Scientists to unveil new Earth-like planet

[May90]

In my mind, once you subscribe fully to the scientific method it limits how far you can truly reach. This isnt a bash against anyone who is a true beleiver in the method, many great things have come from it....but i need to be that guy who allows alternative theories into my head to be honest with myself, without praise from others.

Sure, I agree with that. There is a difference though between allowing alternative theories as a fun mental exercise, and accepting alternative theories in the lack of evidence. You are saying that Copernican principle might be wrong, based on this "axis of evil" - this is a very far-fetched assumption. You say that the probability of this alignment is extremely low, but it doesn't mean much. Even if the probability is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000001%, it still could have happened randomly, OR there might just be some effect we don't know very well yet. I have an assumption on what that might be, for one, but it requires extensive and very intricate modeling to confirm, probably more computationally difficult than we are able to perform nowadays.

It is good to be open-minded. It is wrong to jump to conclusions though.

[Fascinate]

So you prefer to remain naive, lack the requisite foundational understandings, and overall just be incapable to extrapolate the true meanings behind the articles you've linked that you're falsely interpreting? Who's the one with confirmation bias here?

Because i had two words mixed up you came up with all that? Oh right i forgot, dark matter is real and im an idiot....my bad!

[Kalis]

Well it seems i am retarded, i somehow confused solstice with equinox, here is the definition of equinox from wiki:


So yes, that article definitely is talking about the CMB pointing directly at the earth. I dont care what you believe kalis, just dont twist things to fit your theory.

And again you are deliberately misrepresenting the data, but at least you got one thing right in that post, so that is a start.

[Fascinate]

Sure, I agree with that. There is a difference though between allowing alternative theories as a fun mental exercise, and accepting alternative theories in the lack of evidence. You are saying that Copernican principle might be wrong, based on this "axis of evil" - this is a very far-fetched assumption. You say that the probability of this alignment is extremely low, but it doesn't mean much. Even if the probability is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000001%, it still could have happened randomly, OR there might just be some effect we don't know very well yet. I have an assumption on what that might be, for one, but it requires extensive and very intricate modeling to confirm, probably more computationally difficult than we are able to perform nowadays.

It is good to be open-minded. It is wrong to jump to conclusions though.

Not 100% sure i am jumping to conclusions tho...

What about an earth centered universe contradicts anything in our current world view? Literally the only thing ive heard that has given me pause is the retrograde motion of the stars, which to be honest i have been told can be explained any number of ways.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

While technically correct, if we funded a trip of such magnitude social media would deem it god vs science, winner takes all.

Science won already

[Nihilist74]

Just another attempt from science to write off a creator, nothing will come from this. I am curious tho, what will be the dagger that shows we are the only life in the cosmos? Would a trip to one of jupiters moons be enough?

Even if there isn't life on any other planets, we still need to be able to colonize other planets.

[Gurluas]

I don't think you understand how Science work. Science tries to explain how the world works through observations and mathemathical proofs. When there is a hole, you get a hypothesis to try to fill that hole and then get data to confirm said hypothesis. If the data mostly aligns, it's a theory.

There are many theories for how the universe works. String theory, M-theory, etc.
And they have different ways to tackle the issues like Dark matter. Following Science doesn't mean you're zealously set on a specific thing unless it's almost completely proven.
Scientists have to be critical thinkers, who challenge their theories, and are open to different possibilities. (That align with what they've discovered, to use an example why most credible scientists discount the creationist stuff... If you have a ball, you feel it's round, you see it's round. It's stupid then to make a hypothesis saying it's square because it might be.)

Lets assume this "axis of evil" is true, well then, that means there may be a hole in General relativity, maybe we need a different theory or some adjustments to said theory to make it work again? Also an Earth-centered universe is completely ridiculous. The universe has no center according to all established theories and observations.

As for the Thread's subject...This is really fascinating, Proxima centauri is so close that if we develop some of the new propulsions, we can receive data in the next two centuries or so. And if we have to escape Earth it's the closest option for a generational ship to journey there, with advanced propulsions it might take 50 years or so.

I really hope they did find a rocky exoplanet there, for it'd be a monumental discovery. Something to set our sights after.

[May90]

Not 100% sure i am jumping to conclusions tho...

What about an earth centered universe contradicts anything in our current world view? Literally the only thing ive heard that has given me pause is the retrograde motion of the stars, which to be honest i have been told can be explained any number of ways.

Earth-centered Universe doesn't make sense to me, because, according to our current knowledge, the farthest parts of the Universe we can see move away from us at the speed close to the speed of light, and we aren't able to see far into the beyond. For all practical purposes, we can consider our current Universe infinite, and in an infinite space "center" doesn't exist.

Not to mention that this "axis of evil" is no evidence in support of Earth-centered universe theory.

