Could Vol'Jins LOA been KJ?

[Mehrunes]

Before someone else shoots me with the "YOU'RE NOT ADMITTING IT" gun, YES it's a possibility, just one extremely unlikely to be with pretty much nothing to back it up. It's not really up in chances more than Jaina being a Dreadlord, especially during these times where the Legion is everywhere corrupting everything.

You tried and still failed. You are not admitting that the likelihood of this possibility could possibly be much higher or that you can possibly be wrong. Cover all angles mon.

She just made a terrible leadership decision that resulted in the death of the Alliances leader, don't get me wrong, I would rather she was incompetent than evil but she's supposed to be a ranger general FFS.

There's no direct cause and effect link between Sylvanas sounding retreat and Varian dying. If anything the fact that Horde's support vanishing caused the Alliance to retreat earlier led to Alliance leadership not getting smashed to bits by the Fel Reaver meteor while they were still on the ground.

[Zulkhan]

The weapon is meant to be thrown its in the damn design.

Considered that you started this by saying "what makes Shadow Hunters different from Demon Hunters is the first throwing glaives" the supposed purpose of the glaive's design does nothing to prove your point.

She just made a terrible leadership decision that resulted in the death of the Alliances leader

What? How retreating from a guranteed massacre was a terrible leadership decision? Jaina blaming the Horde for Varian's death is nothing but her blindfolded narrative.

And is not even like the decision came from Sylvanas, she reluctantly executed an order.

[Cl4nK]

Go read Vol'jin novel. Then go read Illidan novel. Shadow Hunters and Demon hunters are nothing alike.

And please, where did I say anywhere in this thread they are? Matter of fact, where did I in this whole thread even say the word Shadow hunter?

This thread is going back and forth like crazy.

[Zulkhan]

You tried and still failed. You are not admitting that the likelihood of this possibility could possibly be much higher or that you can possibly be wrong. Cover all angles mon.

Have mercy plox, I'm still in training with this shit.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Sylvanas isn't exactly a heroic character. However, if Sylvanas decided to stay until everyone died, the Horde leadership and stuff would of been wiped out. I do not blame her for what she had to do in that situation. She did the right thing which I wasn't expecting to happen. Jaina and the rest of the Alliance being upset at the Horde only know their side of the story and big shocker(not really) they blame the Horde.

I'm sure if Jaina and the rest of the Alliance knew what was going on Horde side, they would react differently.

[caervek]

You act like the same thing wouldn't have happened if the horde stayed guldan would have still called down that thing, and the demons would have crushed the horde on the ridge. Sylvanas did the only thing she could do and save her own faction

Se had multiple better options, I.E she could have had some of her forces take the wounded to the ships and leave then fought a retreat to the alliance group to stand as one, most likely not just averting Varian's death but resulting in Guldan's.

I really like Sylv but she basically threw the game for her team.

[Varitok]

Lol, Sylvanas has never been a warmonger. And the alliance starts this shit. Your whole theory falls apart because you grossly misunderstand Sylvanas. If she was as evil as everyone claims the broken shore would have been much worse.

Forcefully raising the dead humans to serve her, invading gilneas, Using the plague against the gilneans and the residents of southshore when told not too by Garrosh.

Stop fanboying for her, there is a few examples on how she is a warmonger and a genocidal maniac. She's so badly written.

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Sylvanas being "warmonger against the Alliance" is mere speculation, and the cinematic implies otherwise (she rally the Horde to claim vengeance against the Legion for Vol'jin's death). On the other hand:

Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Have you forgotten the Horde's treachery? It's time to bring them to heel like the dogs they are!
Prophet Velen says: To fight two wars at once would be folly. For all our sakes, we need the Horde's strength added to our own.
Anduin Wrynn says: Velen is right. We must stand beside the demon hunters and focus on the Legion. Now is not the time to--
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: The Horde betrayed your father and left us to die! To fight alongside those cowards would dishonor everything he stood for.
Prophet Velen says: My people know the price of facing demons as a world divided. It is time to unite our forces and defend our lands.
Anduin Wrynn says: Agreed. I'm sorry, Jaina, but vengeance must wait. I trust you're mobilizing the Kirin Tor as we discussed?
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Dalaran will help protect the Eastern Kingdoms, but I will NOT allow the Horde to set foot within my city
Anduin Wrynn says: We must not splinter like this... not now. Please, Jaina!
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: You disappoint me, King of Stormwind. But sooner or later, you will see the truth. You all will!

