Germany bans muslim teen from wearing niqab

[Themius]

it is very easy to sit in your comfortable chair and say how liberal you are and the hijab should not be banned because its religion.


now ask the thousands of victims of terror attacks that came about from CCTV/officers cameras not being able to identify the assailant before they acted.

just because you pretend there is not a problem. does not mean there is not one.

You want to ban hijabs too? Holy fuck... Europeans and Africans have been wearing head scarves for hundreds of years, what makes a hijab worthy of being banned?

Where are these thousands of terrorist attacks?

[tankbug]

How about do exactly like i would do, go to a country that shares values and thats not at War? You know Egypt, Turkey, Iran.

Maybe they don't have the luxury of choice, the knowledge on which countries the would find it easiest to make new lives for themselves, maybe they're not welcome in some of these countries, and maybe they don't know anything about western culture before they're already among us. It's not that simple.

[Xarkan]

Then you do like everyone else. You fucking adapt to the situation of the country you decided to join. If Full face mask is not legal in a public estbalishment, you just have to do just that. Just like smokers cant smoke inside, just like nudist cant run around naked.

To be fair i am not objecting to outlawing masks in the public space as long as it is all masks

I just would not try to label or package countries like Turkey as peaceful muslim havens.

[Deleted]

You want to ban hijabs too? Holy fuck... Europeans and Africans have been wearing head scarves for hundreds of years, what makes a hijab worthy of being banned?

Where are these thousands of terrorist attacks?

ofcourse there is...you find that hard to believe? you hear about only the 'worst(in eyes of media) and only attacks on western populations.

acts of terror are alot more than just someone commiting suicide with a bomb strapped to them or shooting groups of people.

people are confusing niqabs with hijabs. they are not the same.

check the daily occurance of radical islamic terror in the middle east and africa. it is a daily occurrence now and has been for some time.

[Shibito]

I don't understand this mentality. Allow people to do as they please. I do think any women who actively puts herself through this, if not being forced through threats of disownment, are fucking insane however.

They are forced the male members of the family can be the biggest enemy they got.

[Machismo]

The issue is the justification behind the ban. If a school wants to limit something because it conceals their face in a classroom, that makes logical sense. If the justification is to ban it because Muslims are scary, then that is idiocy. That's the territory that the OP jumped into by preaching to also ban hijabs.

[Themius]

ofcourse there is...you find that hard to believe? you hear about only the 'worst(in eyes of media) and only attacks on western populations.

acts of terror are alot more than just someone commiting suicide with a bomb strapped to them or shooting groups of people.

check the daily occurance of radical islamic terror in the middle east and africa. it is a daily occurrence now and has been for some time.

And they're by people in burqas? Also there are tons of radical christian attacks on that continent.

[Deleted]

"What are you talking about??"
You said you should conform to the country's laws and culture because you should gtfo otherwise. I say that you might find that difficult in certain situations, even when the alternative is no future at all. Don't treat it like it's a simple and easy matter.
Btw, I'm not defending FGM at all, since I use it as an extreme example it should be obvious that my opinion is quite the opposite.

And you go on and site some of the oppressive stuff that goes on under highly Islamic cultures to somehow prove a point. Totally forgetting the bit where if you would go there and go against things like veiled woman or any of the other drivel, you would most likely be slapped silly or end up in jail.
Now, apparently your point is "but it is not easy for them", and im sorry to be the one to have to inform you, life is not fucking easy. Yes, it sucks to be them, but that is no reason to upset the culture you had to flee to. If the option is "to starve, suffer and die" as you have put it, or, not being able to wear all covering cloths in your new country i'd say that is a pretty low price to pay for not dying and all that jazz.
And yes, that stance does defend FGM, as you know, why should they have to adhere to this pesky local culture? They are free to do whatever they want, so why not this then? This maybe where you draw the line, but it is arbitrary at best.

[ParanoiD84]

As someone from Saudi Arabia, you would be surprised by how controversial niqab is. Half the woman here don't wear them & stick with hijab.

Let me make one thing clear though. Niqab is a cultural thing while hijab is an islamic tradition.

Hijab is fine it looks great, im not sure why anyone would wear the blue burqa though, looks like a personal prison and i doubt any woman likes wearing it. The niqab is abit to much also but im ok with it. It also looks like that culture went backwards after the clothing the old persian, egyptian etc women wore back then.