Finally, the Earth IS the center of the Universe in the sense that the observable Universe around Earth is roughly a sphere. It would be a sphere for any observer, living on any planet, simply because they can only observe the Universe around them at a fixed radius, around 14 billion light years.

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Oh, and the biggest one: there is just zero evidence in support of that claim.

[zorkuus]

Not 100% sure i am jumping to conclusions tho...

What about an earth centered universe contradicts anything in our current world view?

No matter where you look from the universe, be it earth or a planet in Andromeda it will look like the heavens revolve around you. This isn't about a contradiction but that there is no argument supported by evidence to be made that we are the center but plenty of evidence to show it is merely an illusion.

[Deleted]

It takes boundless arrogance to think that we are the "center of the Universe", or that we were specifically, purposefully created by something.

[Deleted]

Nice for whatever country is still standing in 300 years and is capable of long distance space travel I guess?

[Fascinate]

Earth-centered Universe doesn't make sense to me, because, according to our current knowledge, the farthest parts of the Universe we can see move away from us at the speed close to the speed of light, and we aren't able to see far into the beyond. For all practical purposes, we can consider our current Universe infinite, and in an infinite space "center" doesn't exist.

Not to mention that this "axis of evil" is no evidence in support of Earth-centered universe theory.

Finally, the Earth IS the center of the Universe in the sense that the observable Universe around Earth is roughly a sphere. It would be a sphere for any observer, living on any planet, simply because they can only observe the Universe around them at a fixed radius, around 14 billion light years.

---

Oh, and the biggest one: there is just zero evidence in support of that claim.

Surprising you would say that because no matter where we look into the universe from an earth based perspective everything is red shifted. Even when hubble first looked out of his telescope he said something like this:

"at first glance you would imagine the earth to be the center of the universe, but that is of course preposterous"

Not an exact quote obviously, but even the FIRST guy to look out thought this.

[zorkuus]

Surprising you would say that because no matter where we look into the universe from an earth based perspective everything is red shifted.

It will look red shifted from any perspective. You missed his point completely.


skip to 9:57

[Malfecto]

Here ya go Fascinate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhA4...A7CD7FD2564042

Your way is really much simpler. How could we have possibly missed this. /s

Let's not even consider actually MOVING your non-Copernican model of our solar system through space, like in this heliocentric model:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU

Align your plane, and brain, to that mate.

[Gurluas]

Surprising you would say that because no matter where we look into the universe from an earth based perspective everything is red shifted. Even when hubble first looked out of his telescope he said something like this:

"at first glance you would imagine the earth to be the center of the universe, but that is of course preposterous"

Not an exact quote obviously, but even the FIRST guy to look out thought this.

You don't really understand do you?
Lemme draw it for you.


Now in this drawing, the universe is a square. The actual universe is infinite but for this example lets keep it simple.
The first tiny dot is Earth, the second is Mars, the big circles is how far we can see from each dot. Now let's take a spaceship to Mars (In this example it's a bit further away)

What the hell? Gasp, Mars is the center of the universe now! It must be Earth's divine twin or something....No.
The thing is simply that due to the Universe's expansion, and the speed it takes light to travel, Light can only reach us from roughly 14 billion years.
No matter where you go in the universe, you'd get the same thing.

Do you get it now?

[Fascinate]

It will look red shifted from any perspective. You missed his point completely.

Right im not making this some kind of proof for a geocentric universe, but it is kind of funny how many hoops people have went through just to write it off...

[FurryRedVixen]

Flat Earth Supporter? -.-

[zorkuus]

Right im not making this some kind of proof for a geocentric universe, but it is kind of funny how many hoops people have went through just to write it off...

These "hoops" we took is established science.

[Fascinate]

You don't really understand do you?
Lemme draw it for you.


Now in this drawing, the universe is a square. The actual universe is infinite but for this example lets keep it simple.
The first tiny dot is Earth, the second is Mars, the big circles is how far we can see from each dot. Now let's take a spaceship to Mars (In this example it's a bit further away)

What the hell? Gasp, Mars is the center of the universe now! It must be Earth's divine twin or something....No.
The thing is simply that due to the Universe's expansion, and the speed it takes light to travel, Light can only reach us from roughly 14 billion years.
No matter where you go in the universe, you'd get the same thing.

Do you get it now?

Now explain to me the CMB data....this wasnt taken from the earth.

[Gurluas]

Now explain to me the CMB data....this wasnt taken from the earth.

I already did, check my post before the example last page. I explained how science works for you. Or you meant the actual CMB, it was taken in Earth's orbit. You need to understand, Earth is REALLY REALLY friggin small, and the universe is humongously huge.
When we look at the "edge" of the universe, we're actually looking 14 billion years in the past, because the light, that travels at the speed of light, takes that long just to reach us.