Vol'jin making Sylvanas warchief over Baine, Saurfang and Lor'themar is pretty stupid

[Maxilian]

She'll stop at nothing to achieve her goals. Her goals go before the goals of the Horde. It might work now, but if there's ever a time where she has to choose between herself or the Horde, she'll always choose herself.

Well... you know... that's like the intro of Sylvanas for Legion...

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/legion/#characters

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That said ...

1. At the Wrathgate Valimathras and Putress betrayed her..

Fair point

2. She still continues to "purge" the living from Lorderon (Genocidal much)

Well... Genocidal for the Alliance? yes, but for the Horde, she's just killing their enemies.

3. Most of her closest allies are only "Arrows in her Quiver" and being seen as such makes her hated

Point (But now they are a shield but meehh - concept don't change that much -)

4. She turns on Kolitra Deathweaver for simply talking with a fellow member of the Ebon Blade that just gave them Anderhol. She is manipulative and paranoid.

I think you're putting in a good light Koltira's action, basically because he was being friendly with the enemy, he was losing the fight, because he was friend with the other general, many forsaken lives where lost, and that's basically treason, normally that would have been paid with execution.

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Wow woops, didn't mean to trigger you. But hey, I don't need 2 paragraphs to explain why everything you just said was delusional bullshit, saying Rey was not a mary sue is just being in denial. It's always fun to watch people project themselves.
"Sylvanas being covered up was an artistic decision" Yeah, except the one of the developers or art lead's daughter started playing the game and she is a feminist.

Why is Rey a Mary Sue? she did nothing more than what Luke did, its Luke a Mary Sue?

[Kazuchika]

What was even dumber was making Vol'jin warchief in the first place considering his accomplishments included liberating an island from a lvl 8 mob, getting stabbed in the neck, sitting in Orgrimmar doing seemingly fuck all and then getting ran through by some fel guard foot soldier.

[Deleted]

dude, how many threads do you create a day. And why are all of them salty? Also nice spoiler alert in title.

OT: Why no goblin warchief?

Also, RIP Vol'Jin. Basically the last living troll character. Who the hell is left? Who is leading the darkspears now?

Not really a spoiler its been out on live for over a week now. if you haven't experienced it then that's on you

[Deleted]

Dunno if this was said already but: Every other "option" hasn't had nearly as much experience leading. She was a General before she dies, after this she was the leader of the forsaken. Lor'themar was her second in command, Baine is still new as a leader of the tauren. Saurfang would maybe have the potential to be the leader, but he can be a much needed help at the front.

Also: Everyone now watches Sylvanas, she has to be careful with whatever she tries.

[Lastlivingsoul]

Well... Genocidal for the Alliance? yes, but for the Horde, she's just killing their enemies.

Being Human/Alive doesn't automatically mean you belong to another country or their ideology. Those were still citizens of Lorderon you kill every time you march into a pumpkin farm and killed the inhabitants. Its ethnic cleansing plain and simple. Blizzard needs to change that about the Forsaken to some degree. Even Kel'Thuzad had living acolytes and necromancers under him, so the Scourge was less evil than the Forsaken by comparison.

I think you're putting in a good light Koltira's action, basically because he was being friendly with the enemy, he was losing the fight, because he was friend with the other general, many forsaken lives where lost, and that's basically treason, normally that would have been paid with execution.

The fight was against the Scourge and the Ebon Blade and the Hearthglen were all on the same side. Attacking her own side for collaborating against a greater enemy is stupid and petty. The two class order were supposed to be cooperaing against the Scourge presence in Anderhol. What would she do if she walked into the Ebon Hold or Lights Hope Chapel seeing Deathknights or Horde Paladins working together? The Deathknights still have to free Kolitra from Sylvannas in the campaign so she is still a risk to your class order in the end.

The warning we were given from the beginning is still valid. Do not trust your leaders this expansion.

[Rainsorrow]

you know what I find the saddest part about arguing about why he didn't chose Baine? when the comments on it is "because he did nothing important" and similar to this one and I (and some of you too) think he could do something...if blizzard decided to finally get him into something, anything, and not make him another background character again and again...just look on the cinematics, both of them, and what baine does there
-stare into sky
-help thrall

-look on sylvanas
-look sad
-help transport dead body

or even on past cinematics, like SoO ending one (I don't even think he was anywhere else)
-stare
-kneel
-stare


if he ever have a chance to prove himself, blizzard must first stop planting popular heroes everywhere and give him spotlight
also sorry if I sound derpy here

[Maxilian]

Being Human/Alive doesn't automatically mean you belong to another country or their ideology. Those were still citizens of Lorderon you kill every time you march into a pumpkin farm and killed the inhabitants. Its ethnic cleansing plain and simple. Blizzard needs to change that about the Forsaken to some degree. Even Kel'Thuzad had living acolytes and necromancers under him, so the Scourge was less evil than the Forsaken by comparison.

