I don't get why Elemental is struggling?

[Deleted]

You make it seem like spamming AB and not clearing arcane charges when the boss has 1-2% is some ancient secret.

It was for most mages. And it was more than 1-2% but i assume you are being facetious.

Obviously it's not rocket science, but wow isn't a difficult game at its core, so little things like this stand out

[Aggrophobic]

Funny you say that considering only bad arcane mages did the 4AS-1AM rota, good mages finished the fight with 0 mana which required perfect knowledge of your class, your raid and the encounter. Arcane mage was one of the classes where good players could pull out the most, only issue was that 99,9% of them didn't do it, they just played it safe or straight up didn't know.

It was still till today a complete unique DPS feature, being able to adjust your rota like that, increasing your dps but risking to run out of mana. Kind of like healers have a faster, more cost-inefficient heal that does increase your HPS though.

Yes, the rota was incredible simple, but that feature alone made it more complex than any priority lists/rotations, except maybe for feral and enhancer. It's one thing to just play down your rota/prio, a different one to actively think, adjust and decide every single spell cast based on how the boss fight is going and planning ahead

Making sure you end a fight with no mana is hard? Damn, I must have been so pro with my mage. I managed to do that all the time.
Arcane is and has always been super easy to play.

A good player will of course be able to do just a little more than the average player but still, if you want to come close to the numbers of the best players then arcane mage is one of the best classes to do that in.

[Heavens Night]

Yes, of course we would like Ele to be top-1 dps, it's just rare thing to see. Why did you pick a hybrid class and play it as dps if you want to be 100% competitive? The thing is that on like top-500 guild, the progress bosses are not hard because of the group doesn't have enough dps, they're hard because players don't counter the mechanics. Of course we have had wipes for enrage/berserk of the encounter, but usually the first kill is already like 20sec or more before boss enrages/berserks. I am not saying the extra dps wouldn't help, of course it helps, but it doesn't matter so much when you have half of your raid playing like retards. I don't just personally care if my class is bad, I try my best, it has been this far enough, yet never I've been replaced. I hope they buff ele because you guys could enjoy it more then, but anyway, I play the class I want (spec depends on what guild wants). Sorry for bad English, and sorry for bad comments.

You need to get your head out of the past

There hasn't been a hybrid tax for years. Hybrid classes are competitive, that kind of thinking about Hybrids being somehow below comparison is outdated.

[gambit998]

Um sorry to tell you Shamans STILL Had the Hybrid tax in WOD....hence the shocking numbers and lack of true utility.

[Heavens Night]

Um sorry to tell you Shamans STILL Had the Hybrid tax in WOD....hence the shocking numbers and lack of true utility.

No.

No hybrid tax.

That is your opinion, it is not fact. Something people on these forums tend to confuse a great deal.

[Gaucho-]

No.

No hybrid tax.

That is your opinion, it is not fact. Something people on these forums tend to confuse a great deal.

Just because you use trigger forum lines like "totally your opinion, mate!!!" or "your opinion = not fact !!!!" doesnt make him wrong or you right. WoD is over and people who activily play this spec can perfectly figure out what was in game or not.

[gambit998]

Just because you use trigger forum lines like "totally your opinion, mate!!!" or "your opinion = not fact !!!!" doesnt make him wrong or you right. WoD is over and people who activily play this spec can perfectly figure out what was in game or not.

Thanks was about to say that.........obviously he doesnt understand what Hybrid Tax actually did. (Or he might and not know how it STILL affects hybrid Classes)

Classic - Elemental was a non entity....spec just didnt work
Burning Crusade - Lightning build Buff Machine with totem twisting. (Totem twisting caused our damage numbers to drop as we where designated as a support class)
Wrath of the Litch King - Everything was aoe spam to get anything done and we where given our totem bars to manage our buffs/totems. Granted a QoL change but eventually axed. Elemental Had no AOE and was finally gifted with a CC which we could have used in BC when CC was king of heroics.
Cataclysm - The is when the Hybrid Tax was introduced, Damage numbers where dropped for Druids, Shaman, Paladin and Priests. But utility was added to compensate. All of these classes although unable to sustain the healing numbers could fill that role for a short period of time and be quite effective.
MOP - Paladins and Druids got a major rework to there specs not making there healing viable other than Boomkin that had an impressive AG equavlent. Priests damage was untouched. Shamans gained some of there damage back when the 'buff' totems where replaced with the current ones we have now. Our healing through AG was formidable and eventually involved a nerf to the talent. Our AOE was buffed to standards that tbh where a Overbuff in my eyes.(That was our Niche)
WOD - This expansion made the 'Hybrid tax' so visable for Priests and Ele Shamans that they where the bottom of most DPS lists for the entire expansion. Our Healing while granted wasnt amazing or good for that matter was handy and counts as our 'utility.' My shaman that i spent the entire expansion gearing up just could not keep up with less geared players, my own alts could burst and deal more damage that my 700+item lvl shaman. (This is when you say i dont know how to play i guess -.- ) The damage became a joke near the end of the expansion, the talents where a contested point from the 2nd month of the expansion with blizzard even saying that they know our totem tier isnt working. (Nothing was fixed)

In Conclusion: If our Hybrid Tax was removed please explain to me how/why we where the bottom of the rung? How/why our damage numbers are pathetic during WOD? Our Utility was horrible so our damage should be good right? Nope that never happened.

(One thing i have noticed throughout the years of playing a Ele Shaman....we are consistantly 1 expansion behind mechanically and as soon as we have something unique and shiny thats new it gets nerfed/removed from us and given to another class and improved. Sad but i have seen it for years)

[freddy090909]

In Conclusion: If our Hybrid Tax was removed please explain to me how/why we where the bottom of the rung? How/why our damage numbers are pathetic during WOD? Our Utility was horrible so our damage should be good right? Nope that never happened.

