No automated group finder for Mythic is a problem.

[daenerys]

Oh I know tank people, but the tanks in my guild played a lot in the first week so all 3 are in the 845-850 range. There is no incentive for them to carry people and from the other end using people (or befriending them) just for gear is kind of scummy too.

There are some good incentives for an i845 tank to want to help carry lesser geared guildees. While an 845 geared tank may be able to get into groups of i840+, that doesn't necessarily mean their good, just more margin for error. Speaking as an i845 tank, I would be happy to help a few lesser geared guildees gear up, if it meant establishing a reliable guild group to do mythic+ dungeons with from week to week.

[Jtbrig7390]

You seem to clearly be inexperienced with Blizzard. No, they wouldn't specifically post a blog defending dungeons being hard just for no reason.

Ya I'm inexperienced with blizzard.....Isn't like I been playing there games since they started making them.

Also that blog post people like you bring up forget something. They turned around and made another after, remember what that one was about....

[Deleted]

Its almost like different people like and do different things.

And it's almost like there is different style content available for these different people! Strange huh?

[Jewsco]

I don't even want to do Mythics, but quests are sending me there so I have no choice. I have 836 ilvl and when I try to find a group here's what happens: "link achievement or GTFO". Right.
Second option would be going in as a tank, as my class has a tanking spec, but I don't know the "things to do" and certainly won't learn them by not going there. I did play hardcore a loooong time ago and know reading about it is not enough.

The only reason I want to go there is for the story, and, well, I can't. Looks like Legion was nice for two weeks only.

It called get a guild or friends and this isn't a problem. This is a mmo after all and doing stuff with others should be expected. No , I don't want mythics queable that would make them a nightmare some normals are tough on lfd and most heroics are near impossible.
So no thanks on that.

- - - Updated - - -

I still don't fully get the mindset. They are pushing Mythics really hard this go around. They have quests tied to them and they have mythic only dungeons. and then Mythics are really just heroics with a new title and weekly lockout. So why not just make it part of the que system? I hear it's because of the new Mythic++ model, I still don't get why they can't be separated.

I guess we'll just go with Blizzard wants people to use the group tool more to build their own groups, so they can STFU about always getting baddies in LFG. I do giggle at the groups wanting 840+ to join.

Or possibly they are encouraging us to join guilds? Did you think of that?

[Deleted]

I still don't fully get the mindset. They are pushing Mythics really hard this go around. They have quests tied to them and they have mythic only dungeons. and then Mythics are really just heroics with a new title and weekly lockout. So why not just make it part of the que system? I hear it's because of the new Mythic++ model, I still don't get why they can't be separated.

Why is it hard to get? Raids work exactly like that.
You get the "easy faceroll" in LFR - where you can participate with just clicking the queue button. You get Normals and Heroics where you have flexible raid size and you can manually add people accross the realms with the Group Finder tool. And then you have Mythic - there you can't use the Group Finder, it's not cross realm and you pretty much have to have a static guild group.

Dungeons offer same kind of variety for everyone. Some will just want (and be able to participate) in the auto-queue finders, some will advance to mythic and some will be pushing mythic+ as their end-game.

Not everything is suitable for streamlined, automatic-queue, easy-access. Some of it is meant to require some effort to put together. It's by design.

[Deleted]

There are some good incentives for an i845 tank to want to help carry lesser geared guildees. While an 845 geared tank may be able to get into groups of i840+, that doesn't necessarily mean their good, just more margin for error. Speaking as an i845 tank, I would be happy to help a few lesser geared guildees gear up, if it meant establishing a reliable guild group to do mythic+ dungeons with from week to week.

It's the neverending issue with imbalance between amount of tanks and healers/dps isn't it? How many tanks do you really need? Three? ( especially now with the whole artifact thing) You have 5-7 healers and lets say 15-18 dps. You always end up with people that either need to be pity carried or have to trudge through the depths of the LFG spam. But unless wow goes for a complete 180 and uses the GW2 system of roles that won't ever change.

[davesurfer]

I don't even want to do Mythics, but quests are sending me there so I have no choice. I have 836 ilvl and when I try to find a group here's what happens: "link achievement or GTFO". Right.
Second option would be going in as a tank, as my class has a tanking spec, but I don't know the "things to do" and certainly won't learn them by not going there. I did play hardcore a loooong time ago and know reading about it is not enough.

The only reason I want to go there is for the story, and, well, I can't. Looks like Legion was nice for two weeks only.

My wife and I are heals and tank. We only require 830 when we pug for DPS. We don't require achievements. If you are an asshat, we will kick you, but that is about it.

Have 830 and don't be an asshat. Fairly easy requirements

[Deleted]

All in all, I think you're just butthurt that people have high req for their groups.

By all means ask for Edge. I will know not to touch your listing. But don't do it on after week 1. How am I supposed to get the achives you want? It's like you're 21 and must have 25 years of job experience.

[daenerys]

It's the neverending issue with imbalance between amount of tanks and healers/dps isn't it? How many tanks do you really need? Three? ( especially now with the whole artifact thing) You have 5-7 healers and lets say 15-18 dps. You always end up with people that either need to be pity carried or have to trudge through the depths of the LFG spam. But unless wow goes for a complete 180 and uses the GW2 system of roles that won't ever change.

There's a smaller difference now than ever between tank gear and dps gear. Only trinkets won't switch, and most trinkets that drop for tanks in dungeons so far are basically dps trinkets anyways. All a guild needs in your scenerio is a couple of the healers/dps to be able to be competent tanks. Also not all guilds have a 20+ size raid team able to do mythics. Many raid groups are in the 12-15 size where the tank/healer/dps ration to make mythic groups is more optimal.