I can't say much of the people on the Pumpkin Farm (we know nothing about them, we basically do a quest to steal their pumpkin so we can give poisoned pumpkins to the Scarlet Crusade, but we don't know if they work with them or not, i doubt it, so i guess you got a point there), BTW Kelthuzad followers were obligated to drink a weird veil that basically stripped them of their will, so no...

The fight was against the Scourge and the Ebon Blade and the Hearthglen were all on the same side. Attacking her own side for collaborating against a greater enemy is stupid and petty. The two class order were supposed to be cooperaing against the Scourge presence in Anderhol. What would she do if she walked into the Ebon Hold or Lights Hope Chapel seeing Deathknights or Horde Paladins working together? The Deathknights still have to free Kolitra from Sylvannas in the campaign so she is still a risk to your class order in the end.

The warning we were given from the beginning is still valid. Do not trust your leaders this expansion.

Koltira was not working for the Ebon Blade nor Thassarian, they were working for their respective factions (Horde and Alliance), they were fighting for control over Hearthglen the Scourge was a third party, both of them were attacking the same target but that doesn't mean they were not in battle, also... no... Deathknights don't have to free Koltira from Sylvanas, cause its not none of the DK bussiness, Thassarian wants you to help him rescue Koltira (He evens mentions that's just a personal request)

[Pony Soldier]

In my opinion it should've gone to Varok Saurfang or Baine Bloodhoof. Sylvanas is cool but to me she gives off this "i don't give a shit I do what I want" attitude and now that she's Warchief it's concerning. She just feels more like an independent character.

Of all characters Varok Saurfang is the one that deserves to be Warchief the most. He is like the Anduin Lothar of the Horde except he is still alive and kicking ass. He has one of the best leadership skills and years of experience. He knows what the Horde is all about. Yet even with that he still gets ignored.

If not Varok then it should be Baine Bloodhoof. He too has what it takes to drive the Horde forward and unlike Sylvanas he actually gives a shit about the Horde. I could totally follow a tauren Warchief. It may take him a while to learn the ins and outs of being Warchief due to his lack of experience but I think he would've been a better choice than Sylvanas.

[Kazuchika]

Sylvanas is cool but to me she gives off this "i don't give a shit I do what I want" attitude and now that she's Warchief it's concerning.

Oh you mean like Garrosh?

[anaxie]

In my opinion it should've gone to Varok Saurfang or Baine Bloodhoof. Sylvanas is cool but to me she gives off this "i don't give a shit I do what I want" attitude and now that she's Warchief it's concerning. She just feels more like an independent character.

Of all characters Varok Saurfang is the one that deserves to be Warchief the most. He is like the Anduin Lothar of the Horde except he is still alive and kicking ass. He has one of the best leadership skills and years of experience. He knows what the Horde is all about. Yet even with that he still gets ignored.

If not Varok then it should be Baine Bloodhoof. He too has what it takes to drive the Horde forward and unlike Sylvanas he actually gives a shit about the Horde. I could totally follow a tauren Warchief. It may take him a while to learn the ins and outs of being Warchief due to his lack of experience but I think he would've been a better choice than Sylvanas.

Hey as Vol'Jin said.

many will not understand.

Wait for the first ELF leading trolls and orcs to turn it into a force that will destroy the Legion.

once Legion is destroyed Sylvanas goes down as savior of the horde that rallied them in their darkest hour and the greatest Warchief since it's creation.

[Lebanese Dude]

It was the perfect opportunity for Thrall to return. I might have started liking Horde again.

[Deleted]

Blizzard needed women in positions of power.


it was very misogynyst.

[Pony Soldier]

Oh you mean like Garrosh?

Well Garrosh was different he cared about the Horde very much he wanted the Horde to be the most powerful but then that's what drove him into corruption and became power hungry and obsessed with the idea of taking over the world basically. It started with just the Alliance and then it evolved into the plain ol' world domination. He had moments where he showed he could be wise and honorable and as if he was "learning" to become a better Warchief.

