What's up with Jainas attitude towards the horde all of the sudden?(Invasion Spoiler)

[Deleted]

I actually have. And it was still a cowardice retreat. You don't leave your allies to save your own ass. That's the very definition of being a coward.

They were fighting 2 different fronts, the alliance couldn't see what the horde was fighting and assumed they were free to help.

[Statix]

If both factions had stayed literally everyone would have died. Vol'jin was already severely injured and Baine was also, best thing to do at that point is retreat.

Yes, together. I can't believe no one understands what being a coward is. They might have died, but that's exactly what being brave is all about: knowing you probably won't make it, but still helping your allies out when they need you.

Regardless, I'm glad I'm Alliance. I would be ashamed of being Horde right now. Even more if I was defending their decision.

[Combatbutler]

Yes, together. I can't believe no one understands what being a coward is. They might have died, but that's exactly what being brave is all about: knowing you probably won't make it, but still help your allies out when they need you.

Regardless, I'm glad I'm Alliance. I would be ashamed of being Horde right now. Even more if I was defending their decision.

It wouldn't have changed a damn thing, that is what the broken shore is all about, the legion laid a trap for us and they got us good, they wiped the floor with the horde and the Alliance. Guldan still had that giant robot up his sleeve, if he had dropped that into the Alliance army while they were on the ground it would have been game over.

[Deleted]

in short: she got played like a little bitch by Garrosh and lost her city to his strategic genius! as weak as she is se got a cuckoo in her head and went white streak of hair. weird priorities, considering that she decided to skip purge of Stratholme and the fact she cheated on Arthas. but hey, bitches gonna be bitches.

[beanman12345]

Yes, together. I can't believe no one understands what being a coward is. They might have died, but that's exactly what being brave is all about: knowing you probably won't make it, but still helping your allies out when they need you.

Regardless, I'm glad I'm Alliance. I would be ashamed of being Horde right now. Even more if I was defending their decision.

Yes together. That is exactly why the horn or retreat was sounded, so they could retreat, together. Even with your own logic you are wrong.

[Archmage Khadgar]

Yes, together. I can't believe no one understands what being a coward is. They might have died, but that's exactly what being brave is all about: knowing you probably won't make it, but still helping your allies out when they need you.

Regardless, I'm glad I'm Alliance. I would be ashamed of being Horde right now. Even more if I was defending their decision.

In the end, the horde leaders giving their lives to help the people who are still going to be their enemies isn't worth it. Sylvanas obeyed the Warchief who knew they would all be wiped out if they stayed to help.

It's nice to dream that everyone there were actually best friends who would give their lives for each other but that's obviously not true.

[FelPlague]

I don't know all of the lore but I clearly remember how she was ok with helping the horde against her father and ultimately being the reason why her father died. I always liked her and her views on everything and I thought she would be the first person on Alliance side who would try and figure out what happened and why horde abandoned them.

Instead she acted all hissy-pissy like, saying that she now hates the horde and wants revenge. I really didn't get that part. I expected a lot more from her.

let the horde kill her father to help the horde survive
helped baine recapture thunderbluff by giving her own money to let him hire mercs
garrosh bombed theramore
she whent to destroy orgrimmar but dercided not to
garrosh all most killed anduin her "son like figure" as she was being very motherly to him (or aunt atleast)
then the blood elves used her neutral city to commit acts of war, so she started kicking them out till they refused to leave, and she had to kill some of them as a riot started
seige of orgrimmar happens, shes pissed, she likes the trolls, the tauren, but the goblins, orcs, and undead could be issues so she tells varien to dismantle the horde, so the alliance can hopefully pick up the peices and recruit the tauren, and trolls (and maybe recover the blood elves...)
she forgives the horde, but then warlords of draenor happens, she still has mostly forgiven the horde
then the horde abandons the alliance leaving them to die, getting varien killed, her last friend, the only other person who was there to help her when arthas turned, her last friend, and her king, dead because of the hordes (sad but needed) excuse to leave


so its mostly that shes had enough, shes trusted the horde too many times, ad now sees the only way for peace is to get rid of them

[Trassk]

Alright that makes sense, sucks about Theramore but I honestly expected more out of her than just basic anger/everyones at fault lol.
Props to Baine for going against Garrosh and warning Jaina that Garrosh was going to attack her.

