Prepared vs Demon Blades

[purebalance]

Just read that Demon Blades got nerfed and it's better to take prepared?
Source: http://www.gameskinny.com/xe8ul/worl...re-patch-guide

Though Icy Veins tells me that Demon Blades win in most situations
Souce: http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/havoc-d...builds-talents

Any thoughts/confirmations?

I love playing with both talents!

The devs said demon blades will always be intended to be weaker.

[wordup]

The devs said demon blades will always be intended to be weaker.

The devs also said that all classes in HFC were relatively well balanced for DPS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Can only judge these things based on the numbers in the game, no matter what their intention is it isn't always strictly represented.

[Ctee]

The devs also said that all classes in HFC were relatively well balanced for DPS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Can only judge these things based on the numbers in the game, no matter what their intention is it isn't always strictly represented.

Personal question for you. Ignoring the fact that DB might sim better in certain situations, do YOU enjoy the play style of the talent?

[wordup]

Personal question for you. Ignoring the fact that DB might sim better in certain situations, do YOU enjoy the play style of the talent?

At 100, not particularly, but that is fairly indicative of the emptiness of the spec without the remainder of the tree. At 110 I have no qualms playing Demon Blades in certain builds and find it relatively enjoyable, not because of Demon Blades itself, but how it fits in with the rest of the toolkit.

[Schizoide]

At 100, not particularly, but that is fairly indicative of the emptiness of the spec without the remainder of the tree. At 110 I have no qualms playing Demon Blades in certain builds and find it relatively enjoyable, not because of Demon Blades itself, but how it fits in with the rest of the toolkit.

DB sims at 32% wait time at 110. You seriously enjoy that? Or is simcraft wrong?

(Previous version of simcraft had it at 50% wait time, so that is certainly possible.)

[retsiem]

The devs said demon blades will always be intended to be weaker.

I hate this, then no one would use it if it will always be weaker

[wordup]

DB sims at 32% wait time at 110. You seriously enjoy that? Or is simcraft wrong?

(Previous version of simcraft had it at 50% wait time, so that is certainly possible.)

Simming wait time and judging how it actually plays based off that number seems like a fairly silly thing to do. If that 32% is spent spamming Demon's Bite as opposed to letting DBlades proc in empty GCDs that I can also play around to maximise, I don't see a difference. Mashing one uninteresting key vs. letting a proc occur isn't exactly a stark difference to me.

[Schizoide]

Simming wait time and judging how it actually plays based off that number seems like a fairly silly thing to do. If that 32% is spent spamming Demon's Bite as opposed to letting DBlades proc in empty GCDs that I can also play around to maximise, I don't see a difference. Mashing one uninteresting key vs. letting a proc occur isn't exactly a stark difference to me.

Wait time directly impacts my enjoyment. I personally hate sitting around doing nothing. When Frost DKs had >40% wait time in 6.0, I despised the spec and was really rather bitter about it. Now that they're geared up with tons of haste and down to 10% wait time, I enjoy it again. YMMV obviously.

I can definitely see Demon Blades being more attractive in patch 7.3 with tons of haste. But 30% wait time... no way, man. Not for me.

I still believe the Enhance solution is better. Have the talent add a cooldown to Demon's Bite to avoid GCD-locking, but don't remove it entirely.

[Lillpapps]

The devs also said that all classes in HFC were relatively well balanced for DPS ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Can only judge these things based on the numbers in the game, no matter what their intention is it isn't always strictly represented.

Classes were relatively well balanced at the beginning of HFC before people got legendary ring. Blizzard has never given a crap about the last tier dps after progress.

[wordup]

Classes were relatively well balanced at the beginning of HFC before people got legendary ring. Blizzard has never given a crap about the last tier dps after progress.

That's a diluted perspective, there were still large gulfs in performance at the beginning of HFC before the ring got involved. Because the extreme craziness of right now can be attributed to the ring, it's easy to forget that since it was over a year ago.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait time directly impacts my enjoyment. I personally hate sitting around doing nothing. When Frost DKs had >40% wait time in 6.0, I despised the spec and was really rather bitter about it. Now that they're geared up with tons of haste and down to 10% wait time, I enjoy it again. YMMV obviously.

I can definitely see Demon Blades being more attractive in patch 7.3 with tons of haste. But 30% wait time... no way, man. Not for me.

I still believe the Enhance solution is better. Have the talent add a cooldown to Demon's Bite to avoid GCD-locking, but don't remove it entirely.

I think that's treading far too much into the "I don't like it so it should be changed" territory which I think is always unhealthy when it comes to this. The talent has a fairly well designed intention, not liking it because it doesn't suit your playstyle (which is fine) shouldn't be a cause to demand a rework to it, same goes for the anti momentum posts. Sometimes you just have to step back and think whether or not you're forcing yourself to play a spec or class you don't like for the wrong reasons.

[Schizoide]

I absolutely do believe it should be changed, and I don't see why providing feedback in unhealthy.

You're 100% correct that choosing a main you don't enjoy is unhealthy, if that's what you meant. As long as it requires constant repositioning, I would never main a DH.

[dyzz]

That's a diluted perspective, there were still large gulfs in performance at the beginning of HFC before the ring got involved. Because the extreme craziness of right now can be attributed to the ring, it's easy to forget that since it was over a year ago.

