Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Wow]

Are you saying assassination, outlaw, or rogues are weak in mythic plus?

Assassin's st doesn't make up for it' aoe in things like that at least compared to combat. Once you get greed combat aoe/cleave can be pretty crazy. Also getting 20-30% of your hp every time it proc's on trash packs it also very nice with all the dmg going out in mythic +. And properly rerolled or just lucky combat st is good too.

[Phurox]

I really dislike the random buffs. Would I be really nerfed by slice n dice instead ?

[WskyDK]

I really dislike the random buffs. Would I be really nerfed by slice n dice instead ?

Yes. By quite a bit (12-15%)

[Skylarking]

I really dislike the random buffs. Would I be really nerfed by slice n dice instead ?

If you don't like roll the bones then might as well play the other specs to be honest. Outlaw is just tasteless with it. My opinion though

[Phurox]

I just really hate that I have to spend energy on hoping to get the right buff rather than just give damage. Losing a fight over RNG buffs sucks.

[Skylarking]

I just really hate that I have to spend energy on hoping to get the right buff rather than just give damage. Losing a fight over RNG buffs sucks.

They designed the spec pretty well. You will perform just fine as long as you aren't getting extremely shitty rng and chain rolling the lowest dps buff(s). Which happens of course its the nature of rng. But the times when the stars align and stomping shit more than makes up for it imo.

[Tellof]

I just really hate that I have to spend energy on hoping to get the right buff rather than just give damage. Losing a fight over RNG buffs sucks.

There could exist a balance, albeit not optimal, where you can have some re-rolling but still not follow the guidelines strictly while still beating out Slice and Dice (maybe by a lot still!). If you were to, for example, always re-roll Grand Melee, re-roll True Bearing when Adrenaline Rush is on CD, and otherwise shoot for at least 1 resource buff, you wouldn't have to re-roll that often and could use more points on Run Through if that's what fits your tastes better. This would still give you some flavor variety, and you could otherwise tolerate very minimal re-rolling.

With the way the spec is tuned, shooting for Shark Infested Waters + 1 or 2 buffs or just 3 solid buffs together ends up beating out more more consistent usage of Run Through because during those 40 seconds you make up for it with the sheer volume of Run Throughs you do use - think of it like playing catch-up. Blade Flurry can also rack up a lot of damage because of the extra crit and frequent finishers. Using this method will more likely cause the DPS to come in waves, but over the duration of a longer fight it events out pretty competitively. Overall I'd say if the spec has a problem with RNG, it's only because you can't necessarily pull a good buff set out of your hat exactly when you need it for priority adds, etc. Otherwise, the buffs themselves are fairly well tuned against each other.

[Wow]

Just noticed on beta they rebalanced rtb today randomly in a hotfix, beta is now going down I'm guessing for a build.

jolly roger is 25%
SiW is 25%
Buried treasure is 25%
Grand melee is 50% attack speed 25% leech
Broadsides and true bearing unchanged.

Snd buffed back to 100%

Don't see any other changes to dmg I dunno if they a build will bring other changes.

Looks like the changes are on live too.

[Zoopercat]

(sorry if you saw this post in the roll the bones thread too)

The AMR simulator is updated with the RtB changes for today's hotfix. Go to http://beta.askmrrobot.com to do your sims.

And with that, I tested out the various combos again and found that rerolling for ANY 2 buff combo is best. But having just shark infested waters is so close, you might as well keep it, though that's up to you. Here's the update blog post about it.



edit: updated image with Slice and Dice DPS from the buff.

[Wow]

Is this taking into account the 25% run through buff? I only ask because this buff was literally just posted.

[Spriestlawl]

Is this taking into account the unknown run through buff?

No, pretty sure it's not. Nor the BtE buff either.. those spells haven't been updated because I'm pretty sure they don't know the official numbers just yet.

[Generical]

Thanks Zoopercat for responding to the changes with a new sim so quickly.

[Izenhart]

No, pretty sure it's not. Nor the BtE buff either.. those spells haven't been updated because I'm pretty sure they don't know the official numbers just yet.

They're now out

Run Through’s damage has been increased by 25%.
Between the Eyes damage has been increased by 18%.

[Spriestlawl]

They're now out

Run Through’s damage has been increased by 25%.
Between the Eyes damage has been increased by 18%.

Yup, AMR hasn't been updated yet. I'm sure they'll push out a hotfix update soon. Based on those numbers (assuming 0 rerolls) I did a bit of simc and it looks like Outlaw has officially surpassed the other two specs at the T19M level. Thankfully that change actually slowed the spec down a small tad and it looks like it increased responsiveness (probably due to the fact that you have less chance to get that extra saber slash animation ...). Even without those numbers it looked like Outlaw was going to pull ahead...

Edit: looks like at T19M ... not accounting for the Run Through and BtE buffs 315k dps. Accounting for them 338k dps.. Sin is sitting at 330k dps and sub is 325k dps. Around a 3% difference assuming I math'd properly in the simc. Because of the change I think it's going to bring RtB more inline and even less than the potential 8k you could get when accounting for the Run Through / BtE buffs.

[Zoopercat]

We'll get Run through and between the eyes up soon! Normally we update within 24 hours of the hotfixes because we take the time to triple check all changes with the in-game actual data. Today you guys got a super fast, special update, because I was curious about the new RtB balance.

So the rest will follow with tomorrow's update. Very good question

[Tomjashroom]

The fell sub daggerr would go great with the elite pvp gear set from WOD

[catablitz]

Do you think there is any chance that a standard SnD build can be competitive to RtB after the Run Through buff?

[Touch My Bankai]

Do you think there is any chance that a standard SnD build can be competitive to RtB after the Run Through buff?

Curious about this myself. Been playing with RtB since pre-patch came out and honestly, I can live with it... but I don't "like" it, if that makes sense. SnD, though boring and mundane, I can deal with (esp now with 100% atk speed).

[Sharpe]

Im really happy they buffed outlaw, i think alongside with fury its the most fun melee spec in game, thats just my opinion ofc, always loved combat and i really like the Dreadblades, if outlaw remains this competitive they will be my primary artifact for sure.

[catablitz]

Curious about this myself. Been playing with RtB since pre-patch came out and honestly, I can live with it... but I don't "like" it, if that makes sense. SnD, though boring and mundane, I can deal with (esp now with 100% atk speed).

It makes so much sense believe me..