Alliance vs Horde wounds reopened over a misunderstanding?

[Taeldorian]

Let's cut the "misunderstanding" and "shit writing blizz" crap and just accept the assault on the Broken Shore was just a stupid decision. I mean, if Horde stayed, what would Alliance do? Close the portal? They can't do it without the pillars of creation. Kill Gul'dan? Does it worth sacrificing many heroes and faction leaders just to kill one guy? Nope.

If the horde honestly stayed, they would have all been killed rather than just Vol'Jin, which would have been way worse than retreating. The alliance would've ended up retreating anyway after that, they would have just suffered more losses. They wouldn't have even come close to touching the portal.

[Wyrt]

But as soon as it came time to sound the retreat, she didn't even have her archers say, "We're being overrun! We need to retreat! You should as well!" She sounded the horn, and her archers walked away barely faster than a brisk walk.

Um, the horn was the call for retreat. Why would they need to specify that they're retreating when the horn already signaled that? How many times do they need to tell that idiot Wrynn they're retreating exactly? I know he's not the brightest bulb, but come on.

[Florena]

If the horde honestly stayed, they would have all been killed rather than just Vol'Jin, which would have been way worse than retreating. The alliance would've ended up retreating anyway after that, they would have just suffered more losses. They wouldn't have even come close to touching the portal.

Yeah, the rogue campaign reveals that it was all a trap from the start in case it wasn't obvious enough.

[Sluvs]

They didn't know this at the time. You can't use meta-knowledge to try to dismiss a necessary assault as stupid.

The point is that the assault was doomed from the start.

Now to the point of the horn.
That horn was the sound of retreat, horns were used before in actual history for that purpose alone, it's one of the few ways to control an army. And the alliance understood what it meant 3 seconds later when Greymane complained.

Horns were also used in the battle for the ashenvale, when one NE managed to kill the orc with the horn, she blew on it and SOUNDED the retreat, doing that she bought the alliance the time she needed.

So, any1 saying that they did not understand what the horn meant is simply wrong. Horns have been used for army communication consistently in the WoW universe.

Now, I can argue that silvanas could have sounded the retreat before, but that is another topic.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Orcs live for murder, torture, conquer and rape. That's what defines their culture in Lore.

They have never lived for rape, The only time we see anything about rape is after the fel horde was created.

[Deleted]

They have never lived for rape, The only time we see anything about rape is after the fel horde was created.

I think in reality most Orc-Fans play Orcs because they think rape is cool.


Infracted

[Archmage Khadgar]

Jaina won't let them back into the Alliance, ever, so they've got effectively no options

I don't think Jaina would have much say in it, honestly. She's not even a racial leader.

[Deleted]

I think in reality most Orc-Fans play Orcs because they think rape is cool.

You're just a bad troll.


Infracted. Don't call others trolls. Report bad posts and move on.

[Deleted]

You're just a bad troll.

Or maybe you are the one who is trolling.

[xskarma]

If this thread can't stay on topic, it's getting closed.

[steelballfc]

The Horde shouldn't shout Lok'tar Ogar if they want to run away. They are just a bunch of Hypocrites who scream stuff like "Victory or Death" and claiming how cowardly the Alliance is while running away and letting the Alliance die for them.

oh...., you are back, >.>
*drinking* continue

[Sir Andy]

I mean, fuck, arguing over the entire Broken Shore invasion is insanely stupid because its insanely stupid from every aspect.

Like, just compare the Invasion of Draenor with the Broken Shore. They actually read intel about the Iron Horde during the Invasion, prepared themselves, had good tactics and stuff, and meanwhile, they just rushed to the Broken Shores, completely staggered (why did the Argent Crusade like go on their own?) and had NO idea of the Legions capability. Hell, they didnt like check out how big the Legions army is, or if they already constructed a foothold on Azeroth.

I dont blame the Horde, really. They walked straight into a deathtrap that was unwinnable. Once they saw teleporting dimension-traveling ships, they should have retreated.

Yeah.

We really could've used another questline where the leaders of the Alliance, Horde, Argent Crusade, Earthen Ring, Cenarion Circle, Kirin Tor, etc. meet up and plan a strategy against the Legion. You wouldn't have any idea that Tirion is there fighting until you stumble upon the dying Argent Crusaders. Or why certain racial leaders (Lor'themar and Pals and the Council of Three Hammers, for instance) stayed behind. I find it really odd that after the Siege of Orgrimmar, the next time we see Varian and Sylvanas together, they're all chummy and killing demons together like old friends, even trading banter after he swore to rout the Forsaken from Lordaeron.

[Stormdash]

Yeah.

We really could've used another questline where the leaders of the Alliance, Horde, Argent Crusade, Earthen Ring, Cenarion Circle, Kirin Tor, etc. meet up and plan a strategy against the Legion. You wouldn't have any idea that Tirion is there fighting until you stumble upon the dying Argent Crusaders. Or why certain racial leaders (Lor'themar and Pals and the Council of Three Hammers, for instance) stayed behind. I find it really odd that after the Siege of Orgrimmar, the next time we see Varian and Sylvanas together, they're all chummy and killing demons together like old friends, even trading banter after he swore to rout the Forsaken from Lordaeron.