- - - Updated - - -



I think that's treading far too much into the "I don't like it so it should be changed" territory which I think is always unhealthy when it comes to this. The talent has a fairly well designed intention, not liking it because it doesn't suit your playstyle (which is fine) shouldn't be a cause to demand a rework to it, same goes for the anti momentum posts. Sometimes you just have to step back and think whether or not you're forcing yourself to play a spec or class you don't like for the wrong reasons.

While it may not apply here, since DH's are new, alot of classes only have 1 viable "spec" of a certain type. For instance, rogues had 3 damage specs, but only Subtley was supreme in most cases where BF couldn't just destroy for 80% of the fight. So your pretty much forced to play sub, even if you dont like it. Especially in the current state of wow where people are "all about that damage meter" and less about "did we actually do the mechanic?".

In that scenario, I can see why people want things changed. You put all that work in, and don't necessarily want to regear/start over with another class. People complaining about Momentum tho, are not in that situation as there is nothing invested in a DH at this point that could stop you from wanting to play another class.

[Schizoide]

People complaining about Momentum tho, are not in that situation as there is nothing invested in a DH at this point that could stop you from wanting to play another class.

Calling it "complaining" is really insulting. Like you say, I have nothing invested in a demon hunter. My feedback is pure. I believe the spec would be attractive to more players if they allowed us to choose whether we wanted to constantly reposition.

This thread is about Demon Blades not Fel Rush/Momentum, and my feedback there is just as pure. I believe Demon Blades is a poorly designed talent, because the amount of wait time it introduces is extreme, and the Enhance solution would be much more enjoyable.

[Kainslife]

I believe the spec would be attractive to more players if they allowed us to choose whether we wanted to constantly reposition.

The class is already going to be overpopulated. The last thing Blizzard needs to do is homogenize it so that it's even more attractive.

[Vanyali]

Calling it "complaining" is really insulting. Like you say, I have nothing invested in a demon hunter. My feedback is pure. I believe the spec would be attractive to more players if they allowed us to choose whether we wanted to constantly reposition.

This thread is about Demon Blades not Fel Rush/Momentum, and my feedback there is just as pure. I believe Demon Blades is a poorly designed talent, because the amount of wait time it introduces is extreme, and the Enhance solution would be much more enjoyable.

It sounds like you really like the idea of DH, but hate the shit out of most of the mechanics.

Which is fine. But it doesn't mean the class needs change. I like the idea of Enhancer, but hate the playstyle... so I don't play it, or play it extraordinarily casually.

[AvatarM]

Calling it "complaining" is really insulting. Like you say, I have nothing invested in a demon hunter. My feedback is pure. I believe the spec would be attractive to more players if they allowed us to choose whether we wanted to constantly reposition.

This thread is about Demon Blades not Fel Rush/Momentum, and my feedback there is just as pure. I believe Demon Blades is a poorly designed talent, because the amount of wait time it introduces is extreme, and the Enhance solution would be much more enjoyable.

I thought that way too, but I specced Demon Blades, and its just less spammy, 30% wait time vs spamming a single ability just to build fury, its almost the same thing, without beeing GCD locked. The problem is not just wait time, Moonkin have a build that just spam 3 spells on single target (Natures Balance), auto refresh dots, you keep spamming Wrath, Lunar Strike, to build power, StarSurge to dump. Its fucking boring as hell... AND you are always casting (NO WAIT TIME)... the same thing, forever.

Spamming a ability is not fun too. The other moonkin builds are much better, cause you gain new spells to keep trackng and the most fun, is SYNERGY. Full Moon with Fury of Elune Build will be FUN =D.

[ElDoorO]

The only complaint about Demon Blades is it can be hard to tell if I'm within range if things move around too much.
The downtime allows me to coordinate CD's better but it feels.. weird having that much downtime.

[Schizoide]

I thought that way too, but I specced Demon Blades, and its just less spammy, 30% wait time vs spamming a single ability just to build fury, its almost the same thing

Gosh, it's really, really not. You may prefer it, but it isn't the same thing at all.

@Vanyali: I dislike 2 mechanics, the constant repositioning and Demon Blades. Demon Blades is optional so it's not a dealbreaker, I just believe it should be improved.

[Feawen]

Demon Blades is fine and decent in three situations as already pointed out in the Havoc Sticky. You have to get used to it's playstyle and hidden charges system to make it work. You need all of our talent rows to make it work. Most will not like it since DH's are lacking spells, abilities, dots (we have 1), procs (we have 1 when talented into it). Do not worry if you do not like it, it was nerfed and Prepared is now almost always better.

[Sarkol]

This. Sitting there auto attacking looking at my screen makes me want to sacrifice my own damn eyes. Why was this talent ever implemented?

Because that's not how it fucking plays, that's why. Or it isn't if you use a proper Momentum build. You don't just stare at your screen while auto attacking. You, and everyone else needs to do just a bit of research before you bash talents, and also, it's a choice not to take it. Just don't take the god damn talent if you don't like it. And don't give me any crap about Demon Blades being the best. It's so close it doesn't matter.

There's plenty of Globals to fill the gaps that appear when using Demon Blades, but i won't explain it further to someone who clearly can't be bothered to find out themselves.