they nerf rogue to get people play DEMON HUNTER? ok i'm on it

[shaunika123]

The problem is Subtelty still rewards high end players that quick with their fingers and know what binds to press and when. Maybe that's why people have a hard time. The spec is a lot of fun

why is that a problem?:P

[Soisoisoi]

why is that a problem?:P

E: I must be tired, I swore you quoted me. D: I'll leave the following anyway, even not directed at you any more. >.<

You have Stealth/Shadow Dance? Shadowstrike
You don't have them^? Backstab.

Whilst you use one, the other is literally useless.

We used to have stances, so we could macro them with [stance:0] Backstab; [stance:1/23] Ambush - for example, but they are gone. So, again the abilities that would otherwise have been on the same keybind for the last 10 years, now all of a sudden have to be moved. Now, again because someone always points it out - the keybinds are not an issue (I have 60 keybinds currently, 28 unused).

They literally do the same thing, but one has a buff requirement the other doesn't. They even merged Shred and Ravage for Druids for the same reason. It's just clunky and not needed. It doesn't add depth to the spec, it doesn't add difficulty, it definitely doesn't make it any more fun. So, why have it, other than to annoy 99% of the people who have posted in the rogue feedback thread(s) over the last few months? I first posted about it in the alpha thread April 13th, and every new thread since - along with hundreds of other players. Still nothing changed.

[Spriestlawl]

E: I must be tired, I swore you quoted me. D: I'll leave the following anyway, even not directed at you any more. >.<

You have Stealth/Shadow Dance? Shadowstrike
You don't have them^? Backstab.

Whilst you use one, the other is literally useless.

We used to have stances, so we could macro them with [stance:0] Backstab; [stance:1/23] Ambush - for example, but they are gone. So, again the abilities that would otherwise have been on the same keybind for the last 10 years, now all of a sudden have to be moved. Now, again because someone always points it out - the keybinds are not an issue (I have 60 keybinds currently, 28 unused).

They literally do the same thing, but one has a buff requirement the other doesn't. They even merged Shred and Ravage for Druids for the same reason. It's just clunky and not needed. It doesn't add depth to the spec, it doesn't add difficulty, it definitely doesn't make it any more fun. So, why have it, other than to annoy 99% of the people who have posted in the rogue feedback thread(s) over the last few months? I first posted about it in the alpha thread April 13th, and every new thread since - along with hundreds of other players. Still nothing changed.

To be fair though, it's really not a problem. It's merely a QoL inconvenience because it USED to work just fine before and they intentionally broke it. What's worse is SoD by far.. it's a far worse offender imho. It's pretty infuriating.

[Soisoisoi]

To be fair though, it's really not a problem. It's merely a QoL inconvenience because it USED to work just fine before and they intentionally broke it. What's worse is SoD by far.. it's a far worse offender imho. It's pretty infuriating.

Definitely. It's a bland button you press every 30 or so seconds that does nothing for game play. I think it's just going to get macrod into SS/SD by the vast majority. In fact I'd like to see the sims on that... Guaranteed crit vs energy loss. Any ideas?

[Deleted]

Definitely. It's a bland button you press every 30 or so seconds that does nothing for game play. I think it's just going to get macrod into SS/SD by the vast majority. In fact I'd like to see the sims on that... Guaranteed crit vs energy loss. Any ideas?

My problem with all this is that assassination once again is going to be below sub for ST damage. They could make it a bit more complex and that would be fine, as long as assassination got its turn to shine

[shaunika123]

Definitely. It's a bland button you press every 30 or so seconds that does nothing for game play. I think it's just going to get macrod into SS/SD by the vast majority. In fact I'd like to see the sims on that... Guaranteed crit vs energy loss. Any ideas?

you mean like.... slice and dice?

[Soisoisoi]

My problem with all this is that assassination once again is going to be below sub for ST damage. They could make it a bit more complex and that would be fine, as long as assassination got its turn to shine

I think Assassination will still be pretty decent, it's going to be best for 2-3 target fights and even trash/5mans until they start being aoe fests. No one is going outlaw whilst rtb has such a huge variance in dps.

you mean like.... slice and dice?

At least that was slightly more tied into the rotation via combo points, even then it was still meh. Just not as bad as SoD.

[Celfydd]

You have Stealth/Shadow Dance? Shadowstrike
You don't have them^? Backstab.

Whilst you use one, the other is literally useless.
...
They literally do the same thing, but one has a buff requirement the other doesn't.

According to this logic, in WoD 6.2 assassination, Mutilate and Dispatch are the same thing and you should have been allowed to bind them both to the same button.

