So right now in beta how is Arcane compared to Fire?

[Renhiv]

We all know that Fire is amazing right now but Im thinking of rerolling to mage but would like to play Arcane. Considering beta build and artifacts and mana pool at 110 is Arcane actually still mediocore or pulls into higher dps tiers?

[Tyze]

Right now as what I've seen Fire still pulls ahead. But you never know (well you can almost figure out) Arcane will probably scale insane later on.
I mean Arcane was pretty meh in start of WoD.

But, if you really want to play Arcane I'm sure you'll be fine, but one spec will be better in the current raid most likely.

[Deleted]

I don't think we even know how to rotate Arcane properly. Some people report decent results. But it's undiscovered territory in part especially when it gets to multiple targets + some active talents.

Fire is pretty much cleared by the theorycrafters at the moment, they mainly tweak small things in the rotation, including for multiple targets.

[Azzurri]

If anything Arcane and Frost will be tuned if they fall far behind Fire.

[Wenoxar]

If anything Arcane and Frost will be tuned if they fall far behind Fire.

Just like Beast Mastery and Survival hunters were far-far behind MM and were not tuned during whole HFC?

[Nitros14]

Just like Beast Mastery and Survival hunters were far-far behind MM and were not tuned during whole HFC?

Little different now due to artifact power. If you commit to a spec and start getting those late traits even if your spec is 10% behind you'll still be losing damage trying to switch to another spec and level its end traits.

Blizzard will be more pressured to make balance changes.

[Wenoxar]

Blizzard will be more pressured to make balance changes.

I hope! Imagine how could would it be if the best DPS spec was just 5% better than the worst DPS spec :O But it's probably impossible to make it live a day ;p

[Dizzeeyooo]

If anything Arcane and Frost will be tuned if they fall far behind Fire.

either arcane or frost will be tuned ahead of fire after the first raid tier, and then the final spec of the 3 will be tuned ahead of both the other two at some point before the end of the expansion - if all 3 specs are equal at all times, then pure dps classes have no reason to level all 3 artifact weapons, and blizzard wants everyone leveling all their artifact weapons

[Krazzorx]

either arcane or frost will be tuned ahead of fire after the first raid tier, and then the final spec of the 3 will be tuned ahead of both the other two at some point before the end of the expansion - if all 3 specs are equal at all times, then pure dps classes have no reason to level all 3 artifact weapons, and blizzard wants everyone leveling all their artifact weapons

I'd say that's a very big assumption to make when Watcher's interview from a few months ago implied the opposite. They want relative balance, but they also want the best specs to stay the best specs. (Example he gave I think was if Fire was 10% better than frost they'd make it so it was only 5% better)

They may have made it easy-ish to multispec but don't think they want to force it.

[Deleted]

they also want the best specs to stay the best specs. (Example he gave I think was if Fire was 10% better than frost they'd make it so it was only 5% better

That's a strong statement. I didn't interpret it that way. They mainly wanted to say "we won't nerf you to the ground if you are op, we'll just make it more balanced". I doubt they wanted to say "you will remain overpowered compared to the other specs".

I've no idea what they'll do. They might keep it as it is and not care. But this time there is an incentive to care a little more because they soft-gate people behind artifact progression and they will get complains either with OPness or the opposite.

They may have made it easy-ish to multispec

It's harder to multispec now. You could have 3 specs in 6.x within a few seconds with the use of a simple addon or two. The gear was also similar, no different artifact progression and all that.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I'd say that's a very big assumption to make when Watcher's interview from a few months ago implied the opposite

what watcher says and what he does are two very different things

[HTowN]

what watcher says and what he does are two very different things

So what is your assumption based on?

[Krazzorx]

That's a strong statement. I didn't interpret it that way. They mainly wanted to say "we won't nerf you to the ground if you are op, we'll just make it more balanced". I doubt they wanted to say "you will remain overpowered compared to the other specs".

I've no idea what they'll do. They might keep it as it is and not care. But this time there is an incentive to care a little more because they soft-gate people behind artifact progression and they will get complains either with OPness or the opposite.


