So, the Night Elves are right about everything?

[Aquamonkey]

It also says it quite plainly in the in game history books you find all over Azeroth.

Those are slightly modified from the WC3 manual. Neither says anything to directly link the two. They only say vague things like "nocturnal humanoids." The controversy was canonized as in-universe speculation on the old Blizzard website in the Troll Compendium and Warcraft Encyclopedia pages.

[Imnick]

It has absolutely been confirmed that Night Elves are descended from Trolls. More than once. Most recently in the WoW Chronicle which leaves no ambiguity whatsoever in its description of the transformation.
It's no longer speculation, it's canon fact.

"The dark trolls cherished their independence from greater troll society, and they largely ignored the activities of other tribes. Unlike hteir Gurubashi and Amani cousins, they longed for a peaceful connection to the natural world. Dark troll mystics often soguth ways to commune with the land and live in harmony with it. Many of these trolls gradually migrated towards the center of Kalimdor. They explored the labyrinthine groves at the heart of the continent, crossing paths with the elusive faerie dragons, chimaeras, and dryads. In time, the dark trolls also discovered an enormous lake of scintillating energies, a lake they would later know as the Well of Eternity.
Mesmerised by their discovery, the dark trolls settled along the Well of Eternity's shores. Over generations, the energies radiating from the lake suffused the trolls' flesh and bones, elevating their forms to match their graceful spirits. They transofmred into highly intelligent and virtually immortal beings. These former trolls gradually abandoned their ancient heritage and traditions. The tribe's mystics began worshipping the moon goddess, Elune, who they believed was bound to the Well of Eternity itself. They claimed that the deity slumbered within the fount's depths during daylight hours.
The former trolls also discovered the name "Kalimdor" and other titan-forged words from communing with Elune and investigating strange artifact scattered around the Well's periphery.
Influenced by this newfound language, they called themselves kaldorei - "children of the stars" - or night elves.

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I thought they were a more developed version of Troggs.

I don't think it's actually been spelled out anywhere exactly what they are other than that they were, for a long time, slaves of Deathwing.
It isn't impossible that he somehow used his earthwarder powers to elevate Troggs (themselves earth-linked creatures) into a more advanced state I guess?

[Budong]

Those are slightly modified from the WC3 manual. Neither says anything to directly link the two. They only say vague things like "nocturnal humanoids." The controversy was canonized as in-universe speculation on the old Blizzard website in the Troll Compendium and Warcraft Encyclopedia pages.

I remember reading one of those books I believe in Booty Bay and it said quite plainly that the elves were descended from trolls.

[RedNight at MMOC]

Forgot that the Naga and Satyrs are transformed versions of Elves already?

I remember reading one of those books I believe in Booty Bay and it said quite plainly that the elves were descended from trolls.

The Titans plucked Y'shaarj from Azeroth, killing the Old God, but also leaving a wound in the world. The Titans created a magical barrier to patch the wound - this is the Well of Eternity. A group of Trolls (known as the Dark Trolls) settled around this well, and over the years the magical influence of the Well evolved the Trolls into the Night Elves. -Very brief summary derived from World of Warcraft Chronicle: Volume 1

[brob]

I thought they were a more developed version of Troggs.

i do remeber a elf in the jewelcrafting quest rether to one as a stone troll.
and there was stuff in the chronicles with dark trolls living in tunnels.
maybe they were the trolls that didnt go to the well and stayed underground then being enslaved by neltharion. also explains there proximity to suramar

[Cerus]

It has absolutely been confirmed that Night Elves are descended from Trolls. More than once. Most recently in the WoW Chronicle which leaves no ambiguity whatsoever in its description of the transformation.
It's no longer speculation, it's canon fact.



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I don't think it's actually been spelled out anywhere exactly what they are other than that they were, for a long time, slaves of Deathwing.
It isn't impossible that he somehow used his earthwarder powers to elevate Troggs (themselves earth-linked creatures) into a more advanced state I guess?

Nope. It doesn't say trolls - it's still a vague reference to a nocturnal humanoid. The trolls we know today aren't their ancestors. Both descended from something else.

[Hellspawn]

Nope. It doesn't say trolls - it's still a vague reference to a nocturnal humanoid. The trolls we know today aren't their ancestors. Both descended from something else.

It is troll to be specific dark troll.

[Qualia]

Nope. It doesn't say trolls - it's still a vague reference to a nocturnal humanoid. The trolls we know today aren't their ancestors. Both descended from something else.

? Pretty sure it stated clearly that it was dark trolls there over and over. Requoting that post of Imnick and bolding the important part so you can check:

The dark trolls cherished their independence from greater troll society, and they largely ignored the activities of other tribes. Unlike their Gurubashi and Amani cousins, they longed for a peaceful connection to the natural world. Dark troll mystics often sought ways to commune with the land and live in harmony with it. Many of these trolls gradually migrated towards the center of Kalimdor. They explored the labyrinthine groves at the heart of the continent, crossing paths with the elusive faerie dragons, chimaeras, and dryads. In time, the dark trolls also discovered an enormous lake of scintillating energies, a lake they would later know as the Well of Eternity.


Mesmerised by their discovery, the dark trolls settled along the Well of Eternity's shores. Over generations, the energies radiating from the lake suffused the trolls' flesh and bones, elevating their forms to match their graceful spirits. They transformedinto highly intelligent and virtually immortal beings. These former trolls gradually abandoned their ancient heritage and traditions. The tribe's mystics began worshipping the moon goddess, Elune, who they believed was bound to the Well of Eternity itself. They claimed that the deity slumbered within the fount's depths during daylight hours.