You have a Blindside proc or target is under 35% health? Dispatch
You don't? Mutilate

"Literally useless" to do otherwise, right? They "literally do the same thing but one has a requirement the other doesn't".

And WoD assassination was "so clunky" as a result, that when 7.0 appeared and Dispatch was no more, people flocked to the forums to complain that it had been taken away because the rotation was so much more boring now that it consisted entirely of refreshing dots.

[omeomorfismo]

someone dont make the macro [mod:shift] for mut e dispatch?

[Celfydd]

anyone dont make the macro [mod:shift] for mut e dispatch?

How is that not pressing another button? You actually have to press the Shift key: Shift-1 is not the same binding as 1. You can do exactly the same thing with Shadowstrike and Backstab.

[Segus1992]

Holy shit, I thought for sure this'd be a joke thread, but good lord. Are people actually this stupid?

"Oh no numbers in a game were reduced, it's a fucking conspiracy!!"

[omeomorfismo]

How is that not pressing another button? You actually have to press the Shift key: Shift-1 is not the same binding as 1. You can do exactly the same thing with Shadowstrike and Backstab.

because the mod:shift can be used with other buttons, when you memorize the use of shift, control and alt once then you are ok forever, you can bind spells with the same use like CP generator, aoe, cc in the same buttons.

[Segus1992]

because the mod:shift can be used with other buttons, when you memorize the use of shift, control and alt once then you are ok forever, you can bind spells with the same use like CP generator, aoe, cc in the same buttons.

Still pressing different buttons. You can remember R and E as well.

[shaunika123]

I think Assassination will still be pretty decent, it's going to be best for 2-3 target fights and even trash/5mans until they start being aoe fests. No one is going outlaw whilst rtb has such a huge variance in dps.


At least that was slightly more tied into the rotation via combo points, even then it was still meh. Just not as bad as SoD.

and sod is tied into the rotation via shadow dance

i know change is the most horrible thing ever for a rogue but come on...

[Nihilist74]

i was an assa rogue! it was fantastic .... now nerf assa and outlaw remain only sub with the shadow dance problematic that you need to press a differt button to do shadowstrike in SD and don't go in stealth mode bar ... so TY blizz

DEMON OP HUNTER i'm coming ...

Yah really pisses me off the way shadowdance doesn't take you to your stealth action bar. Rogue is a lot more interesting to play compared to demon hunter. Rogue has a more interesting rotation especially sub.

[omeomorfismo]

sure, but i cant remember R+E, R+1, R+2, R+space and so on.
instead i can remember shift+3, shift+4, shift+R, shift+F, shift+space, shift+X, shift+E, shift+V
shift is a variation, not a different button
for my brain and fingers change a rotation from 3-3-4 to s3-s3-4 is a lot simpler than F-F-4.
even press a proc spell is simpler if i mod the baseline spell respect to press a completely different button.

yes technically isnt the same button, but pratically the modifiers arent different buttons :|

[Soisoisoi]

and sod is tied into the rotation via shadow dance

i know change is the most horrible thing ever for a rogue but come on...

It's not really tied in at all though, I assume the vast majority will end up just macroing it, making 100% pointless. Those who don't will probably just macro it into a second SD keybind.

[Pull My Finger]

It don't know what is is, but Rogue players consistently strike me as being able to come up with the most ridiculous conspiracy theories and childishly whacky assumptions. Since Vanilla. Obviously whenever a new melee class or spec is introduced, they reach their top form in this regard and are all in full cry (see what I did there)?

I guess playing a class that's based around a lot of concealment, deception and hiding in shadows does come with a certain inclination to paranoia.

[shaunika123]

It's not really tied in at all though, I assume the vast majority will end up just macroing it, making 100% pointless. Those who don't will probably just macro it into a second SD keybind.

it's just as tied in as slice is to combo points and

macroing it to a second SD keybind is the same as having it bound, it's still 2 keys and you still do it in different cirsumtances

and if you macro it into your regular dance you'll waste tons of damage, that's like saying people macrod premed into ambush imagine that dps loss times 100

[Soisoisoi]

it's just as tied in as slice is to combo points and

macroing it to a second SD keybind is the same as having it bound, it's still 2 keys and you still do it in different cirsumtances

and if you macro it into your regular dance you'll waste tons of damage, that's like saying people macrod premed into ambush imagine that dps loss times 100

Exactly, but that's what people WILL do, just like they did with Premed. I'm talking about the vast majority here, those who don't really care for that extra bit of damage, those who don't raid or do rated PvP. It's just that much of a weird ability. Off the GCD, short cooldown, no difference in rotation with or without it. SnD was something you had to at least think about occasionally, this... you have the option to ignore it completely.