Could Vol'Jins LOA been KJ?

[Flurryfang]

Last time KJ tricked the Horde by using Ner'Zhul and talk to him as a spirit.
Vol'Jin saw a powerfull vision from the Loa saying that Sylvanas needs to lead.

The Scourge and Forsaken where created by the Lich King a tool made by KJ.

Do you think KJ is alrdy playing the Horde again? and will the Horde atleast confirm if Vol'Jin vision is true this time after last time that all followed Ner'Zhul without confimation.

KJ did not control Ner'zhul in anyway, which explains why he needed illidan to go up to Northrend and kill him. There is no reason at all to believe, that KJ would need the undeads for anything. He has the full might of the Legion on Azeroth atm and i don't think he would need a small army of undead and val'kyrs to maintain victory.

[Cl4nK]

The only fact is that Ner'zhul was gullible and got influenced by his attachment to his wife, along his latent thirst for power. That's why he fell to Kil'jaeden's trick. He believed what he wanted to believe, even though many bells rang about the situation that said "no, this just doesn't make sense".

It's not like "spirits" is the standard way to go for deceit. There's a need of favorable circumstances.

He still used spirits to manipulate Ner'zhul. The reason for Ner'zhul believing or not is another matter completely different. Not to mention that it wasn't only Ner'zhul that it was manipulated, but almost every single shaman. Ner'zhul was just the most popular one.

[Zulkhan]

And I'd bet a shiny copper that almost every person that's dismissing the theory and trying to paint Silvanas as a flawless leader are also Garrosh fanboys.

And we could likewise argue that everyone believing this is someone who certainly wants Sylvanas to fill a boss spot.

I couldn't care less about Sylvanas herself, but this sounds as bad as "Jaina is a Dreadlord".

[Wolfheart9]

The only fact is that Ner'zhul was gullible and got influenced by his attachment to his wife, along his latent thirst for power. That's why he fell to Kil'jaeden's trick. He believed what he wanted to believe, even though many bells rang about the situation that said "no, this just doesn't make sense".

It's not like "spirits" is the standard way to go for deceit. There's a need of favorable circumstances.

Where did I say it was a standard? This is you grasping at straws. The fact is he has done it once before, which means he could do it again.

You want to talk about things saying it doesn't make sense, why would the wild gods promote someone that focuses on undeath? Why would they promote someone that has scarred lands and gone against the Horde's leadership?

One theory is just as valid as another until we have the answer from Blizz.

And we could likewise argue that everyone believing this is someone who certainly wants Sylvanas to fill a boss spot.

I couldn't care less about Sylvanas herself, but this sounds as bad as "Jaina is a Dreadlord".

Don't want her in a boss spot, so already wrong there. Jaina being a Dreadlord has NOTHING to back it up, this actually has a shred of possibility, because if there is nothing going on? This is the story telling equivalent of 'A wizard did it', there is NO reason for him to make Silvanas Warchief, and even states so flat out, but 'a loa told me to do it' makes it fine.

[Zulkhan]

He still used spirits to manipulate Ner'zhul. The reason for Ner'zhul believing or not is another matter completely different.

Point is, it's not like you can pretend to be a "spirit" and safely deceive people. Many circumstances are necessary for the deceit. And in Ner'zhul's case, we had a fully grasp of why he fell to such a trick.

In Vol'jin's case, favorable circumstances seem lacking. Especially since the decision to put Sylvanas in charge probably came from Vol'jin's himself, by simply judging the insight he got and what was necessary to move events towards such vision. It's not even clear if "dey whisper a name" was actually referred to Sylvanas. Maybe Sylvanas' appointment is merely a mean to an end.

Let's face it, this theory is on the same level of "Jaina is a Dreadlord in disguise", an attempted rationalization of a story development they don't accept, understand or like.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Or

'I'll have the one Horde leader that works against the grain of the rest, that has shown multiple times to throw any form of loyalty or morality aside to get what she wants, and is the current hate-target of the Alliance to cause as much strife as possible'

Except for the part that in darkest times she did non of that and saved everyones ass. This theory would have held weight if Sylvnaas hadn't changed.