Jaina being "warmonger against the Horde" is a fact already proven.

Again, if the grand plan of the Legion was to cause faction attriction, manipulating events to push Jaina in charge of the Alliance would blatantly achieve greater and guaranteed results (let alone there's barely any need of that with Angry Genn on loose).

I didn't say Jaina wasn't a warmonger. Again, I'm saying SHE'S a warmonger too. Also, the legions plan is clearly to make Genn the High King of the Alliance to further his hate towards the horde and make them war against each other. Its not really speculation if you take into account how many atrocities shes committed, she's not well written as a character and they are gonna try to make people sympathetic to her even though she's done such horrible things.

[FertsBlert]

Forcefully raising the dead humans to serve her, invading gilneas, Using the plague against the gilneans and the residents of southshore when told not too by Garrosh.

Stop fanboying for her, there is a few examples on how she is a warmonger and a genocidal maniac. She's so badly written.

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I didn't say Jaina wasn't a warmonger. Again, I'm saying SHE'S a warmonger too. Also, the legions plan is clearly to make Genn the High King of the Alliance to further his hate towards the horde and make them war against each other. Its not really speculation if you take into account how many atrocities shes committed, she's not well written as a character and they are gonna try to make people sympathetic to her even though she's done such horrible things.

There are only two leaders on EITHER side who haven't "done such horrible things" and that is Anduin and Baine, doing horrible things because you must is part and parcel of leadership in this sort of setting.

It's encouraging that her first act as warchief is to focus the Horde on the threat that WILL end all life on the planet rather than those other dudes who have done bad shit but you know they aren't demons and not trying to destroy the planet we're standing on.

Jaina will go off the deep end again and cause a secondary war because she can. Genn is a loose cannon I call him going off on his own to start shit with the Horde as well the line "call your dog to heel" will be used by someone.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Forcefully raising the dead humans to serve her, invading gilneas, Using the plague against the gilneans and the residents of southshore when told not too by Garrosh.

Stop fanboying for her, there is a few examples on how she is a warmonger and a genocidal maniac. She's so badly written.

Look at these EXAMPLES!!!

*proceeds to show no examples other than shitty opinion and misinformation*

Sylvanas was forced into Gilnaes by Garrosh. The Horde GAVE the Forsaken a Blight they deemed ok to use, Garrosh never said anything about southshore.


"shes so badly written"

-every butt-hurt person out there that had their feelings hurt by Sylvanas. If shes badly written, then you can bet everyone else is too.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This isn't about Sylvanas but go ahead and deny what she's done in a thread not about her.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Wait.. This new conspiracy theory that KJ wants Sylvanas on the throne is not about Sylvanas?

It are people posting idiotic theories because they are blinded by hatred for her.

I'll clarify, this thread isn't about Sylvanas and what's she's done and such.

[Varitok]

There are only two leaders on EITHER side who haven't "done such horrible things" and that is Anduin and Baine, doing horrible things because you must is part and parcel of leadership in this sort of setting.

It's encouraging that her first act as warchief is to focus the Horde on the threat that WILL end all life on the planet rather than those other dudes who have done bad shit but you know they aren't demons and not trying to destroy the planet we're standing on.

Jaina will go off the deep end again and cause a secondary war because she can. Genn is a loose cannon I call him going off on his own to start shit with the Horde as well the line "call your dog to heel" will be used by someone.

The problem is that her character is crap, Her going "warchief!" when vol'jin is stabbed is out of character, if they want to make her a good guy and "She didnt do nothin!" then make it more of a gradual change of ideology not just a sudden shift.

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Look at these EXAMPLES!!!

*proceeds to show no examples other than shitty opinion and misinformation*

Sylvanas was forced into Gilnaes by Garrosh. The Horde GAVE the Forsaken a Blight they deemed ok to use, Garrosh never said anything about southshore.


"shes so badly written"

-every butt-hurt person out there that had their feelings hurt by Sylvanas. If shes badly written, then you can bet everyone else is too.

Wow, you truly don't know how to argue, just call them shitty and move on.