(One thing i have noticed throughout the years of playing a Ele Shaman....we are consistantly 1 expansion behind mechanically and as soon as we have something unique and shiny thats new it gets nerfed/removed from us and given to another class and improved. Sad but i have seen it for years)

We were bad because our niche was extremely specialized (sustained AoE that increased single target damage), and because (as you said), we were behind most other specs mechanically. That is NOT because we were hybrids (see specs like boomkin), but because of design problems. We were even pretty good in BRF, where EQ usage was prevalent and the legendary ring hadn't completely come and ruined balance yet.

The hybrid tax has been gone a long time, and statements by Blizzard that say as much were made years ago. The only downside to being a hybrid is that you don't have the flexibility that pures have of changing specs.

I am not happy at all with the current state of Ele on Legion, however our problems are more due to horrible design decisions (particularly concerning our AoE), rather than Blizzard specifically targeting us because we have healing surge on our bar.

[Gaucho-]

We were bad because our niche was extremely specialized (sustained AoE that increased single target damage), and because (as you said), we were behind most other specs mechanically. That is NOT because we were hybrids (see specs like boomkin), but because of design problems. We were even pretty good in BRF, where EQ usage was prevalent and the legendary ring hadn't completely come and ruined balance yet.

The hybrid tax has been gone a long time, and statements by Blizzard that say as much were made years ago. The only downside to being a hybrid is that you don't have the flexibility that pures have of changing specs.

I am not happy at all with the current state of Ele on Legion, however our problems are more due to horrible design decisions (particularly concerning our AoE), rather than Blizzard specifically targeting us because we have healing surge on our bar.

He means "hybrid tax" not as in all hybrids doing passivily 5-1000% less damage than a pure DPS spec by design. But rather a new "hybrid tax", after they *removed* the original one.. one which still gimps hybrid DPS and especially Shaman. We still have, by design, less movement abilities, less defensive abilities and generelly a worse toolkit than pure DPS classes. On top of them having 3 DPS specs to chose from. And now after GamesCom they got certainty that they wont be nerfed.

[shammypie]

He means "hybrid tax" not as in all hybrids doing passivily 5-1000% less damage than a pure DPS spec by design. But rather a new "hybrid tax", after they *removed* the original one.. one which still gimps hybrid DPS and especially Shaman. We still have, by design, less movement abilities, less defensive abilities and generelly a worse toolkit than pure DPS classes. On top of them having 3 DPS specs to chose from. And now after GamesCom they got certainty that they wont be nerfed.

elemental and tank shamans are dead horses. Enhancement has it days and can be competitive at least 1 out of 3 tiers but Elemental is never going to happen. It's sole function is to be a questing spec/swing spec for Resto shamans. I've played them since wrath and nothing ever changes. Well I will say 1 thing has changed. For once they didn't blanket band-aid fixes for the final tier, Blizzard just gave up completely.

[16dots]

You need to get your head out of the past

There hasn't been a hybrid tax for years. Hybrid classes are competitive, that kind of thinking about Hybrids being somehow below comparison is outdated.

You couldn't be more wrong about this, have you looked at any sims in the past 4 years? pure dps classes are always head and shoulder above hybrids in every one of them, feral druids might be the only exception, blizzard probably thought they should be compensated for how complex their rotation is.

[Jotaux]

u have never played arcane mage in woltk or frost dk ever. having 10 % lower skill doesnt automatically mean that u do x percent lower dmg amongst all classes. as an frost dk or arcane mage u will not notice a substantial difference in output depending on skill level , where as a feral druid for example, you will.

What is and what should are two very different things.

[Betelgeuse]

You literally couldn't be more wrong.

ICC was probably the worst tier for Enhance and Elemental was really really bad until Firelands.

OT Elemental will struggle because its fucking Elemental. Redheaded stepchild of the game.

I guess my evidence is anecdotal since in my guild in ICC an Enhance regularly topped the meters and ditto with an Elemental in BoT and BWD. Maybe some people are just better at shaman than others...

[Gaucho-]

I guess my evidence is anecdotal since in my guild in ICC an Enhance regularly topped the meters and ditto with an Elemental in BoT and BWD. Maybe some people are just better at shaman than others...

No, it's because in the grand scheme of things your own experience doesn't matter. That's why you test medicine with two different groups of people.

[16dots]

I guess my evidence is anecdotal since in my guild in ICC an Enhance regularly topped the meters and ditto with an Elemental in BoT and BWD. Maybe some people are just better at shaman than others...

It's almost like saying: dogs don't bark because I had a dog that never barks.

Do you see the flaw in that sentence?

[DesFolk]

4 talents working with LVB, 1 talent working with LB/CL, artifact ability working with LB/CL. Such good design, wow, great talents. This is first ele problem now.

[UnknownSoldier]

4 talents working with LVB, 1 talent working with LB/CL, artifact ability working with LB/CL. Such good design, wow, great talents. This is first ele problem now.

That right there is probably one of the biggest problems. Elemental has one of, if not the, worst designed artifacts in Legion, and an artifact rework is not exactly something I see happening at this stage.

[Trollfat]

Elemental has one of, if not the, *best* designed artifacts in Legion, and an artifact rework is not exactly something I see happening at this stage.

fixed /10char

[Deleted]

fixed /10char

Dat Sarcasm. Cant even laugh about it.

[Deleted]

The elemental artifact is pretty good if you actually stop whining like kids and see what the perks are.

But hey feel free to join the masses of paladins,warlocks,mages,dks,warriors,priests,rogues,hunters saying the same things about their "terrible spec,artifact"

In two months from now, it will be so fun to see what these crybabies will actually do.