No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[Ordinator]

To be 100% honest, the only way I see myself playing Legion without Flight would be if someone were paying it for me (game+ sub).

But even so, I think I would grow frustrated in a manner similar to WoD, and end up leaving.

Sounds like an issue with yourself. Not the game.

[Deleted]

So you enjoy the game more from the ground, but the moment there's a more efficient method, you'll use that at the cost of your enjoyment. It sounds more and more like a problem of balancing the difference between flying and ground efficiency then.

This is the path of least resistance issue and is true for almost all gamers.

[SirCowdog]

This is the path of least resistance issue and is true for almost all gamers.

I think that's blatant confirmation bias. I don't believe that theory at all. Otherwise how do you explain games like Dark Souls, or EVE online? Or hardcore mode in diablo 3? Games where people are going out of there way to find the most difficult aspects.

I think that it only appears that way with the flying issue because flight is SOOOOO much more powerful than any other choice.

[Elim Garak]

In context of gaming "Path of least resistance" is a deluded way of saying "path of maximum fun". Players tend to skip parts of the game that they don't find fun.

[Idoru]

Source? For the love of fucking god please source this shit.

Blizzard: We believe that, going forward, the game will be better with no flying. (Please don't say you need a source for that...)

A few weeks later they flip flopped.

So, either they changed their minds about the game being better without flying, or they care more about pleasing whining players than what they actually think is best for their game.

Now, look at the post I quoted.
Then look at my reply again.

Could it be sarcasm?

[Connll]

Sounds like an issue with yourself. Not the game.

When people remain *not* enthusiastic even when others are paying, then yes, it *is* a problem with the game. A serious one, indeed.

But nice try.

[Hughes]

When people remain *not* enthusiastic even when others are paying, then yes, it *is* a problem with the game. A serious one, indeed.

But nice try.

A serious problem to you and those that fit in your group. That is your opinion, not ALL who play the game.

Here's what I've gotten from people who want flying back.

"I can get to places faster."

You want convenience over immersion. Simple as that.

[Connll]

Negative. We pro-fliers want a better game and an increase int he fun factor involved.

Had you taken the time to read at least 2 pages, you would be aware of that.

But then again...

[Deadite]

A serious problem to you and those that fit in your group. That is your opinion, not ALL who play the game.

Here's what I've gotten from people who want flying back.

"I can get to places faster."

You want convenience over immersion. Simple as that.

Well we can fly and you can slow walk about and be immersed up to your eyeballs. Sounds like a win/win to me.

[Idoru]

A serious problem to you and those that fit in your group. That is your opinion, not ALL who play the game.

Funny how this works both ways.

Here's what I've gotten from people who want flying back.

"I can get to places faster."

Yeah, that's called 'selective reading'

You want convenience over immersion. Simple as that.

No I don't, I want to enjoy the game. Not once have I asked for flying to be just a way of travel.

[Deleted]

So you enjoy the game more from the ground, but the moment there's a more efficient method, you'll use that at the cost of your enjoyment. It sounds more and more like a problem of balancing the difference between flying and ground efficiency then.

Also, quite a bit of a problem with risk vs reward, and pacing. I.E.: It's more efficient to fly past stuff that doesn't matter, because....it doesn't matter and doesn't help progress your character. Maybe if all the stuff on the ground was more worth dealing with, people would be more inclined to choose to do so instead of skipping past it in all its glorious irrelevance.

Would you be open to the idea of a talent-tree that made you choose between investing in ground or air mounts, where using the ground mount started to give buffs, such as preventing dismounting, staying mounted in combat, buffs to loot and damage and HP, or other things like that? Meanwhile flight gave very few, or no such buffs, but gained vertical movement and speed advantages? Thus making it a choice between convenience and power. Make changing, or respeccing, between the two expensive and/or time-consuming, ala Artifact Power cost?

Quite honestly, I'd rather they just keep doing it the way they're doing it now. I really don't think the amount of people who find flying mount to be a deal breaker is that significant at all. I've heard only a few people on forums say this and actually can't think of anyone I know that minds; if anything, I've only heard positive feedback.

Clearly, Blizzard thinks the same because they did it in WoD and they've decided to repeat it for Legion, which suggests a lot of people probably prefer it this way.

[Mafic]

yeah because nobody thought of that in all the months of "discussion" about the truly universe shaking design consequences of someone somewhere skipping a trash mob in the open world.

they changed it because it was going to cost them money and unless they are complete and utter morons they had already factored mount sales into the calculations when they were in "no more flying forever" mode therefore it was some other money that they didn't count on, probably sub cancellations that led to the about face.

That problem is still there.

With the nerf of toys and removal of goblin with goblin glider kit it is obvious they are trying to slow down players to stretch out players staying with the game. But it is having the reverse effect and burning players out. So, when will flying be added to avoid a repeat of WoD's failures? Are we witnessing a repeat scenario where they will have to do an about face because of mass exodus? Seems likely at this point.

