Arms Legion Discussion

[Deleted]

Ok so from a PvP perspective, are we like just a huge glass cannon, or am I just shit at Warrior?

I cant see a way to survive other classes burst, Ive macro'd CS and DBTS together for a defensive macro, but it seems to do very little to stop anyone from obliterating me. Personally I felt like we deserved Impending Victory on like a 15-20 sec CD, but like I said maybe its just me being a bit bad.

[Valkaneer]

Ok that's what I thought, and if SD is on the target, would you wait for 3x FR before using MS ? this will cost only 1 GCD if played properly

I think you MS right away so you don't lose a potential proc.

[Deleted]

I think you MS right away so you don't lose a potential proc.

The only potential loss is a MS because you always use CS if possible.

FR's additional damage under SD is close to a MS, especially without battle cry so I think that if you're not under battle cry, SD is up, and CS is on cooldown, you better use FR while all of these conditions are true, but I'm still not sure because I didn't sim

[Archimtiros]

Simplicity might be important for guides but it can lead to misunderstanding things if overdone. Look at the priority list for example. 1. Charge, 2. CS, 3. Warbreaker.

That is an error, because it should say "CS or Warbreaker" rather than listing separate steps. Different topic entirely.

And keep in mind, the thing you're talking about has an incredibly small chance of occurring, and can also happen elsewhere. For example: Using Hamstring, using MS and FR in the same GCD sweep, etc.

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I think you MS right away so you don't lose a potential proc.

That is correct, extenuating circumstances notwithstanding.

[Valkaneer]

Arch, at what point should I go FR? Soon as you hit 110? I'm using your lvling build and have 11 points in the so far in the tree, have SD and heading toward Corrupted blood.

[Archimtiros]

Arch, at what point should I go FR? Soon as you hit 110? I'm using your lvling build and have 11 points in the so far in the tree, have SD and heading toward Corrupted blood.

You can switch at any time. Keep in mind it's not the only way to play, personally I don't find it very good for open-world questing, and you can certainly get by in dungeons with a more traditional multi-target build (FoB, OpS). FR is mainly sustained single target and low-target cleave.

[Jarlhen]

I'm a bit unclear on one more thing here. If I get a CS proc should I overwrite the current CS on the target? So always keep CS on CD no matter what?

[Valkaneer]

I'm a bit unclear on one more thing here. If I get a CS proc should I overwrite the current CS on the target? So always keep CS on CD no matter what?

Only if you have no SD. If you just CS and haven't used your MS yet, than wait for the MS so you use the SD, then CS for another SD.

[Anbokr]

I'm just hoping they buff the other options at this point. I don't expect them to be on par, but closer to FR than they are now.

This is my hope.

Really holding out that they not only nerf FR by a decent margin (50% --> 35% and then just take off the pvp nerf), but give the other talents some love. If they nerf arms' single target too heavily I don't see any reason to play the spec. Cleave/sustained AoE is pretty trash and that's pretty damn important for mythic dungeons and even the early raids imo.

Knowing blizzard though they will do something absolutely stupid like straight up nerf mortal strike or CS, thus nerfing our overall damage, sending any other build besides FR into below crap tier, and then still making you play FR lol. Hoping they prove me wrong though.

[Bigbazz]

This is my hope.

Really holding out that they not only nerf FR by a decent margin (50% --> 35% and then just take off the pvp nerf), but give the other talents some love. If they nerf arms' single target too heavily I don't see any reason to play the spec. Cleave/sustained AoE is pretty trash and that's pretty damn important for mythic dungeons and even the early raids imo.

Knowing blizzard though they will do something absolutely stupid like straight up nerf mortal strike or CS, thus nerfing our overall damage, sending any other build besides FR into below crap tier, and then still making you play FR lol. Hoping they prove me wrong though.

I don't want them to nerf it, Blizzard have a history of always overnerfing and leaving stuff underwhelming. Fury is like that right now after nerfs, Warrior spent the entirety of HFC like that after early nerfs, having a party trick that worked under perfect conditions and getting decimated elsewhere by a fucking monumental degree. I'd much rather they leave Arms just where it is and only very lightly tone it down if it is needed later, it's certainly not needed now with Monks, MM Hunters, DH's and Outlaw Rogues all doing exceptional dps comparable with Arms (and they decimate arms on multi target, give or take), and then a whole bunch of specs lagging a bit behind in the spectrum, including Fury and the other Arms specs that have good AOE but zero single target.

