Flat tax support, arguments for or against it?

[Endus]

You honestly believe that person who tries to pay less than that what other people tell them is "fair" is more of a free loader than the person who does nothing and only takes?

Because person A, who evades paying their taxes, is agreeing to pay those taxes as their contribution to society, and then dishonestly and illegally trying to avoid that responsibility.

Person B, who's relying on government support, is being supported by their peers in exactly the way we've collectively agreed that people in need should be supported.

So yes, Person A is a far more dishonest and reprehensible individual. They're literally the only one doing anything wrong.

[NineSpine]

All flat taxes have healthy deductions that apply equally to everyone. The fact that so many people want to chime in on what a flat tax is without even know what a flat tax is, is partly the reason it receives so much opposition.

It received opposition because it is stupid. Demand fuels the economy. Shifting the economic burden to the classes that generate the demand is asinine.

[JohnBrown1917]

Your edge has covered up any point you might think you made. The poor are not allowed to steal in any society, as STEALING is illegal.

It being illegal is not relevant, I just do not see the problem if people where stealing in a capitalistic anarchist society.
But like I said before, a revolution would be the more fitting solution to end the rich ruling over everybody.

[BannedForViews]

That depends how you define stealing. The most common form of theft in the United States is wage theft (employers stealing from employees), and it very, very, very rarely goes punished.

HOLY CRAP MARX, GET FUCKED! His theories have been thoroughly discredited. I'm not going to waste my time refuting bullshit posts that a simple google search can decimate. There is no such thing as "wage theft" as described in any communist manifesto.

[Endus]

All flat taxes have healthy deductions that apply equally to everyone. The fact that so many people want to chime in on what a flat tax is without even know what a flat tax is, is partly the reason it receives so much opposition.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/flattax.asp

Typically, a flat tax applies the same tax rate to all taxpayers, with no deductions or exemptions allowed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax

A true flat rate tax is a system of taxation where one tax rate is applied to all personal income with no deductions.

Emphases mine.

[NineSpine]

It being illegal is not relevant, I just do not see the problem if people where stealing in a capitalistic anarchist society.
But like I said before, a revolution would be the more fitting solution to end the rich ruling over everybody.

Property is theft. Property comes from one person telling another person that some piece of land is now off limits to them, even though they had the freedom to use it beforehand. Property means reducing the physical space someone else has access to, under threat of violence.

[Acidbaron]

Economically speaking, virtually nobody "does nothing". Engaging in commerce benefits society.

Generally speaking, a dollar in the hands of a wealthy person is far worse for economic growth than a dollar in the hands of a poor person. Demand fuels economies, and the wealthy are black holes for demand.

Yup, that's what a lot of people have a hard time understanding, as there seems to be some idea or even better a belief that you can only contribute to the economy if you work. This is false, even people that life of the state have a positive influence on the economy much more compared to the alternative of letting them become homeless due to no support.

[Saucexorzski]

Property is theft. Property comes from one person telling another person that some piece of land is now off limits to them, even though they had the freedom to use it beforehand. Property means reducing the physical space someone else has access to, under threat of violence.

Stop stealing my air.

[JohnBrown1917]

HOLY CRAP MARX, GET FUCKED! His theories have been thoroughly discredited. I'm not going to waste my time refuting bullshit posts that a simple google search can decimate. There is no such thing as "wage theft" as described in any communist manifesto.

I don't think any of us actually read communist manifesto here, you got any good tips on where to start? It'll help us spread the wonders of communism all over MMO-C.

[NineSpine]

HOLY CRAP MARX, GET FUCKED! His theories have been thoroughly discredited. I'm not going to waste my time refuting bullshit posts that a simple google search can decimate. There is no such thing as "wage theft" as described in any communist manifesto.