I think that was the most pleasant and believable part of the invasion -- you think every two guys in a foxhole or trenchline in the big wars liked each other? I loved the spirit of St. Crispin's of it, and their banter, and especially that really sincere moment between them before they rode from defeating Krosus. I joked that they probably were going to move some furniture after the assault if it had succeeded, but the reality is that there may well have been a new patience, a new understanding between them going forward. Much like Bolvar and Saurfang seemed to be forming.

I really think one of the big tragedies of the scenario, the emotional crushes of it, is that Varian does apparently go to his death believing she'd abandoned him needlessly, or worse, willfully -- given his shift from "for Azeroth" to "for the Alliance". And I really pity her look back at the shore when Varian dies, because I think there's guilt there; the Horde had to retreat, sure, but it wasn't her first choice. I think if she'd not had Vol'jin's clear order in front of her, she'd have stayed and fought, watching how she squeezes her eyes shut before she sounds the retreat. The animators did a kick ass job with getting emotion from the characters in all three of the Broken Shore cinematics.

I don't have any trouble believing that Lor'themar or the Three Hammers, et al, didn't go to the Shore. They were the back-up plan, the 2nd front, the continuity of leadership, etc. The contingency against total defeat. I'm a little surprised that Malfurion wouldn't have been there, given how exceptionally powerful he is in general, but overall it made sense.

[Mehrunes]

I don't have any trouble believing that Lor'themar or the Three Hammers, et al, didn't go to the Shore. They were the back-up plan, the 2nd front, the continuity of leadership, etc. The contingency against total defeat. I'm a little surprised that Malfurion wouldn't have been there, given how exceptionally powerful he is in general, but overall it made sense.

Malfurion left for Val'sharah immediately after Archimonde's death.

[Sir Andy]

given his shift from "for Azeroth" to "for the Alliance".

I dunno. I think he changed to "for the Alliance" because he had sacrificed himself so the Alliance could escape. The Horde had already left by his reckoning. He died so that his son and the others could have a fighting chance and to rally them after his death.

[My User Name]

If the horde honestly stayed, they would have all been killed rather than just Vol'Jin, which would have been way worse than retreating. The alliance would've ended up retreating anyway after that, they would have just suffered more losses. They wouldn't have even come close to touching the portal.

I don't believe even Alliance would have a chance to escape after Horde being razed by the assaulting demons. No one would ever get out of Broken Shore ALIVE.

[Deleted]

The horn should've been signal enough, Greymane went too quickly with "She obviously fell back on purpose" but can you blame him after what Sylvanas pulled during Cata?

People going "Oh the Alliance had it easy" forget the fact that Alliance was actually way deeper inland and further away from an escape than the Horde at that point as seen in how fast the Horde actually manages to get away. Oh and the Alliance ended up facing against all the demon commanders we've killed so far (Don't know how I feel about this whole "Hurr Demons can't die" thing, makes previous kills that were done using special methods seem useless <Archimonde during Mount Hyjal and Tichondrius>)


In the end we know it's to justify PVP, that said humans aren't rational beings and let emotions get the better of us. So Greymane and Jaina being pissed over Varian's dead is understandable. Anduin should've showed some more irrationality IMHO. "Oh yeah my dad died, but Demons are bigger thread ATM" while true, he should show atleast some resentment toward the Horde, while still willing to work with them. They better give us some BG/event that involves Greymane/Jaina attempting an assault on Horde positions. And hey the Alliance are the warmongers for once rather than goody two shoes. Sylvanas felt out of character though

[ManiaCCC]

Blizzard did really bad job showing real situation for both factions. While they tried in gameplay (both were fighting waves and waves of demon plus horde was obliterated by spaceships from the skies - this is when everything felt apart) ..but it wasn't show in the cinematic - basically it didn't happen. So blizzard opened can of worms in community.

However, I think it is actually quite interesting this misunderstanding happen, it will be interesting how leaders will handle that. Jaina is in "tard" mode and genn probably too, so it could lead to some interesting conflict even inside the alliance. Maybe Anduin will do something crazy, brave and unexpected and earn his leadership? Would be great.

[bufferunderrun]

Blizzard did really bad job showing real situation for both factions. While they tried in gameplay (both were fighting waves and waves of demon plus horde was obliterated by spaceships from the skies - this is when everything felt apart) ..but it wasn't show in the cinematic - basically it didn't happen. So blizzard opened can of worms in community.

However, I think it is actually quite interesting this misunderstanding happen, it will be interesting how leaders will handle that. Jaina is in "tard" mode and genn probably too, so it could lead to some interesting conflict even inside the alliance. Maybe Anduin will do something crazy, brave and unexpected and earn his leadership? Would be great.

you know what is funny, the fact that legion don't have a contested zone like ashran or tol barad, no new bgs so no new pvp storyline; the alliance and horde are pretty much out of the picture in the initial phase of the story as the major work is done by the various class halls that are cross faction so in the end they created a misunderstanding for nothing.

[Florena]

you know what is funny, the fact that legion don't have a contested zone like ashran or tol barad, no new bgs so no new pvp storyline; the alliance and horde are pretty much out of the picture in the initial phase of the story as the major work is done by the various class halls that are cross faction so in the end they created a misunderstanding for nothing.

There isn't a new bg or pvp zone but there is a horde vs alliance storyline, it's one of the two major story lines in Stormheim along with the zone's pillar of creation story.