[Xkiller9000]

Sylvanas is a capable leader, but shes a backstabbing asshat who definitely has something up her sleeve. Thrall wouldve been the best option, followed by Baine or Lor'Themar

[Wolfheart9]

Point is, it's not like you can pretend to be a "spirit" and safely deceive people. Many circumstances are necessary for the deceit. And in Ner'zhul's case, we had a fully grasp of why he fell to such a trick.

In Vol'jin's case, favorable circumstances seem lacking. Especially since the decision to put Sylvanas in charge probably came from Vol'jin's himself, by simply judging the insight he got and what was necessary to move events towards such vision. It's not even clear if "dey whisper a name" was actually referred to Sylvanas. Maybe Sylvanas' appointment is merely a mean to an end.

Let's face it, this theory is on the same level of "Jaina is a Dreadlord in disguise", an attempted rationalization of a story development they don't accept, understand or like.

Yea, having fel poison running through your whole body and on the edge of death certainly wouldn't impair the judgement of a spiritual individual who has the weight of a faction on his shoulders to appoint a new leader. No chance of that being a thing.

Saying 'a loa told me to' is bad writing, and it's insulting to Silvanas. I want her to 'earn' the seat.

- - - Updated - - -

Except for the part that in darkest times she did non of that and saved everyones ass. This theory would have held weight if Sylvnaas hadn't changed.

Yes, blowing a horn on orders of the Warchief to retreat. He could of also been saying that the loa told him she would be the one to save them all.

[Deleted]

I really wish Vol'jin had pointed out that Sylvanas was by far the most qualified person in tht room to become Warchief. Instead we get "Spirits told me so" which is..abit silly.

But lets look at the candidates:

Sylvanas: Has by far the most combat experience of the lot. Fought Trolls, Scourge, Demons and The Alliance. Oranized more succesful military campaigns than the rest of the candidates combined. Has a great deal of personal power and ways to escape death itself. Oh and the only person with experience fighting the Legion, 3 times. Dreadlord Brothers, Undercity Invasion, Broken Shore.

Baine: While hes a good diplomat with good ties to especially Anduin, how much combat experience and with leading does he have?

Lor'themar: Served as Sylvanas second in command in the Rangers, to see him outranking her now would be strange.

Gallywix: Lol.

[Wolfheart9]

I really wish Vol'jin had pointed out that Sylvanas was by far the most qualified person in tht room to become Warchief. Instead we get "Spirits told me so" which is..abit silly.

But lets look at the candidates:

Sylvanas: Has by far the most combat experience of the lot. Fought Trolls, Scourge, Demons and The Alliance. Oranized more succesful military campaigns than the rest of the candidates combined. Has a great deal of personal power and ways to escape death itself. Oh and the only person with experience fighting the Legion, 3 times. Dreadlord Brothers, Undercity Invasion, Broken Shore.

Baine: While hes a good diplomat with good ties to especially Anduin, how much combat experience and with leading does he have?

Lor'themar: Served as Sylvanas second in command in the Rangers, to see him outranking her now would be strange.

Gallywix: Lol.

Yea, to clarify things I don't mind her being Warchief, I just want her to earn the rank instead of 'lawl spirits said so'

Also, Saurfang/Gammon for Warchief

[AwkwardSquirtle]

Sylvanas is a capable leader, but shes a backstabbing asshat who definitely has something up her sleeve. Thrall wouldve been the best option, followed by Baine or Lor'Themar

Thrall sounds like he's a mess in the Shaman Order Hall, he's in no condition to lead.
Lor'themar has no Horde loyalty, he considered leaving during MoP, he's as much part of the Horde for convenience as Sylvanas, and Sylvanas is a more experienced warleader.
Baine's experience is more limited again, and while he'd do a better job in peace time, we are at war for the planet.
Single minded determination to destroy your enemy is what Sylvanas does best, and it's exactly what we need when the Legion are here.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yes, blowing a horn on orders of the Warchief to retreat. He could of also been saying that the loa told him she would be the one to save them all.

