version, and it is even less divergent than that of the high elves, they pretty much looker like skinnier night elves with largely only the darker skin tones. They were never linked to or cut off from Nordrassil, facing the hardships that devolved the Zin'Azshari into high elves before the sunwell enhanced them again bringing some of the prior attributes but not as many...they have lived 10k years + too, which I think shows that the night elves naturally quite long lived, the same with the Shen'drelar who have also lived that long.

Using arcane magic does extend life, and enhance intelligence, but it doesn't do so indefinitely, so it possible that their already long lived are further enhanced, but it isn't true immortality. If a human like Aegwyn and other mages can live a few times their normal lifespan because of the arcane, well what's a few times a normal night elves' lifespan then? The highborne, magic dominant groups - both the Shen'drelar, the Nightborne and the Moonguard remnant have also endured for 10k years too, they have not been mentioned as being immortal, but they have lived that long.

Conclusion: Night elves are virtually immortal - living very very long, but not truly immortal. Nordrassil made the Hyjal survivors truly immortal for the last 10k years, they did not age a drop, the other night elven groups - shend'relar, nightborne and moonguard did continue aging, but not that much, proving that they are very long lived, handling the arcane may have contributed to even further slowing down their naturally long long lives, but that remains the story.

[Aeula]

Didn't blizz say over Twitter that their lifespans are the same as other elves now?

[therealbowser]

In World of Warcraft, everything can die. This is a safe rule of thumb.

(But at the same time, anything can come back to life on a whim, too.)

If you're just asking about lifespans, there are plenty of beings that do not age with time. That is to be expected. But they can all be killed. They just don't age.

[Qualia]

What always bothered me about this is why Velen has a beard and just looks like an old man if they're supposed to be immortal. Or do they choose at which point they stop aging or something.

It wasn't stated anywhere that the Draenei are immortal. It's a lot more likely that they are just another long-lived race that age extremely slowly.

Edit: just noticed, but anyone know what happened to "Prophet's Lesson"? Just found out it's no longer on the new WoW lore story site.

[Tzalix]

Actual immortality would be complete immunity to death, including murder, explosions, etc.

Well, in many great works of fiction, immortality simply means that a person or being will not die of old age. The elves in Lord of the Rings, for example, were immortal, but could still be killed. What you describe is often referred to as being invincible, not immortal.

[therealbowser]

It wasn't stated anywhere that the Draenei are immortal. It's a lot more likely that they are just another long-lived race that age extremely slowly.

It's heavily implied. Name one draenei that has ever died of old age.

[Tzalix]

It's heavily implied. Name one draenei that has ever died of old age.

Name one gnome that has ever died of old age.

Few things die of old age in the Warcraft universe. At least, few that we hear about and get named in the lore.

[Beloren]

Name one gnome that has ever died of old age.

Few things die of old age in the Warcraft universe. At least, few that we hear about and get named in the lore.

/10 marks. I want you on my team xD

[Tzalix]

/10 marks. I want you on my team xD

What's the pay like? Do you have cookies?