[Osmeric]

Challenging people to form their own groups and having a more social experience is not a problem. If you think it is, please go find yourself another game.

It is a problem, since apparently so few people can be bothered to do it. There's some sort of impediment that a great many people have.

It might have to do with the personality types of those who like sitting alone in a room playing computer games for hours each day.

Commercial game designers who don't take such characteristics of their customers into account will eventually become ex-designers, btw. They can't just say "you are not the customers we want, go play something else" if those customers are sufficiently numerous.

[alucardtnuoc]

Dont even start with that. Determination and LFD buffs are cancer on its own.

Don't start with what? I'm just pointing out that the LFD system currently adds a buff to the group based on how many are solo. So by adding mythic to it, they need to either remove that buff and deal with people complaining that the content is too hard or leave it and it's automatically nerfed.

[caervek]

I don't see where you think thats true, or that means anything. Heroics are heroics. Mythic is mythic.

In Legion they have renamed Normal to Heroic, renamed Heroic to Mythic, and added an extra easy normal mode. This will be offset by the Mythic+ modes being as hard as WoD mythics and more, however at the moment it's a big problem because the high end launch dungeons have a 7 day lockout compared to 24h in every previous expansion.

[Eurhetemec]

I still don't fully get the mindset. They are pushing Mythics really hard this go around. They have quests tied to them and they have mythic only dungeons. and then Mythics are really just heroics with a new title and weekly lockout. So why not just make it part of the que system? I hear it's because of the new Mythic++ model, I still don't get why they can't be separated.

I guess we'll just go with Blizzard wants people to use the group tool more to build their own groups, so they can STFU about always getting baddies in LFG. I do giggle at the groups wanting 840+ to join.

That's what confuses me, too.

I haven't tried the new Mythics, having last played heavily early in WoD, but everyone who plays them tells me they're basically akin to Heroics in early WotLK, so challenging but not hugely or unreasonably so.

Yet not having any kind of LFD feature means that people joining groups have to deal with all the same problems as LFD, plus bonus random "elitism" - which isn't even consistent like gearscore sometimes was - sometimes people are getting rejected for not having the achieve (so they say!), sometimes not for really high ilvl, sometimes for being the wrong class/spec, etc.

It's only arguably better for people forming groups, too.

To be fair, I'm not super-concerned. I play tank and intend to form my own groups for Mythic stuff but still, it just seems a bit like Blizzard are trying to redefine how grouping works for this kind of content, but without really making any effort to change the community or prepare it.

[cFortyfive]

Even the heroic achievements.

Sure except there is even a blue post where they mentioned they did want those achievements specifically be done by organized groups probably.
No name was changed but keep on going with that not backed by anything argument. Also your memory of mop heroics specifically is hilarious - again you could pull whole instances the second you hit 100.

In Legion they have renamed Normal to Heroic, renamed Heroic to Mythic, and added an extra easy normal mode. This will be offset by the Mythic+ modes being as hard as WoD mythics and more, however at the moment it's a big problem because the high end launch dungeons have a 7 day lockout compared to 24h in every previous expansion.

The latter fact alone should kinda tell you nothing has just been renamed.

[Eurhetemec]

My wife and I are heals and tank. We only require 830 when we pug for DPS. We don't require achievements. If you are an asshat, we will kick you, but that is about it.

Have 830 and don't be an asshat. Fairly easy requirements

Haven't got to Mythic yet but I'm in the same situation (wife and I heals and tank - depending on who is playing what) and I intend to have the same requirements - #1 is don't be an asshat, followed by 830-ish ilvl. So good to hear I'm not alone in thinking this.

[Yriel]

Blizzard is moving away from queueable content. Get used to it.

Nonsense.
They have a few higher-ups that are fans of oldschool MMOs so they try stuff like that in small doses in every expansion but it never connects with the players and they always reverse it in the end.

You see the pattern if you play long enough.

[Eats Compost]

Except non keystone mythics are as easy as heroics were in previous expansions. Putting them in lfd would make literally no difference compared to how it used to be. Taking them OUT if lfd will be making a massive negative impact and I can't wait to see blizzard stumbling through justifying it when all is said and done.

I've been playing since vanilla. I will NEVER willingly go back to how shitty looking for group was back then. As it is, I'll be world questing for gearing up and wait til blizzard pulls it's head out of its ass to do mythics. Considering how I've gotten the expansion dungeon hero achievements throug lfg groups and never through premades, I'm not worried about any supposed social impact reverting the system will have.

I completely disagree with the idea that non-keystone mythics are on-par with previous expansions' heroics. If you look at the numbers, they simply aren't. They're not really that challenging or anything, but it seems crazy to say that they're the same as heroics. Legion heroics are still pretty much the equivalent of past heroics.

One thing that might be giving you the impression that they're on the same level is that premade groups tend to have less pants-on-head activity by default. I can guarantee that if I were going with an LFD group rather than a premade or group finder, I'd be seeing a lot more people go splat to various "bad thing on ground" mechanics.

[caervek]

The latter fact alone should kinda tell you nothing has just been renamed.

It's the same difficulty, it's the same quality of loot (in comparison to quests/etc), the only thing that's changed is the name and the gating to try and stop people realising that Legion has no more content than WoD did (which actually backfires because it means there's less to do in Legion as you can't run the dungeons each day).

[Heaterz 88]

you mean blizz is actually keepting things real for once and making you find a group for higher end content? OY VEY SHUT IT DOWN

[Thelin]

I've pugged Arcway and Court of stars as well as a few other ones and had zero issue. Make your own group and nobody has ever asked for achievements. Hell I just require Ilvl 825+ and that's pretty much it, never had any issues. If someone has the ilvl but sucks then they just get booted and we find someone else.