[Deleted]

Oh but if they're Christian then they're acting in accordance with their culture?

That's the thing with culture, it really depends on where they are. Not all of western civilization is Christian you know..
And, it would not be a niqab but a hijab,

[Themius]

And you go on and site some of the oppressive stuff that goes on under highly Islamic cultures to somehow prove a point. Totally forgetting the bit where if you would go there and go against things like veiled woman or any of the other drivel, you would most likely be slapped silly or end up in jail.
Now, apparently your point is "but it is not easy for them", and im sorry to be the one to have to inform you, life is not fucking easy. Yes, it sucks to be them, but that is no reason to upset the culture you had to flee to. If the option is "to starve, suffer and die" as you have put it, or, not being able to wear all covering cloths in your new country i'd say that is a pretty low price to pay for not dying and all that jazz.
And yes, that stance does defend FGM, as you know, why should they have to adhere to this pesky local culture? They are free to do whatever they want, so why not this then? This maybe where you draw the line, but it is arbitrary at best.

Wait if people practicing their culture and not harming you, is "upsetting your culture" then your culture is pretty shit. If your culture is "assimilate else I'll be upset." it's utter shit.

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That's the thing with culture, it really depends on where they are. Not all of western civilization is Christian you know..

Really? Western Civilization is essentially Europe...

[ranzino]

Oh but if they're Christian then they're acting in accordance with their culture?

Christians wear niquab ? that's new. For the record: habit of of nuns are not a fine example as they wont conceal their faces.

and if you did catch a nasty cold and use a scarf: dont visit a bank headwrapped; security trumps your health anytime. Or simple remove it for a nice shot of the camera.

[Deleted]

And they're by people in burqas? Also there are tons of radical christian attacks on that continent.

? that is not the topic we are talking about...impossible to have a proper conversation. i make a point and your response is a totally unrelated comment.

[zenkai]

Its called freedom of religion which is in fact implemented into country law. I need to say more?

If I took up a religion that had required me to sacrifice small animals with a hammer would you also champion my cause? Religious freedom is fine but there has to be limitations.

[Deleted]

Yes, I'd love to hear a reasonable discussion on this topic. But it surely can't go as far as saying "You shouldn't wear this outfit because we don't like it".

Assimilating and adjusting to a certain culture shouldn't be a talking point when talking about banning specific clothes. The only valid argument is, and should be, that you are not allowed to conceil your face or, as others have pointed out, wear a hat etc. to specific gatherings - school in this case.

Saying that "muslims shouldnt be allowed to wear burqas because they need to adjust to our culture" is stupid and not a valid argument. Am I not allowed to wear a shirt with asian dancers on it because that doesn't specifically reflect our culture? What a ridiculous and seriously scary idea.

It is when these clothings cover your face, in our culture we expect to see peoples faces, it is that simple. This is an unwritten rule that can be applied throughout western culture. So it is not against Muslims, but rather a culture clash. And you might find it silly, but when you go somewhere you adhere to their culture, not doing this is plainly rude.

[ranzino]

... Religious freedom is fine but there has to be limitations.

you are never totally free and a limited freedom means technically there is no freedom at all.
pleople just need to be careful when they throw "but muh freedom" around.

[Deleted]

It's my personal belief that Muslims who are living in non-muslim nations have an acceptable compromise available to them; the hijab.

While I understand that the niqab is important to some, completely covering your face isn't really acceptable practice in public no matter the garment.

[Deleted]

Wow i did not think anyone in Germany had it in them, way to go.

This protection of religion for any costs for security risks have gone too far. If you dont like western culture or want to pratice your religion?

Go to places where you can, it is as simple as that. All they want is both and free social security in most cases.

[Deleted]

Wait if people practicing their culture and not harming you, is "upsetting your culture" then your culture is pretty shit. If your culture is "assimilate else I'll be upset." it's utter shit.

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Really? Western Civilization is essentially Europe...

Oh it is shit? Is that your defence?? Really??? Great defence /slowclap...
And not all of Europe is Christian, in fact most of Europe isn't.

[Dundebuns]

Denying people the right to wear what they want is oppressive.

This is like saying it's oppressive to remove someones shackles against their will. It is a symbol of subjugation. If it wasn't, then men would also wear full length veils.