Yeah theramore, that thing Garrosh did that Jaina blames the rest of the horde for, kind of like that blackmoore thing Thrall blames the rest of the alliance for.. oooh wait, no, no he didn't.

Jainas a flip flopping cow, first it was understandable, but reason would lead any sane person to understand it was Garrosh who arranged it, like Anduin understood. It would have been understandable, and she began to accept the fact, but then any slight provocation she could find to hate on the horde again she would use it.

At the end of the garrosh trial graphic novel, we got some kind of connection betwen thrall and jaina again like she finally forgave him and she was going to come around, but right away first chance she got she went right back to hating on the horde once more.

The excuse 'theramore' doesn't hold up anymore when the character flip-flops her mood like a pissed off teenager

[Alydael]

At the beginning of MoP she was garrisoning a sizable amount of Alliance troops in Theramore, so Garrosh bombed it, killing almost everyone she knew and loved. She obviously felt that she was betrayed by the Horde while in reality she betrayed Theramore's neutral position first by allowing Alliance troops to be garrisoned in Theramore which is right on Orgrimmar's doorstep.

During MoP she used the Kirin Tor to get the Bell of the Heavens to the Alliance, so Garrosh used the Sunreavers to steal it back from them which she saw as a betrayal even though she betrayed the Kirin Tor's neutrality first.

Basically, she became a basic bitch that doesn't seem to understand what it means to be neutral between two global superpowers and paid the price for it.

Theramore was never really "neutral," it was always an alliance city. Also, in the book (I believe it was "Tides of War") the reason they dropped the mana bomb was to basically satisfy Garrosh's blood lust, it wasn't over the troops being garrisoned there.

[Darktbs]

Yeah theramore, that think Garrosh did that Jaina blames the rest of the horde for, kind of like that blackmoore thing Thrall blames the rest of the alliance for.. oooh wait, no, no he didn't.

Jainas a flip flopping cow, first it was understandable, but reason would lead any sane person to understand it was Garrosh who arranged it, like Anduin understood. It would have been understandable, and she began to accept the fact, but then any slight provocation she could find to hate on the horde again she would use it.

At the end of the garrosh trial graphic novel, we got some kind of connection betwen thrall and jaina again like she finally forgave him and she was going to come around, but right away first chance she got she went right back to hating on the horde once more.

The excuse 'theramore' doesn't hold up anymore when the character flip-flops her mood like a pissed off teenager

The problem is people tell her that the Horde are not monsters.But everytime she give the horda a chance they fuck up once more.

[bloodmoth13]

At the beginning of MoP she was garrisoning a sizable amount of Alliance troops in Theramore, so Garrosh bombed it, killing almost everyone she knew and loved. She obviously felt that she was betrayed by the Horde while in reality she betrayed Theramore's neutral position first by allowing Alliance troops to be garrisoned in Theramore which is right on Orgrimmar's doorstep.

During MoP she used the Kirin Tor to get the Bell of the Heavens to the Alliance, so Garrosh used the Sunreavers to steal it back from them which she saw as a betrayal even though she betrayed the Kirin Tor's neutrality first.

Basically, she became a basic bitch that doesn't seem to understand what it means to be neutral between two global superpowers and paid the price for it.

Interesting twist on things

[Trassk]

The problem is people tell her that the Horde are not monsters.But everytime she give the horda a chance they fuck up once more.

Or, as example of this event, people like her and Genn look for ANY EXCUSE to blame the horde for their woes, even when what the horde are doing is trying to survive.

Its not the horde that fucks up, because if they were 'monsters', no other neutral faction would want to be associated with the horde, despite them working with them.

[shimerra]

I actually have. And it was still a cowardice retreat. You don't leave your allies to save your own ass. That's the very definition of being a coward.

