Blizzard realised that addons have to much influence on raiding

[Gorsameth]

Except they didn't. AVR was all encompassing, it was being used for everything. These radars have only really been used for mechanics that are absolutely horrendously designed. Many many mechanics could be simplified using them but they aren't widely used for that purpose, indicating there isn't a problem (nor do they provide much advantage on those mechanics).

It is not frequency of use that bothers Blizzard, its what they can do. Go listen to the interview. What I typed is what Watcher said, they broke AVR back in Wrath and now addons were doing the same again, so it will be broken again.

[BiggestNoob]

It is not frequency of use that bothers Blizzard, its what they can do. Go listen to the interview. What I typed is what Watcher said, they broke AVR back in Wrath and now addons were doing the same again, so it will be broken again.

Addons aren't doing anything close to what AVR was doing. That's like comparing a needle prick to a gunshot wound. The former is a useful tool that we need for modern health, the latter just kills you. Relate that to raiding and it's the same concept.

One thing that's absolutely certain is that Watcher isn't actually presenting the real reason in this interview.

[Deleted]

Thank god for this!

The less addons required for raiding the better. They should design better fights, instead of fights where so much stuff is happening, it's not humanly possible to avoid.

Well if it is humanly possible, if it's reasonably possible, then having addons that hold your hand is us just being lazy.

[Kraineth]

Addons aren't doing anything close to what AVR was doing. That's like comparing a needle prick to a gunshot wound. The former is a useful tool that we need for modern health, the latter just kills you. Relate that to raiding and it's the same concept.

One thing that's absolutely certain is that Watcher isn't actually presenting the real reason in this interview.

Sorry friendo, but plenty of competitive raiders will agree that radar addons and addons that can tell you exactly where to go were getting out of hand.

People were already literally making similar addons for legion bosses.

[Nahela]

Thank god for this!

The less addons required for raiding the better. They should design better fights, instead of fights where so much stuff is happening, it's not humanly possible to avoid.

Well if it is humanly possible, if it's reasonably possible, then having addons that hold your hand is us just being lazy.

This is exactly the huge problem right now. Legion fights are currently designed around these addons existing, said addons are being removed. So either a) They're going to completely redesign 7.0 and 7.1+ fights or b) Enjoy being needlessly frustrated on Mythic levels of said raids because the game does an abysmal job of letting you determine distance.

I completely agree with the more complex functionality being removed, it's an arms race that's been hindering encounter design. On one hand you get more complex fights as a result, but on the other the complexity has gotten out of hand as it's complexity for complexity's sake, not good design.

That all being said, if they're still going to insist on "spread out X yards" mechanics being near-constant, then they either need to dramatically change how the game relays this information or backpeddle on disabling these types of addons.

Also, the fact that this information is coming out a week before Legion at an interview at a non-Blizzard convention is slightly absurd. The thought that they were going to flip the switch for 7.0.3 also seems incredibly ignorant. Would have straight up killed any post 7.0 raiding for a lot of guilds.

[Deleted]

One thing that's absolutely certain is that Watcher isn't actually presenting the real reason in this interview.

I think with this and the camera change its pretty obvious what direction they are moving in; they want more control over how you, the player, experiences the game.

That isn't neccesarily a bad thing but WoW is over 10 years old and for the most part has been incredibly relaxed about addons, in fact it has probably been the main reason wow hasn't seen major UI overhauls, because the devs know people can and are just doing it themselves.

Addons are a part of WoW, that's just how it is, I think trying to change that after so long is an awful idea but it seems now that the whole flying argument is over the more idiotic parts of the community need another crusade to get behind in order to make everyone elses life more annoying for no good reason.

[Deleted]

Well I personally play without addons. Addons are just a hassle for me and generally disrupt the cohesiveness of the experience. I use Recount when raiding because my output is important, but it's a very minor addon. I have used DBM and hated it. At one point it was a requirement for raiding in the guild I was in.

With all that said, I think the current UI is just awful. I've no clue why we've never had a true UI update to at least bring the game up to the other modern MMOs.

They've even pruned some of the UI options in Legion. I expected them to add customization, not remove.

[Raiju]

i think its blizzard fault tbh.

in the guilds i raided the thing with DBM or such things become mandotry became a thing end of cata/mop. They simply overloaded the bosses with mechanics and the community responded. Its simply bad game design, they simply should tone it down a bit

Other way around.

[Nahela]

Other way around.

It's both, actually. The cycle's been perpetuating since classic, both positively and negatively.

[Raiju]

It's both, actually. The cycle's been perpetuating since classic, both positively and negatively.

We had a single mechanic in the entirety of cataclysm (given AVR was killed off for good in wrath iirc) that required a boss mod to time correctly. We addon'd the shit out of it anyway.

[ehxy]

Wow is 13+ yrs old if you include the development phase. Its UI has had to evolve via the addon community for its lifespan. The telegraphing system is very old in the tooth graphically and in standards.

Who here can honestly say they spend more time watching the actual target they are attacking than the UI hp bar/target's hp/resources/timers/debuffs/buffs/buffs on target/debuffs on target/combo points/plate/cooldowns/secondary resource?

