Vengeance really squishy on live?

[aikanaro]

Yes but, in my opinion, as a tank since it is strictly a dps improvement I consider it optional and often better saved for mobility. With mitigation baked in it would make it that much less rotationally optional.

Currently, sure.. but once fire damage heals us with our artifact, it will be a nice little burst of healing. I try to keep one extra charge for movement though.

[Hexxidecimal]

That really inst valid. It's like saying to a level 90 tank they dont have any heroic Hellfire gear when they are trying tanking Slagmaul.

Eh? Seems pretty valid to me. You don't have all your tools and DHs were balanced around 110. Gear =/= talents. We are missing basic class tools, that's a pretty huge deal.

[Nahela]

Vengeance feels really strong right now, imo, the only issue most people are running into is simply lack of stamina from not being fully geared. The mastery hotfix gives us an incredible amount of physical damage reduction and Empower Wards is also very powerful given its short CD. The damage is going to be really spiky if you're mismanaging though.

Self-Healing will go up significantly with the Artifact and remaining talents.

Sadly I'm not sure Sigil of Chains is worth it anymore, a little bummed that they changed that at the last minute. The range on it is prohibitive and the quality of life improvements on the other two talents are simply too good to pass up.

EDIT:

Well, it certainly would be nice to have it generate like 20 pain, at least when it hit something, to let us activate demon spikes right away.

Or have sigil of flame generate 20 pain since we usually cast that pre-pull anyway. Would make it feel less mediocre to use mid-fight as well.

Felblade already generates 20 and is easily the best choice on the tier, you can use that to engage. We definitely don't need more Pain generation, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see a nerf in the current state of things. There's no sense trying to make balance changes at 100.

[Hexxidecimal]

Well, I'd categorize "700+" as "wildly overgeared" for mythic 5 mans. That's the gear level at which you need to pull 3 groups at once just to make your healer have to cast heals. That's when, instead of wiping when that retarded hunter in your group spams barrage on everything in range, you just get kind of annoyed and ask him to stop but after the third admonishment you give up and accept that he'll be pulling everything in every room you enter and you don't care enough to replace him because you realize that it actually doesn't really matter anyway. Randoms, man.

Anyway, no tanks should feel squishy doing that content at that gear level. So it's not really a good gauge of whether or not a class is more or less squishy than another. Though I don't really think DHs seem squishy right now, even if they do have issues for the first few seconds of large pulls (on boss pulls it's not a problem thanks to fiery brand) since they have access to no mitigation whatsoever until they generate enough pain to actually use it. Pretty bad design, if you ask me... but that's what we've got to work with.

I have been using Chaos nova on AoE pulls when I have no Pain. I try and keep pain up from pull to pull though so I can start the new one with Demon Spikes. Doesn't always work out

[Pooti]

Felblade already generates 20 and is easily the best choice on the tier, you can use that to engage. We definitely don't need more Pain generation, in fact I wouldn't be surprised to see a nerf in the current state of things. There's no sense trying to make balance changes at 100.

Yep that was my bad, I hadn't noticed that tier 3 talent. The OP is however talking about live, which that talent isn't. I do agree though that making any change at this point would be pointless.

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I have been using Chaos nova on AoE pulls when I have no Pain. I try and keep pain up from pull to pull though so I can start the new one with Demon Spikes. Doesn't always work out

Vengeance doesn't have Chaos Nova, thats a Havoc spell!

[Hexxidecimal]

Yep that was my bad, I hadn't noticed that tier 3 talent. The OP is however talking about live, which that talent isn't. I do agree though that making any change at this point would be pointless.

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Vengeance doesn't have Chaos Nova, thats a Havoc spell!

Doh wrong spell, I meant Firey Brand. With the talent that spreads it.

[Deleted]

DH tanking is rather good at 100, it must be you guys being inexperienced..

[Simulacrum]

...

Vengeance doesn't have Chaos Nova, thats a Havoc spell!

I sure wish we had it, though. Then you wouldn't even have to rely on a secondary class to bring the aoe stuns for your 5 man mythic+ runs!

[Deleted]

Was there any blue post from Blizzard saying that DH tank will be worse on raids and better on dungeons/M+? I think that there was something like this, but can't find this. If im wrong please correct me.

[Nahela]

Was there any blue post from Blizzard saying that DH tank will be worse on raids and better on dungeons/M+? I think that there was something like this, but can't find this. If im wrong please correct me.

They were talking in terms of complexity, not survivability. "Vengeance is probably a mid-tier tank when it comes to complexity. They have a lot utility in Mythic+ dungeons which makes them a little more complex, but a little less complex in raid tanking."