Stay to die and ultimately contribute to losing the ultimate war isn't bravery. Or smart. Intelligently retreating from a losing battle so you can engage and WIN later isn't cowardice and you need you study your dictionary more if you think it is.

You're like those people that get pissed off in MoBAs because I didn't retardedly follow you while you dove the enemy tower at 1/4 hp with 5 of them there to try and get a single kill. But some how I'm the idiot/pussy for not following you even though the BEST situation you could hope for was a 1:1 where the enemy team still benefits more from assist gold and 1 kill for us 2 for them had I decided to stupidly follow you making an already uneven trade more uneven in favor of the enemy.

[scorpious1109]

Garrosh fucked her over, so now she's a complete racist against the entire Horde, even though Garrosh was dethroned and killed. But no, despite the fact that we need all the help we can get, she' gonna fuck off when the Kirin tor need her most because she's throwing a hissy fit over working with the Horde. Someone needs to beat some sense into her. I hope we get to.

[Sluvs]

Yes, together. I can't believe no one understands what being a coward is. They might have died, but that's exactly what being brave is all about: knowing you probably won't make it, but still helping your allies out when they need you.

Regardless, I'm glad I'm Alliance. I would be ashamed of being Horde right now. Even more if I was defending their decision.

If they kept fighting, they would be wiped out, together, yes. But this is a war that they are fighting, and losing their leadership would mean defeat of the entire world. This is not a time for bravery, this is a time for calculated battles and a cool head for war. If the horde was "brave" the entire world would be done at that battle. That's it. The decision to retreat was the right decision, bravery would not be rewarded in the broken shore. It would be punished.

[Trassk]

Stay to die and ultimately contribute to losing the ultimate war isn't bravery. Or smart. Intelligently retreating from a losing battle so you can engage and WIN later isn't cowardice and you need you study your dictionary more if you think it is.

That seems to be the idiocy of people on these threads who don't know shit about warfare or tactics. Honor and its definition seems to be a buzz word used to perform acts that have no guarantee of victory, 'its honorable to die so we can live' is almost comical to sound it out.
Real warriors don't throw their lives away in a losing battle, the alliance and horde had no idea how big the legion force would be when they faught it, but when it became obvious they were vastly outnumbered, sylvanas was the one who realized this, and called for a retreat, to live and fight another day.
Varian overestimated his chances, and died because of it, this isn't the hordes fault.

[Geso]

Kind of shocked i haven't seen anything about a dreadlord yet which of course she is.

[Terongor]

I think its classy that for Jaina to talk about betrayal when she personaly is a expert on it. 1) she said to Arthas she loves him and will never deny or betray him. Next day she abandod Arthas right in front of Stratholme and after even though se promised no to tell ANYBODY she tells Uther that Arthas went to Northrend. When you betray the person you "love" that hugely and in short time it proves you are not to be trusted. Secondly she betrayed her own father to the Horde. Even though is was for peace she betrayed two of them most importan men in her life in short time and doing the worst betrayal she could do for them. She also left her mentor to be killed by her ex lover.

Also that might be seen as cowardice BUT in lok'tar ogar techically doesn't count there because it is in lore just as an idealogy by orcs and in cutscene I see only one orc namely Thrall who lost all his honor in mak'gora against Garrosh, though he learned from Blackmoore so I guess it is okay to accept the his cowardice as Calia for hiding from Scourge or Jaina when he ran from dalaran when Arthas sieged it.

[DarkTZeratul]

They were fighting 2 different fronts, the alliance couldn't see what the horde was fighting and assumed they were free to help.

And yet, if Varian had survived, that entire mix up would have been cleared up shortly thereafter. Varian would have gone, "what the hell, Sylvanas?", she would have explained that they were overrun, and he would have gone, "oh, I totally get it now. Sucks, but what can you do?"

[Logwyn]

Kind of shocked i haven't seen anything about a dreadlord yet which of course she is.

And the real Jaina is a prisoner?!!?! Body snatcher??! Doppelganger?