Also, the horde didn't give anyone the plague, watch this, https://youtu.be/aIqEH4v_tMY

Totally seems like Garrosh wanted her to use the plague and infact gave it to her! He clearly wants her to use it on southshore too!

"if she's badly written then they all are."

Thinly veiled fanboy, nothing less. There is no "shitty opinions or misinformation" I based it on facts. Like who you want but don't pretend she isn't evil.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Wow, you truly don't know how to argue, just call them shitty and move on.

Because it is shit, you base everything you said off your lack of information

Also, the horde didn't give anyone the plague, watch this, https://youtu.be/aIqEH4v_tMY

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=26992/agony-abounds
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Forsaken_Forward_Command

Next time, do some actual research. The Blight used in Gilnaes was not the Blight Garrosh Forbade.

Thinly veiled fanboy, nothing less. There is no "shitty opinions or misinformation" I based it on facts. Like who you want but don't pretend she isn't evil.

The guy spewing his headcanon as fact and making it quite clear he cant manage to look up some basic shit because it would go against his argument calls me a fanboy?
You literally left out the part where they weren't using the "real" blight. Your "facts" conviently leave out half the story and your entire argument is mess because once again, A Sylvanas hater can't bring themselves to use facts and go straight to "SHES EVIL I HATE HER"

Did sylvanas know the blight given to her by the Horde would be beyond shit? No. Doesnt change the fact that the Horde gave them Blight to use.

[FertsBlert]

The problem is that her character is crap, Her going "warchief!" when vol'jin is stabbed is out of character, if they want to make her a good guy and "She didnt do nothin!" then make it more of a gradual change of ideology not just a sudden shift.

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Wow, you truly don't know how to argue, just call them shitty and move on.

Also, the horde didn't give anyone the plague, watch this, https://youtu.be/aIqEH4v_tMY

Totally seems like Garrosh wanted her to use the plague and infact gave it to her! He clearly wants her to use it on southshore too!

"if she's badly written then they all are."

Thinly veiled fanboy, nothing less. There is no "shitty opinions or misinformation" I based it on facts. Like who you want but don't pretend she isn't evil.

I don't see them as wanting to "make her a good guy" really (one thing I like about WoW is the grey morality in a lot of cases), she like everyone else expected an easy victory when they went to the Broken Shores her words to Varian show that "Less chatting Wrynn, just kill him already". She and everyone else there expected to waltz in and clean up a minor demon incursion what they found was a meat grinder that took their forces and chewed them up, that sort of a shock could be enough to cause a rapid shift in ideology. No-one can deny that Sylvanas has always been extremely efficient, in fact downright brutal in looking out for her own, she saw her fellow leaders fall she is the only one in good enough order to make certain that the Horde survives.

For all that she has put her own Forsaken first up until now, the realisation that this enemy will destroy everyone and everything and is doing so with ease, she knows the value of her fellow leaders and they are being handled like chumps, may have led to an epiphany that without the Horde her own will not be enough to stave off utter destruction and she has no desire to go there at all. The Horde as a whole need to meet this or the true death will follow for all.

[Zulkhan]

Se had multiple better options, I.E she could have had some of her forces take the wounded to the ships and leave then fought a retreat to the alliance group to stand as one, most likely not just averting Varian's death but resulting in Guldan's.

Are you suggesting Sylvanas should have come back to favor the Alliance's own retreat (even though they had no need of Horde's help to retreat and Sylvanas' support wasn't going to change a thing against the Fel Reaver) or that Horde and Alliance could have realistically been able to face the Legion's forces and even kill Gul'dan? Because I guarantee you there was no way Gul'dan was going to die, covered by trillions of demons as he was. And it's not like the demons up the cliff that forced the Horde to retreat suddenly disappeared. Hell, you see them coming altogether over that cliff and right after seeing them, Varian shrugs all doubts off and orders a retreat as well.

I didn't say Jaina wasn't a warmonger. Again, I'm saying SHE'S a warmonger too.

This is not about people's characters, is about people's goals. Jaina fully expressed the desire to start shit with the Horde, where Sylvanas shown no desire to do the same with the Alliance.

Also, the legions plan is clearly to make Genn the High King of the Alliance to further his hate towards the horde and make them war against each other.