Um wat? Wage theft is when employers do things like secretly dock pay, or force people to work overtime for normal pay, or force people to work overtime for no pay. The fact that you are so unfamiliar with this fairly common term, so unfamiliar that you in fact think it comes from the communist manifesto, speaks volumes about how illiterate you are about economics and labor.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Against. A flat tax would disproportionally effect low and middle class citizens. Our current tax code doesn't really work either though. Iirc there hasn't been any major changes to it since the 20s or 30s. The economy and business are completely different now. The tax code needs to be rewritten from the ground up and they need to get rid of the gigantic loopholes that large corporations exploit.

My state has a flat tax rate and I hate it.

[alexw]

It's awfully convenient when the "reasonable anarchist" gets to depend on government support and protection in only the ways they want, while deriding others for relying on that same support in the ways they might want.

You're being deliberately and blatantly hypocritical. You're not an anarchist. All you're describing is misanthrophic selfishness.

Exactly. I think the clue is where he said he saved 3K in high school and has now multiplied it many many times. He is not interested in a belief system, he is looking for a justification for selfishness and paying as little tax as possible on whatever he has.

[NineSpine]

What country do you live in? I assume it's not the US or any other first world country. Otherwise, this is nonsense.

Hint: It was part of a hypothetical argument, not my actual situation. In reality, I'm a very well-off business owner, which makes this dorm room philosophy I'm arguing against even funnier.

[BannedForViews]

If you have a system where people making under $X amount of income don't pay any income tax, and those over that amount pay a flat rate, then you do not have a flat tax system. You have a progressive tax system, with two brackets.

A negative income tax system gets around that and remains a flat tax system by providing flat deductions, say $20,000 per adult, so if you make $18,000 a year, your net income is -$2,000, and the flat tax of 10% would mean you're owed $200.

A true flat tax rate applies that same rate to ALL income. That's what makes it "flat".

Semantics. It is a flat tax. The tax rate is flat. The end. It is a flat tax with a flat deduction, it is pretty much identical to a negative income tax except for the redistribution component.

You say 2 brackets, I say 1 bracket with a flat deduction. What is the point of your argument.

[NineSpine]

Exactly. I think the clue is where he said he saved 3K in high school and has now multiplied it many many times. He is not interested in a belief system, he is looking for a justification for selfishness and paying as little tax as possible on whatever he has.

He saved 3k while being afforded a free education at a public high school, and that's why he doesn't need no stinkin government.

- - - Updated - - -

Semantics. It is a flat tax. The tax rate is flat. The end. It is a flat tax with a flat deduction, it is pretty much identical to a negative income tax except for the redistribution component.

You say 2 brackets, I say 1 bracket with a flat deduction. What is the point of your argument.

1 bracket with a flat deduction is two brackets, just like 1 bracket with two levels of deduction is just three brackets. I could call our current tax system flat with X number of deduction levels if I wanted to.

[Endus]

Semantics. It is a flat tax. The tax rate is flat. The end. It is a flat tax with a flat deduction, it is pretty much identical to a negative income tax except for the redistribution component.

You say 2 brackets, I say 1 bracket with a flat deduction. What is the point of your argument.

The "point" is that you keep making assertions that are just objectively false, on their face.

A two-bracket system is not a "flat tax", no matter how much you wish it were.

A true flat tax allows for no deductions, despite your claim that "all" flat taxes allow for them.

You're simply using terms incorrectly.

If you work in enough deductions and such to allow for gradations in the effective tax rate, you're achieving the same result as a progressive tax bracket system, and none of the arguments in favor of a flat tax even apply any more.

[Deleted]

No one is forcing you into it. You can leave the country.

So can you if youre not happy with capitalistic democracy.

[Endus]

So can you if youre not happy with capitalistic democracy.

You do at least recognize that you are the one arguing against democratic rule, right?

[Saucexorzski]

Semantics. It is a flat tax. The tax rate is flat. The end. It is a flat tax with a flat deduction, it is pretty much identical to a negative income tax except for the redistribution component.

You say 2 brackets, I say 1 bracket with a flat deduction. What is the point of your argument.

His point to is the tax system needs to have the word progressive attached to it. Else how would the plebs know what political ideology to worship.

[Aleksej89]

Tax should be a % of your total income.

There are arguments to be made that the % tax should be higher if you earn above a certain amount.