It's like being in a gun fight and you're checking how much ammo you have left more than looking at the other person shooting at you.

The addon community developed things like TMW, WeakAuras, DBM, DPS meters, timers, sound telegraphs, better SCT and so on so we don't have to look at the skill bar/status bar/buffs/debuffs/etc. 24/7.

If they want to start taking away addon functionality they really need to step up their game.

Look at Diablo 3. It was a goddamn mess when it came out. They spent the first 2yrs fixing it. When it was actually fun to play again at the basic level and people got to the end game flaws started to appear. Mechanics like entire packs with reflect decimating anyone not doing physical damage(literally all but 1 or two classes/builds), insta kill mechanics that were obscene because it ripped skill out of the player's hands with no telegraphing whatsoever. To this day it still has some mechanics that do not work such as pulling a pack and in the midst of it you can not see anything on the ground so you have no idea why you died. T. bolts that appear instantly with no clear sign when they are cast unless you sit their and time it after the first use.

Blizzard leads in a great many ways but it is lagging behind in standards and features that support the gameplay and content. They took a nice little step in simplifying rotations/priorities rolling and baking some talents into skills but at the end of the day it's still the same thing. We spend combat with one eye on the target and the other eye looking up, down, left and right or use an addon that slaps indicator information that overlaps on our target so we don't have to look away.

TLDR: How about blizzard steps up their design and mechanics so addons like GTFO isn't even considered useful? I mean hell half the goddamn time you can't even see crap on the ground because it clips through it, it's too transparent, it's a circle where the indicator is on the outline so if you're playing over the shoulder you would never know you're gonna get screwed. It's why the actioncam is a pure failure and why most people played zoomed out.

[Deleted]

This is exactly the huge problem right now. Legion fights are currently designed around these addons existing, said addons are being removed. So either a) They're going to completely redesign 7.0 and 7.1+ fights or b) Enjoy being needlessly frustrated on Mythic levels of said raids because the game does an abysmal job of letting you determine distance.

I completely agree with the more complex functionality being removed, it's an arms race that's been hindering encounter design. On one hand you get more complex fights as a result, but on the other the complexity has gotten out of hand as it's complexity for complexity's sake, not good design.

That all being said, if they're still going to insist on "spread out X yards" mechanics being near-constant, then they either need to dramatically change how the game relays this information or backpeddle on disabling these types of addons.

Also, the fact that this information is coming out a week before Legion at an interview at a non-Blizzard convention is slightly absurd. The thought that they were going to flip the switch for 7.0.3 also seems incredibly ignorant. Would have straight up killed any post 7.0 raiding for a lot of guilds.

or, people will know have to spend a bit of time learning the mechanics and spells of a boss fight before trying to kill it instead of following arrows or walk to huge cicles on the ground saying "stand here!"

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Source?

Always good to leave a source

I think stuff like Tellmewhen and its many copies should be destroyed.

Thats just me though

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/

Anywayyyy

I completely agree with this decision and think it is a major step back towards creating more difficult encounters.

[wowaccounttom]

that would be awesome

[Deleted]

i think its blizzard fault tbh.

in the guilds i raided the thing with DBM or such things become mandotry became a thing end of cata/mop. They simply overloaded the bosses with mechanics and the community responded. Its simply bad game design, they simply should tone it down a bit

the fights were becomming easier and easier because of addons etc.
The only natural respond is to make the fights even more complex and harder to counter the addons without removing them.

[Raiju]

nope, if they had a prroblem with it they could it stop it back then, as many addon creator pointed out blizzard have this technology since a long time to remove and ban specifficaly addon and things. Blizzard had this mindsets to one up things in raids quite a long time

Yes, because of addons stepping further and further. Honestly anyone who can't see what addons did to archimonde really are too biased to be of any meaningful contribution here. Effectively doing positioning for people removes a massive skillcheck from many fights.

[Aggrophobic]

Source?

Always good to leave a source

I think stuff like Tellmewhen and its many copies should be destroyed.

Thats just me though

Yeah, thats not going to happen.

Going after addons like Exorsus raid tools is something Blizzard has done since Wrath so it's not like this is a surprise.

Removing addons like Weakauras or Tellmewhen would ruin the game though. Would kinda be like singning their own death warrant.

[kamuimac]

i think its blizzard fault tbh.

in the guilds i raided the thing with DBM or such things become mandotry became a thing end of cata/mop. They simply overloaded the bosses with mechanics and the community responded. Its simply bad game design, they simply should tone it down a bit

yes and that what they are doin - disblling position stuff is probably one of many things they will ban during duration of legion

[Deleted]

Yes, because of addons stepping further and further. Honestly anyone who can't see what addons did to archimonde really are too biased to be of any meaningful contribution here. Effectively doing positioning for people removes a massive skillcheck from many fights.

If using 3rd party addons and software is the only way to make sense of a mechanic that is a failure of game esign, not the players.

[Raiju]

If using 3rd party addons and software is the only way to make sense of a mechanic that is a failure of game esign, not the players.

How do you think it got that far? Because we used addons on mechanics we didn't need to to trivialize those. Blizzard had to up the ante to offer a challenge.

Also, there was no issue making sense of archimonde - it was merely execution that was trivialized.