So you come up with an unsubstantiated theory to support another equally unsubstantiated? Because there's absolutely nothing hinting any plan of the Legion to place Genn as "High King", much like there isn't for Jaina or Sylvanas. It's all a huge lot of baseless speculation with no back up.

Its not really speculation if you take into account how many atrocities shes committed, she's not well written as a character and they are gonna try to make people sympathetic to her even though she's done such horrible things.

Here's a news: ruthless isn't synonim of warmonger. Aka, Sylvanas being "awful" does not guarantee alone any warmongering against the Alliance. What implies warmongering desires towards the opposite faction are, well, expressed desires to start shit with the opposite faction. On that front, both Genn and Jaina shown this rather strong desire, something that cannot be said about Sylvanas, no matter how much spinning people attempts.

[Deleted]

I predicted that this thread would appear sooner or later and honestly, it's not farfetched. Sylvanas' choice as Warchief brings conflict among the Azerothians, something that the Legion strives upon.

[Zulkhan]

I predicted that this thread would appear sooner or later and honestly, it's not farfetched. Sylvanas' choice as Warchief brings conflict among the Azerothians, something that the Legion strives upon.

It would probably be more believable if "a demon did it" wasn't the cheapest excuse for every development or character's change of the last decade. Even Xe'ra is apparently Kil'jaeden now, when it could simply be Xe'ra being a dick.

[Varitok]

Are you suggesting Sylvanas should have come back to favor the Alliance's own retreat (even though they had no need of Horde's help to retreat and Sylvanas' support wasn't going to change a thing against the Fel Reaver) or that Horde and Alliance could have realistically been able to face the Legion's forces and even kill Gul'dan? Because I guarantee you there was no way Gul'dan was going to die, covered by trillions of demons as he was. And it's not like the demons up the cliff that forced the Horde to retreat suddenly disappeared. Hell, you see them coming altogether over that cliff and right after seeing them, Varian shrugs all doubts off and orders a retreat as well.



This is not about people's characters, is about people's goals. Jaina fully expressed the desire to start shit with the Horde, where Sylvanas shown no desire to do the same with the Alliance.



So you come up with an unsubstantiated theory to support another equally unsubstantiated? Because there's absolutely nothing hinting any plan of the Legion to place Genn as "High King", much like there isn't for Jaina or Sylvanas. It's all a huge lot of baseless speculation with no back up.



Here's a news: ruthless isn't synonim of warmonger. Aka, Sylvanas being "awful" does not guarantee alone any warmongering against the Alliance. What implies warmongering desires towards the opposite faction are, well, expressed desires to start shit with the opposite faction. On that front, both Genn and Jaina shown this rather strong desire, something that cannot be said about Sylvanas, no matter how much spinning people attempts.

All this shit is Unsubstantiated, its a fucking theory. What isn't unsubsantiated is her constant need to replenish her ranks with fresh undead, She is a warmonger and a mass murderer. Using the Plague when ordered not too and destroying whole encampments (southshore) of innocents. She is terribly written and they are trying to make her seem good, to abolish all her sins. You can go ahead and keep calling Genn and Jaina warmongers all you want because I never once denied it. Just because she didn't murderer innocents in one cutscene doesn't mean she didn't want war as bad as anyone before that. I'll never understand people who think Sylvanas is a good , well written character.

Also, its said that Greymane and Sylvanas are at war over the Wardens towers scattered around the Broke Isles. She totally doesn't want to fight.

[Friendlyimmolation]

What isn't unsubsantiated is her constant need to replenish her ranks with fresh undead,

A counter to the Alliance unsubstantiated claim to lordaeron

is a warmonger

you need a dictionary.

and a mass murderer

killing combatants in war is not murder.

Using the Plague when ordered not too

using the blight the Horde provided.

and destroying whole encampments (southshore) of innocents.

You know, aside from the fact that they were aiding the Alliance and the Stormpike in attempts to take over Lordaeron. Totally innocent.

She is terribly written

"take muh opinions seriously!"

Just because she didn't murderer innocents in one cutscene doesn't mean she didn't want war as bad as anyone before that

"who needs reasoning when I can pull points out of my ass with no proof?"

I'll never understand people who think Sylvanas is a good , well written character.

I'll never understand peoples rage and hysterical lore bending and lying in an attempt to make Sylvanas the villain they think she is. Take a chill pill.