So right now in beta how is Arcane compared to Fire?

[Deleted]

If a difference is consistently 5%, Patchwerk stats might start being unimportant compared to the mechanics of a spec. e.g. people slowly started moving towards Arcane from frost in HFC - before it was well ahead of DPS - because of the utility of single target on-demand damage and better control in some cases. In this case fire is a very convenient spec to start the expansion with because of the low effort it has to do decent AOE and single target simultaneously, so even if the difference was 0% it would be very hard to convince people to chance spec for 5mans or early raiding.

[Synadrasa]

Unless you are a cutting edge mythic raider, there is completely no reason not to play a spec you like, in my openion.

People really need to stop making comments like this in every thread. Some specs perform better no matter what level of play you're at and that's a fact.

[Gorgodeus]

Unless you are a cutting edge mythic raider, there is completely no reason not to play a spec you like, in my openion.

I get so tired of people spouting this nonsense. It does not matter whether you are "cutting edge" or "top world guild". No matter what guild you raid with, you want to play the best spec for progression reasons.

[nickseng]

I get so tired of people spouting this nonsense. It does not matter whether you are "cutting edge" or "top world guild". No matter what guild you raid with, you want to play the best spec for progression reasons.

I get so tired of people spouting these nonsense. If you're in a guild that prioritizes fun and enjoyment, you're allowed to play whatever spec you want. Sure, you'd be months behind other guilds, but they weren't keeping track in the first place.

[Gorgodeus]

I get so tired of people spouting these nonsense. If you're in a guild that prioritizes fun and enjoyment, you're allowed to play whatever spec you want. Sure, you'd be months behind other guilds, but they weren't keeping track in the first place.

So, in other words, a guild that does not care to progress in raiding. Sorry, but we are talking about the 99% that do.

[Lioo]

People really need to stop making comments like this in every thread. Some specs perform better no matter what level of play you're at and that's a fact.

They sure do. Still some people have fun in this game playing exactly frost mage or exactly fire mage or w/e mage, no matter how they perform. They do not care about dps meteres, they are just having fun casting frostbolts/firebolts/arcane missles/what ever.

I get so tired of people spouting this nonsense. It does not matter whether you are "cutting edge" or "top world guild". No matter what guild you raid with, you want to play the best spec for progression reasons.

If you care about progression, does not mean any one do.

[nickseng]

So, in other words, a guild that does not care to progress in raiding. Sorry, but we are talking about the 99% that do.

Which is fine, except you implied that *every* guild does.

Not everyone plays the same way you do. Also, I'd argue that way less than 99% of the guild cares about progression. If anything, it's the other way around.

[Gorgodeus]

Which is fine, except you implied that *every* guild does.

Not everyone plays the same way you do. Also, I'd argue that way less than 99% of the guild cares about progression. If anything, it's the other way around.

99% of raid guilds do care about progression. The one's that don't are probably not true raid guilds but just casual screw around guilds. You stated that "unless you are in a cutting edge raid guild", which is total BS.

[Rythme]

Most raiding guilds will care about progression but it does not always follow that the top simming dps spec is required for all members. Immediate caveat here is that I'm talking about reasonable differences here so between the 5-10% margin of maximum output. If there is a drastic difference in performance then the higher spec will always be preferred.

Caveat aside small and even medium differences in output don't really matter to the vast majority of players as quite simply most players "myself included" are unlikely to be constrained by the specs potential as much as their personal ability. Now thats not saying most folks are bad but for the output caps of different specs to matter then the player in question has to be hitting max dps on both very consistantly and that just doesn't happen regularly (otherwise top end mythic guilds and world firsts ect would not be anywhere near as big a thing).

In these instances its fine to play what you enjoy/are better at as your personal best dps could very easily come from a spec that on paper is slightly worse.

[Krazzorx]

If a difference is consistently 5%, Patchwerk stats might start being unimportant compared to the mechanics of a spec. e.g. people slowly started moving towards Arcane from frost in HFC - before it was well ahead of DPS - because of the utility of single target on-demand damage and better control in some cases. In this case fire is a very convenient spec to start the expansion with because of the low effort it has to do decent AOE and single target simultaneously, so even if the difference was 0% it would be very hard to convince people to chance spec for 5mans or early raiding.

There's something to be said though for greater invis. Not 100% sure if EN has a mechanic like dropping aim that it can be abused but....

[Dracovian]

So as of now Fire makes playing Arcane a big nerf on potential dps?

[GT4]

Correct me if I'm wrong on anything here (have been playing beta somewhat inconsistently) but from what I've seen, fire seems to be the mechanically superior spec in most cases.
You have superior mobility and cleave. Your AoE output is comparable but at range instead of short range. Burst DPS is very comparable with how strong RoP + combustion + phoenix/fb/pyro rota is. You have fewer mechanics that you cannot always utilize such as evocation's nuke. The only big benefit I see for arcane mechanically is that damage is applied instantly so you're better off for quick target swaps and very low HP adds.
With all of those mechanical differences, Arcane would really have to outperform Fire for patchwerk fights (as has traditionally often been the case) for it to be worth playing in an environment where you have a limited amount of artifact power to distribute.

[LaplaceNoMa]

To Lioo and nickseng, have a look in the mirror:

[Deleted]

I agree that arcane has to be ahead of fire/frost to be the go to spec. Fire is just easier to pull off. Arcane might be on par when you can plan everything ahead, but that is really hard, especially as mythic+ is big part of gear progression.

[Cebel]

i get so tired of people spouting these nonsense. If you're in a guild that prioritizes fun and enjoyment, you're allowed to play whatever spec you want. Sure, you'd be months behind other guilds, but they weren't keeping track in the first place.

cool man! Breaking fucking news people like playing the best spec and performing as well as they possibly can! Heres a fucking idea! Stfu!

[Krazzorx]

I'd say for many people, there's not a ton of difference in enjoyment between the 3 specs so next choice is what's better.

[Dizzeeyooo]

I'd say for many people, there's not a ton of difference in enjoyment between the 3 specs so next choice is what's better.

amen to that after the legion pruning

[Torian kel]

I'd say for many people, there's not a ton of difference in enjoyment between the 3 specs so next choice is what's better.

I have lost my soul to progression years and years ago, so I don't have "fun" on my mage anymore, I'm only focused on "numbers", regardless of spec. I used frost in MC, I used fire in BT, etc etc. With that said, with this new version of fire, I'm having nice "numbers", but I'm actually having fun, something I haven't felt in years. I have good aoe, good single target damage, great mobility, great burst, spells feel satisfying to throw, I love the fire effects, I mean literally everything about the spec is awesome (Except the lack of GI ... RIP). So why on earth did Blizzard give everything to this spec ? #Allspecmatters

[nickseng]

So your argument to my points that not ALL guilds enforce playing the numerically best spec is to tell me to shut up? Or exaggerate my point with that childish pic.

Real mature guys, and way to argue a point. :/

[Nitros14]

After the flame patch nerf it looks to me that arcane explosion and resonance outperforms fire on stuff like Spellblade Aluriel's arcane phase adds in Nighthold, or Krosus adds and a few other fights?