It's harder to multispec now. You could have 3 specs in 6.x within a few seconds with the use of a simple addon or two. The gear was also similar, no different artifact progression and all that.

Just copying this from the summary:" Artifact Power investment in the first few weeks puts extra pressure on the team to be careful with class balance changes.
For example, if Fire ends up 15% stronger than the other Mage specs, the team would reduce it by 10%. This way you still would have made the same choice with your Artifact Power, and overall class balance is fixed."

Who knows how it'll work out and how close they'll get to that but at least their goals seem correct.

Ya Ofc multi speccing is infinitely harder than before Legion, but it does get blown a bit out of proportion when you look at the math of multispeccing. It's not that bad until you hit the hidden traits. If there's a large gap in niches you'd probably spend points in 2 artifacts.

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what watcher says and what he does are two very different things

Don't really have anything else to go off of so while it might fail, least the goal seems to be good.

[Lioo]

Unless you are a cutting edge mythic raider, there is completely no reason not to play a spec you like, in my openion.

[Deleted]

Just copying this from the summary:" Artifact Power investment in the first few weeks puts extra pressure on the team to be careful with class balance changes.
For example, if Fire ends up 15% stronger than the other Mage specs, the team would reduce it by 10%. This way you still would have made the same choice with your Artifact Power, and overall class balance is fixed."

I think they implied there a 5% buff to the others. It wouldn't be a balance fixed without that. That of course is theory, in practice they may keep it imbalanced, even though in this expansion they likely can't do that that much.

[Krazzorx]

How I read it is if Frost is 15% behind Fire they will buff it so its only 5% behind. I'd assume notwithstanding niche differences (frost never will compete in aoe for instance). So fire (or whatever is best by the time EN hits) would remain best spec throughout xpac but they'd just narrow the gap as much as possible

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Unless you are a cutting edge mythic raider, there is completely no reason not to play a spec you like, in my openion.

I wouldn't say that because in a relative sense, no dps spec in WoW is truly difficult and never has been. So the easiest thing you can do to improve your chances at progressing is to play the best spec. Especially if the gap is large.

And regardless of level of raider (though it's more common at the top) many would consider killing bosses as efficiently as possible a greater increase to enjoyment than playing a "favorite spec". Which I think many forget.

[Deleted]

IF blizzard do what they did after the first week when Highmaul opened it - fire, frost and arcane will be tuned to be somewhat equal level.
IF blizzard do what they did after 14+ months of HFC - fire will be the king of the tier or it will be king for the progress and then when we gear up it will be replaced by arcane for zerg mode.

[Deleted]

after 14+ months of HFC - fire will be the king of the tier or it will be king for the progress and then when we gear up it will be replaced by arcane for zerg mode.

It started with frost, + arcane in a few fights, then it went to arcane for most fights because of the ring; fire was only a meme for 3-4 weeks when someone discovered we can soft cap crit on the crystal and then it went back to an arcane meme when someone killed Zakuun in a few seconds with arcane stacking.

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Also fire was rarely great for progress. The exception might be Xhul or Iskar under strict conditions. It wouldn't play well with the ring.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Just like Beast Mastery and Survival hunters were far-far behind MM and were not tuned during whole HFC?

Problem was how good Beast Mastery was in CMs. This will still be an issue when we are talking about high end progression raiding compared to Mythic+ dungeons.
One spec will be better than the others in each scenario.
Let's just hope they are more equal.

In regards to Arcane, I found it to be incredibly strong early on in the beta. Haven't seen it played much since, but at the time when we were all fresh 110s, people were doing around 1m burst, finishing at 200k in the Heroics I was running.
But now people are doubling that with all the gear they have gotten and everyone is fire.
I wonder if its because people prefer fire, or if Arcane requires raid trinkets and stuff to excel.

[Deleted]

I hope! Imagine how could would it be if the best DPS spec was just 5% better than the worst DPS spec :O But it's probably impossible to make it live a day ;p

hmm maybe the goal with blizzard is to make it easier for them. Players cant switch to a different spec just for a 5% dmg difference since you'll always be that much behind when you switch spec/artifact?

So they can just ignore 5% difference :P