It's really annoying too because ever since he became Warchief the Horde felt like how the Horde was supposed to feel. Like we were done with the pansy bullshit and we got down to work and started getting serious. He had the potential to be the best Warchief ever, far better than Thrall. Of course though, Blizzard decided to throw him away. Before they chose to make him all corrupted and power hungry he was my favorite Warchief. Damn it, it's irritating just thinking about what it would've been like to keep that honorful Garrosh and still have him leading the Horde.

[Kazuchika]

It was the perfect opportunity for Thrall to return. I might have started liking Horde again.

Nice try Metzen.

[Gorsameth]

In my opinion it should've gone to Varok Saurfang or Baine Bloodhoof. Sylvanas is cool but to me she gives off this "i don't give a shit I do what I want" attitude and now that she's Warchief it's concerning. She just feels more like an independent character.

Of all characters Varok Saurfang is the one that deserves to be Warchief the most. He is like the Anduin Lothar of the Horde except he is still alive and kicking ass. He has one of the best leadership skills and years of experience. He knows what the Horde is all about. Yet even with that he still gets ignored.

If not Varok then it should be Baine Bloodhoof. He too has what it takes to drive the Horde forward and unlike Sylvanas he actually gives a shit about the Horde. I could totally follow a tauren Warchief. It may take him a while to learn the ins and outs of being Warchief due to his lack of experience but I think he would've been a better choice than Sylvanas.

Saurfang is a warrior not a leader. Sure he can lead soldiers in the field but that is imo a very different kind of leadership. He would be a terrible politician.

Baine is to young and inexperienced to lead something as big and diverse as the Horde.

Sylvanas on the otherhand has extensive politician experience, having united and basically formed the forsaken into an actual nation as well as tons of life experience.
Plus as center figure of the Horde it is a lot harder for her to plot and scheme out of sight of everyone.
Often to best way to deal with a schemer is to keep them front and center where everyone's eyes are upon them.

Its not like the Horde isn't going to resist her if she goes crazy. (see Garrosh).

[Shibito]

These threads bring out the best in you alliance scumbags!

[Krause]

Maybe this means Horde outposts in future expansions will use the cool Forsaken architecture instead of the dumb as hell Orc architecture.

[Traveler Voltin]

Well Garrosh was different he cared about the Horde very much he wanted the Horde to be the most powerful but then that's what drove him into corruption and became power hungry and obsessed with the idea of taking over the world basically. It started with just the Alliance and then it evolved into the plain ol' world domination. He had moments where he showed he could be wise and honorable and as if he was "learning" to become a better Warchief.

It's really annoying too because ever since he became Warchief the Horde felt like how the Horde was supposed to feel. Like we were done with the pansy bullshit and we got down to work and started getting serious. He had the potential to be the best Warchief ever, far better than Thrall. Of course though, Blizzard decided to throw him away. Before they chose to make him all corrupted and power hungry he was my favorite Warchief. Damn it, it's irritating just thinking about what it would've been like to keep that honorful Garrosh and still have him leading the Horde.

garrosh only cared about the Orcs not the horde as a whole.

[Lastlivingsoul]

BTW Kelthuzad followers were obligated to drink a weird veil that basically stripped them of their will, so no...

Just wondering where you came up with that one. If you could provide the link and enlighten me I'd love to know more. (This is a serious non inflamatory request, I'm not all flames and arguements)

The only humans I see in the Undercity are inhumanly kept as mc'd pets or are experimented on in cages.Still yet to see an Orc on a leash around Stormwind or a Tauren pulling a cart. Face it the Horde really deserves their reputation a lot more than Alliance at times. That is probably not entirely her fault because of the nature of the Undead but its not someone I'd want to have ruling over the living ya know.

Koltira was not working for the Ebon Blade nor Thassarian, they were working for their respective factions (Horde and Alliance), they were fighting for control over Hearthglen the Scourge was a third party, both of them were attacking the same target but that doesn't mean they were not in battle, also... no... Deathknights don't have to free Koltira from Sylvanas

Fight for your life to be free from one Undead Tyrant just to be imprisoned by the next and the Death Knights just roll over and take it. That's the logic of someone who slaps someone in the face and runs away. She already had Anderhol when she captured him, so yeah justifying Cataclysm questline lore is a losing battle. She is basically the Hillary of the Horde. Untrustworthy, corrupt and bound to dissapoint at every turn but better than Gallywix ... I guess.

[Deleted]

garrosh only cared about the Orcs not the horde as a whole.

And Sylvanas only cares about the forsaken.