She didnt have to save anyone, or put any val'kyr at risk. But she did.

[Adoxe]

They can if they want to, and besides, you don't need to cut your eyes out either as DH. They do it because the visions they receive are usually too much, not to mention that their senses are boosted to eleven.



Using Fel Magic doens't make you a demon hunter, as is the case with Warlocks.



You can literally create a Demon Hunter with no tattoos.

~

You can literally create a Demon Hunter without horns, there's no Hooves either.

You can create a DH with no tattoos for gameplay purposes as not everyone might be a fan of them. There's no Demon Hunters without tattoos in lore, never has been and never will be because their tattoos give them powers. DH's DO have to cut their eyes out, please read Illidan novel before spewing bullshit. Hooves/Horns were heavily associated with Metamorphosis until Legion, now it's just Hooves that are. And again, gameplay purposes. Shadow Hunters are very far from being Demon Hunters. VERY far.

[Wolfheart9]

She didnt have to save anyone, or put any val'kyr at risk. But she did.

Yea, she could of just let the whole Horde die and then died herself later because there's now no leadership on her side.

So heroic.

[Cl4nK]

Point is, it's not like you can pretend to be a "spirit" and safely deceive people. Many circumstances are necessary for the deceit. And in Ner'zhul's case, we had a fully grasp of why he fell to such a trick.

In Vol'jin's case, favorable circumstances seem lacking. Especially since the decision to put Sylvanas in charge probably came from Vol'jin's himself, by simply judging the insight he got and what was necessary to move events towards such vision. It's not even clear if "dey whisper a name" was actually referred to Sylvanas. Maybe Sylvanas' appointment is merely a mean to an end.

Let's face it, this theory is on the same level of "Jaina is a Dreadlord in disguise", an attempted rationalization of a story development they don't accept, understand or like.

I get what you're saying. I for one don't think this is the case either, but for the sake of the argument. It's just that KJ did it before, and he certainly can do it again, and what the motives Ner'zhul or anyone had for believingis completely irrelevant to the case.

If anything, I'd say the circumstances are even more favorable. Vol'jin is dying, with a fel energy wound fucking him up, to the point where he is even going blind and his very skin is fucked up. What time is more favorable for a false vision than exactly at your death bed, caused by Fel damage?

And I got exactly the other vibe from it, Vol'jin, if he had to chose, would choose anyone over Sylvannas. If he had not received the Visions, I'd wager he would pick either Baine or Lothemar over her.

[Wolfheart9]

Thrall sounds like he's a mess in the Shaman Order Hall, he's in no condition to lead.
Lor'themar has no Horde loyalty, he considered leaving during MoP, he's as much part of the Horde for convenience as Sylvanas, and Sylvanas is a more experienced warleader.
Baine's experience is more limited again, and while he'd do a better job in peace time, we are at war for the planet.
Single minded determination to destroy your enemy is what Sylvanas does best, and it's exactly what we need when the Legion are here.

Yea, single minded determination to destroy the Legion, which is why she's making Plague to use on the Alliance during the fight on the Broken Isles.

...

Oh wait..

[Eazy]

Make Vol'Jin give the leadership to the Horde's most capable military commander. Great plan, KJ. 10/10.

Of course it wasn't Kil'Jaedan

Lol'd.

OT:
I think that they were just loa... You know, the old spirits etc.

No, that wouldn't make a sense if Kil'jaeden would do that.

[Soulfighter101]

The only other possible leader would be Lor'themar Theron, and he's not allowed to have story so it's Sylvannas for now

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yea, single minded determination to destroy the Legion, which is why she's making Plague to use on the Alliance during the fight on the Broken Isles.

...

Oh wait..

The Alliance attacked first.

[Wolfheart9]

Lol'd.

OT:
I think that they were just loa... You know, the old spirits etc.

No, that wouldn't make a sense if Kil'jaeden would do that.

It makes sense that old gods that thrive off of nature would support an undead being that corrupts the land, but doesn't make sense that someone known as 'The Deceiver' would use deception? Uh huh.