The former trolls also discovered the name "Kalimdor" and other titan-forged words from communing with Elune and investigating strange artifact scattered around the Well's periphery.

Influenced by this newfound language, they called themselves kaldorei - "children of the stars" - or night elves.

[Danthon]

Lol, yea, they are wrong about being descended from trolls, but that pales in comparison to the new fact that they are the (at least for the last 10,0000 years after the sundering) the chosen people of the ONE TRUE GOD. It's amazing how people fail to realize how this homogenization affects the other races cultures and makes them meaningless, and makes their people seem lesser.

[Shedeo]

i do remeber a elf in the jewelcrafting quest rether to one as a stone troll.
and there was stuff in the chronicles with dark trolls living in tunnels.
maybe they were the trolls that didnt go to the well and stayed underground then being enslaved by neltharion. also explains there proximity to suramar

They've got an oddly high number of toes and fingers for trolls, though they do have some similarities. I wouldn't be surprised if Neltharion did some hoodoo and combined troggs and trolls.

[Mehrunes]

Nope. It doesn't say trolls - it's still a vague reference to a nocturnal humanoid. The trolls we know today aren't their ancestors. Both descended from something else.

It outright says Trolls. Nine times. Zero mentions of nocturnal anything. In other words, you replied to something you haven't even read.

[Zulkhan]

Those are slightly modified from the WC3 manual. Neither says anything to directly link the two. They only say vague things like "nocturnal humanoids."

Actually, one talked of "nocturnal beings" turning into Night Elves; the other talked of Dark Trolls turning into beings of great power thanks to a powerful fount of magic.

So yeah, singularly the sources didn't draw the connection, but doing a mere 2+2 by connecting the two sources yourself gave you the answer already.

It outright says Trolls. Nine times. Zero mentions of nocturnal anything. In other words, you replied to something you haven't even read.

Yeah, he pretty much talked about what he vaguely remembered from the WC3 manual outiright ignoring the Chronicle quote posted on his face. Gotta love the Lore section for these gems.

[Aquamonkey]

Actually, one talked of "nocturnal beings" turning into Night Elves; the other talked of Dark Trolls turning into beings of great power thanks to a powerful fount of magic.

So yeah, singularly the sources didn't draw the connection, but doing a mere 2+2 by connecting the two sources yourself gave you the answer already.

Only the WoW Magazine and Chronicle said it was definitely trolls. WC3, the in-game version, the version on the official website, also the Troll Compendium and Warcraft Encyclopedia said "nocturnal humanoids" was the only thing known for certain.

The in-game book The Twin Empires doesn't confirm anything. It merely pushes the in-universe speculation similar to the Troll Compendium and WC Encyclopedia.

"However, ancient texts speak of a small faction of trolls that broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, these brave pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity which transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggest that these adventurous trolls were the first Night Elves, though this theory has never been proven."

[GrumpyJester]

Only the WoW Magazine and Chronicle said it was definitely trolls. WC3, the in-game version, the version on the official website, also the Troll Compendium and Warcraft Encyclopedia said "nocturnal humanoids" was the only thing known for certain.

The in-game book The Twin Empires doesn't confirm anything. It merely pushes the in-universe speculation similar to the Troll Compendium and WC Encyclopedia.

"However, ancient texts speak of a small faction of trolls that broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, these brave pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity which transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggest that these adventurous trolls were the first Night Elves, though this theory has never been proven."

Not sure what point you're trying to make here (if any)? It used to be uncertain. Now it is certain. Night Elves were once Dark Trolls.

[Aquamonkey]

Not sure what point you're trying to make here (if any)? It used to be uncertain. Now it is certain. Night Elves were once Dark Trolls.

The point is that people have been pointing to in-game materials as definitive proof of the idea, when it was only presented as in-universe speculation. It wasn't confirmed as fact until later.

[Zulkhan]

Only the WoW Magazine and Chronicle said it was definitely trolls. WC3, the in-game version, the version on the official website, also the Troll Compendium and Warcraft Encyclopedia said "nocturnal humanoids" was the only thing known for certain.

The in-game book The Twin Empires doesn't confirm anything. It merely pushes the in-universe speculation similar to the Troll Compendium and WC Encyclopedia.

"However, ancient texts speak of a small faction of trolls that broke off from the Amani Empire and founded their own colony in the heart of the dark continent. There, these brave pioneers discovered the cosmic Well of Eternity which transformed them into beings of immense power. Some legends suggest that these adventurous trolls were the first Night Elves, though this theory has never been proven."

I didn't say the in-game material confirmed anything, but it was crafted in a way that still made it obvious even without literally confirming it. As I said, the single sources either spoke theorically or avoided factual clarifications, but read together they basically gave the answer despite being "unconfirmed" at the time.

[AeneasBK]

The lore of this expansion really feels like Blizzard apologizing and then greatly overcompensating for the years of neglect Night Elves have gotten.

really feels like Blizzard apologizing and then greatly overcompensating for the years of neglect Night Elves have gotten.

greatly overcompensating for the years of neglect Night Elves have gotten.

years of neglect Night Elves have gotten.

years of neglect

Fucking WHEN?

You talking pre Warcraft 3 all of a sudden?