The FR build requires more skill to play than any of the other Warrior specs by quite a margin, whether Blizzard sees that as an "its ok for a harder spec to do more damage" situation or a "this spec separates player skill too much" situation I dunno. Removing Hamstring from the situation should be a priority, but otherwise I hope they leave it well put.

[Opeth69]

I don't want them to nerf it, Blizzard have a history of always overnerfing and leaving stuff underwhelming. Fury is like that right now after nerfs, Warrior spent the entirety of HFC like that after early nerfs, having a party trick that worked under perfect conditions and getting decimated elsewhere by a fucking monumental degree. I'd much rather they leave Arms just where it is and only very lightly tone it down if it is needed later, it's certainly not needed now with Monks, MM Hunters, DH's and Outlaw Rogues all doing exceptional dps comparable with Arms (and they decimate arms on multi target, give or take), and then a whole bunch of specs lagging a bit behind in the spectrum, including Fury and the other Arms specs that have good AOE but zero single target.

The FR build requires more skill to play than any of the other Warrior specs by quite a margin, whether Blizzard sees that as an "its ok for a harder spec to do more damage" situation or a "this spec separates player skill too much" situation I dunno. Removing Hamstring from the situation should be a priority, but otherwise I hope they leave it well put.

Unless FR is just an outlier and will soon get nerfed down to the same level as non FR arms and fury, maybe blizz want wars to be bottom tier melee for a while? Not a nice thought but judging by how crappy everything but FR is, it has to be a concern. If they nerf FR arms warriors will be in one of the worst spots compared to most for mythic raiding as we have average/poor aoe/cleave outside of cds and we get destroyed at both by unholy dks, outlaw rogues, demon hunters and even WW monks.

I kinda like having a strong ST spec for once though, I hope they keep it, warriors normally are average ST but good cleave/burst aoe with bladestorm being a big factor, it would be a really nice change to go through a tier not being carried by bladestorm and actually being able to compete on patchwork fights for the first time in a very long time

If they were to make changes though I'd like to see arms RNG smoothened out a little with CS, it really should only be a 20 second CD to help with crappy streaks. I always thought it would have been fun to bring back slam aoe, they had it in SoO for a while but it was weird and too small a range but they could have added a talent to make slam aoe everything around it removing the need for whirlwind, cleave could become a simple short cd powerful conal AOE attack. I never liked WW spam as arms, it feels great for Fury especially with the new animation but for arms it felt like they had so many options with cleave. Sweeping strikes should have just worked like blade flurry on capped targets increasing rage costs but making all spells cleave for a % of damage.

[Deleted]

Well, considering that Arms warrior Single Target DPS is slightly too high atm, it most definitely will get nerfed (along with a few other outlier specs). Especially since FR is considerably better then the other options.

[Sorshen]

This is my hope.

Really holding out that they not only nerf FR by a decent margin (50% --> 35% and then just take off the pvp nerf), but give the other talents some love. If they nerf arms' single target too heavily I don't see any reason to play the spec. Cleave/sustained AoE is pretty trash and that's pretty damn important for mythic dungeons and even the early raids imo.

Knowing blizzard though they will do something absolutely stupid like straight up nerf mortal strike or CS, thus nerfing our overall damage, sending any other build besides FR into below crap tier, and then still making you play FR lol. Hoping they prove me wrong though.

Yeah, I'd also rather see a decent MS buff (and probably slam and overpower too) and FR nerfed to 33% or something

[Anbokr]

Well, considering that Arms warrior Single Target DPS is slightly too high atm, it most definitely will get nerfed (along with a few other outlier specs). Especially since FR is considerably better then the other options.

While I do agree with that sentiment, the retort would be that the game (and magical blizz "metrics") aren't based around Patchwerk. Arms' cleave and multi-target isn't too hot so it should do fairly substantial single target. To what degree, that's up to them I guess.

[Deleted]

The FR build requires more skill to play than any of the other Warrior specs by quite a margin, whether Blizzard sees that as an "its ok for a harder spec to do more damage" situation or a "this spec separates player skill too much" situation I dunno. Removing Hamstring from the situation should be a priority, but otherwise I hope they leave it well put.