- - - Updated - - -

On a completely unrelated note, a friend of mine decided to jump back into WoW for Legion, and wanted someone to help him out. It was my birthday a couple weeks ago, so he picked me up a copy too. So I guess now I get to critique Legion first hand without paying for it. I'm not certain how hypocritical it is for me to play it for free when I wouldn't otherwise buy it due to no-flying, but I'm at least willing to give it a fair shake.

My bro offered me to buy Legion for me and I said pass. I rather my bro buy me a good supply of cheese cake and carrot cake instead for the upcoming holiday season.

[ZulJa]

About the "don't like it don't use it" argument that's been popping up again: it's a cop-out. It means you think you know best about how WoW should be designed but don't want to actually think about game design. It'd be valid if this were an incidental feature like a cosmetic or toy that doesn't impact other systems, but flight is transformative on how players world quest and and use their gathering professions. In those contexts the limitations of travel are as much a part of the goal-challenge-reward loop as trash mobs are in a dungeon.

Trash mobs are a good example. Most players understand the role that trash plays in the overall experience of a dungeon. We want trash to be in the game. This doesn't mean we don't skip trash at every opportunity, or would choose to do it for its own sake if it were optional and had no other incentive. This isn't some paradox, it's a result of WoW being a videogame where the fun comes from the push and pull of the player having an objective the game designers putting obstacles in the way of achieving it. When we're talking about dungeon content nobody suddenly pretends that WoW is a freeform sandbox game where player choice is of singular importance.

So why for world content? Maybe because historically world content has been of so much less relevance than dungeon content. People have been trained to see it as an extension of the game menu rather than the actual game. But that isn't the case anymore and any argument for or against flying needs to be about game design.

[Mafic]

Game design argument went out the window 2 years ago.

And Ion Hazzikostas just said that players will outgear the NPC's of Broken Isles well before the first raid drops in his latest Q/A. The Broken Isles will be trivialized well before patch 7.1 arrives so there is no valid reason to withhold flight other to slow down players.

[Ordinator]

Blizzard: We believe that, going forward, the game will be better with no flying. (Please don't say you need a source for that...)

A few weeks later they flip flopped.

So, either they changed their minds about the game being better without flying, or they care more about pleasing whining players than what they actually think is best for their game.

Now, look at the post I quoted.
Then look at my reply again.

Could it be sarcasm?

In other words.. you have no source. It's okay. I knew you didn't because there is no source. Nothing but pure confirmation bias on your behalf.

[Mafic]

Well we can fly and you can slow walk about and be immersed up to your eyeballs. Sounds like a win/win to me.

It is that simple and everyone has choice. Currently there is no choice.

More choices = more fun.

[kencloudli]

I admit that no flying does give immersion to the game, but I really hope they will put back flying. I actually like what they did in WOD, since I can make an effort to get flying again. Looking at World Quests, flying would've made it so much easier to complete them, but I guess that's how Blizzard is trying to stall time and make players stay longer in-game. I prefer to experience everything on ground and then gain flying for convenience, rather than restrict me forever on ground.

[Re1ax]

tl;dr entire thread: Waaaaaaah I have to do something in an MMO to unlock flying, hand it to me or I quit!

Bye.

[Ordinator]

That problem is still there.

With the nerf of toys and removal of goblin with goblin glider kit it is obvious they are trying to slow down players to stretch out players staying with the game. But it is having the reverse effect and burning players out. So, when will flying be added to avoid a repeat of WoD's failures? Are we witnessing a repeat scenario where they will have to do an about face because of mass exodus? Seems likely at this point.

I don't understand how you get away with saying stuff. Do you have access to some sort of player count that nobody else does and are just watching numbers drop while also having access to an exit poll nobody else can see? Because otherwise you're just speculating players are leaving and speculating why they are leaving..

And the goblin glider kit has literally been untouched. Still a 3 minute cooldown. The entirety of your post is a bunch of nonsense and you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I think that's blatant confirmation bias. I don't believe that theory at all. Otherwise how do you explain games like Dark Souls, or EVE online? Or hardcore mode in diablo 3? Games where people are going out of there way to find the most difficult aspects.

I think that it only appears that way with the flying issue because flight is SOOOOO much more powerful than any other choice.

People go for challenging content..........

Where everyone else who is playing that game is on equal footing. Someone else who chooses to play hard core is bound by the same ruleset as you playing hardcore. When it comes to competitive play, people don't want to play with handicaps. And as much as you may argue that there's nothing competitive about getting around the world faster... there is, and people feel it is. Especially for people who have work and real life obligations and time is a limited resource for them.

As far as your response to me about grappling, it exists in two zones of the games. As the deva said there was originally a leveling "flow' to the zones and it was pretty obviously left toright then suramar. The grappling mechanic allowed them to make suramar city questing a lot more interesting. You have to swim through canals and run across rooftops to avoid detection to reach your target, whether it's assassination, delivery or saving. With flight, suramar would be a hundred times less interesting.

Of course they could have made a "no fly barrier" for that part of the zone to maintain its unique nature of questing, but they haven't needed to thus far with no flight. I do believe that when they put flight in, suramar should have no fly restrictions still. It's an amazing city filled with cool mechanics for transportation and flight negates them all.