I hope that is their point of view, I mean when the over-nerfed Arms in HFC you have to feel it was because it was so simple to be top dps it took away the incentive to play a more challenging spec. On another note anyone else feel deflated every time there is a hotfix with no mention of spamstring.

[Jalopy]

I hope that is their point of view, I mean when the over-nerfed Arms in HFC you have to feel it was because it was so simple to be top dps it took away the incentive to play a more challenging spec. On another note anyone else feel deflated every time there is a hotfix with no mention of spamstring.

Knowing Blizzard it's probably not even on their radar.

[Bigbazz]

Unless FR is just an outlier and will soon get nerfed down to the same level as non FR arms and fury, maybe blizz want wars to be bottom tier melee for a while? Not a nice thought but judging by how crappy everything but FR is, it has to be a concern. If they nerf FR arms warriors will be in one of the worst spots compared to most for mythic raiding as we have average/poor aoe/cleave outside of cds and we get destroyed at both by unholy dks, outlaw rogues, demon hunters and even WW monks.

I kinda like having a strong ST spec for once though, I hope they keep it, warriors normally are average ST but good cleave/burst aoe with bladestorm being a big factor, it would be a really nice change to go through a tier not being carried by bladestorm and actually being able to compete on patchwork fights for the first time in a very long time

If they were to make changes though I'd like to see arms RNG smoothened out a little with CS, it really should only be a 20 second CD to help with crappy streaks. I always thought it would have been fun to bring back slam aoe, they had it in SoO for a while but it was weird and too small a range but they could have added a talent to make slam aoe everything around it removing the need for whirlwind, cleave could become a simple short cd powerful conal AOE attack. I never liked WW spam as arms, it feels great for Fury especially with the new animation but for arms it felt like they had so many options with cleave. Sweeping strikes should have just worked like blade flurry on capped targets increasing rage costs but making all spells cleave for a % of damage.

Part of why FR is so strong compared to the other Arms specs on single target is purely down to reduction of RNG crippling your dps, because of a decent uptime on Battle Cry (Deadly Calm) you have windows of massive raging spending to reset CS, so you have way more CS over a fight and a spec that benefits massively from free rage windows. The other builds are just crippled from lack of forward momentum in terms of rage input/output and lack of synergy in their basic functionality, unless you get perfect RNG there is nothing to keep you going, where as the FR spec has Battle Cry coming to the rescue on a regular basis and a build that synergises extremely well with it.

For sure on single target it's one of the strongest specs, and with RNG on your side it's probably only beatable by an Outlaw Rogue 6 buff bonanza. But Arms is a bit of a one trick pony. It can do it's thing on cleave too somewhat with sweeping strikes but falls a bit flat on its ass a lot of the time (maybe fixed with more haste/crit later?) outside of Battle Cry compared to running Dauntless, you run the risk with SS of still being left behind others on cleave while also sacrificing ST.

So yeah, other specs right now actually have the full arsenal, while Arms is great on single target it's not one of the best dungeon specs since those previously mentioned specs (MM, Havoc, WW, Outlaw) are nothing short of incredible on multi target whilst also up there on ST. Other Arms builds are never going to realistically compete on ST due to the way they function and the kinda buffs it would need to make it work aren't going to happen. FR is tailor made for ST dps and I think in Arms case it will be that or nothing.

I don't think I can be bothered for another expansion like WOD with Warriors Yoyoing at the start of tiers from buff to nerf because of a strong early showing and then getting outscaled into oblivion.

[Jalopy]

Is sweeping strikes bugged with execute interaction? I see a lot of times where I'll execute something for 800k crit and it'll reflect maybe <200k on the 2nd target.

[reakwon]

Is sweeping strikes bugged with execute interaction? I see a lot of times where I'll execute something for 800k crit and it'll reflect maybe <200k on the 2nd target.

I am not sure if it was meant to be that way but I see the same thing. Crits for 700k going down to 400k or 300k all the time. I thought the tooltip was wrong and it was meant to say half.

[Warriorsarri]

Short answer, yes.

Long answer, where as MS benefits from SD, FR stacks, etc. on both targets, Execute doesn't. It has to do with the fact that MS strikes both targets at the same moment, where as Execute strikes the main target, then half a second later it strikes the next one. Any buffs which falls off during the "dead period" between the two executes won't give any benefit to the second one. I've yet to test if the second Exe gains something from buffs applied in the same "dead period".