Unhappy with Warlocks? Use the upcoming Dev Q&A #LegionQA

[n0n3]

I think their only solution is to focus on destruction, the other two specs are simply unplayable at a high level.
We need at least one spec viable and destruction is easy enough that doesn't needs many mechanical changes to make it viable, make RoF cost 1 shard, change the mastery to something else so it's less random and gives us back the old GoSac so we can fuckin interrupt.

[Demonidze]

I think most complains are about gameplay and rotation more than only number. But if this is what it is about, my destro Shadowburns / Soul Conduit (no incinerate / chaos bolt in rotation) pulls 240k on trash and steady 210k on boss at ilvl830. My havoc DH (i am a complete noob with it) pulls 300k+ on aoe and steady 230k on boss..at ilvl 810...kinda show balance in numbers.

So i would think there is a problem with Demo dps number as well imo considering your ilvl. Honest question: are you speced in Demonbolt / Hand of Doom?

Personnaly i won't complain and love the new Destro. I wish Demo had less DE spam and more big hitting demons (close to the 35-40% dps from pet from BM hunter).

demon bolt. i could speced hand of doom + darkglare but then my single target dps will be kind of meh .. note that i didnt went for shadowflame, already got like 10 buttons to press on a regular basis. i would agree that some spells doesnt feel like fun and more like never ending maintenance fight to keep everything going.. but just look at this forum, and official forums.. people whine out loud that they do bad dps. thats it.. dps.. not mechanics.

[Deleted]

if you do 240k single target so easily with just 810 ilvl then you probably the god of destro locks, very impressive numbers.

You might want to read his comment again...you just took 240, single target, 810 and put them in the same sentence lol

[Demonidze]

You might want to read his comment again...you just took 240, single target, 810 and put them in the same sentence lol

oopsie.. yea i misread it, my bad.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Tinuvial

I'd still be a touch skeptical and sim yourself etc, but yeah when it comes to rings / necks a socket alone is worth something like 20 ilvls since jewelry sees a very tiny increase in stat. I think its like 100 stat for 15 ilvls.

On other pieces without the socket it should require some more napkin math.

[Septik]

I must be the only warlock in the world without any issues finding group for mythics. Did mythics for 2 weeks without any issues, i beat them in the first day.

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> Soul shard generation low
> high downtime with lots of incinerate

You obviously didnt play the beta. Wait until you get your artifact weapon talented with immolate crit trait leveled + relic and legendary belt + tier set + good haste. You'll barely cast incinerate you'll swim in shards.

If they buff destruction's native shard generation they'll need to nerf tier and legendary belt

ive seen more warlocks do well in 5mans (any difficulty) so far than ive seen be a drain on the group like everyone is making them out to be. is this just a difference between bad, mediocre and good players? seems to be the same thing happening bear tanks, the good ones are great and the mediocre ones are rerolling.

[Deleted]

I just want destruction to be more interesting. There is no way on earth that you can argue our spells interact with eachother.

Why does our imp just get a flat damage increase to make it numerically the "right" pet to use? What about the old talent that made imp firebolt have a chance to make your next spell a guaranteed crit? That would be more interesting, and it would be nice to have something to react / adjust to.

I also want an interrupt. It is laughable that locks don't get something as simple as that. I do enjoy using havoc properly, I like having Shadow Burn (Which is likely gonna get changed, or at least the competing talents will), and as I've said a few times, I still want to play warlock. This has nothing to do with liking the fire mage playstyle, it has everything to do with destruction simply not having any kind of interactions that you can theorycraft / think about.

I feel like a broken record, but all our spells are completely isolated from eachother. There is nothing about Chaos Bolt that makes you want to follow chaos bolt with something else (Not even as a proc), there is nothing about incinerate that makes you want to use it at specific times over something else, etc. It all comes down to a few very simple rules that you follow, and most of those are so obvious that I don't see how anyone can not know what to do. Knowing it and actually doing it are two different things, but the lack of interactivity and decision making is obvious.

I just hope the demonology "revamp revamp" is going to make it more forgiving and less tedious, because the idea of running around with a small army (Withered training but everywhere) is appealing to me. At least more appealing than having nuke X, Y, Z that all just do damage, plain and simple.

The doomguard and fellhunter do have an interrupt, you can just macro it if you want to control it (like every warlock should do)

[Deleted]

The doomguard and fellhunter do have an interrupt, you can just macro it if you want to control it (like every warlock should do)

Destruction is completely railroaded into using an imp and / or sacrifice, both of which lack an interupt. No other class needs to hamstring themself to interupt, so if there's any interupt requirement in a dungeon / raid.

There's a reason we moved away from having 1 curse limits and 1 warlock having to COS while the others get to COA.

[Baconeggcheese]

ive seen more warlocks do well in 5mans (any difficulty) so far than ive seen be a drain on the group like everyone is making them out to be. is this just a difference between bad, mediocre and good players? seems to be the same thing happening bear tanks, the good ones are great and the mediocre ones are rerolling.

Wait people think bear tanks are bad? That's about as hilarious as my GM's friend quitting because he thinks fire mages are terrible.

They really increased the gap between skill levels with the changes to lock, the specs are objectively harder to play than they were for the last 2 xpacs (excluding demo especially during mop, cause that was a mess) so you're going to see people who got used to doing decent to good dps because the class was easier to pull numbers on being frustrated and saying the class is shit because they aren't capable of playing to the classes potential.

[Lou Sanders]

I have 12,000 haste rating with Demo, and the rotation feels very smooth (my opinion, obviously), and I have no problems doing 200,000 DPS in Mythics, and 300,000 DPS when Lust/Hero is popped. I have never been kicked from a group before.

I have a feeling Demo is going to be fine looking forward, especially if you can get lucky and get both Wilfred's Ring and the Sin'dorei Bracers (I do not have either yet). I think we're just really gear dependent, but it works.

The biggest drawback is obviously how highly inflated Haste is for Demo. I do not take any gear unless it has Haste on it. Also getting double World Quest trinkets with Int/Haste on it seems mandatory. The more passive, the better it is for Demo.

[Deleted]

Quick question, related to all the hubbub going on in here I guess:

Are "bad classes" - of which warlock is now assumed to be one - getting snubbed in group finder? I'm 843 (so easily fulfilling any requirement anybody may have) and am being declined by about 90% of the pugs I sign up for, and I'm wondering if any of you are experiencing similar?

For the record I think warlocks are doing fine, and I'm topping damage in most dungeons, heroic and mythic, with both destruction and demonology. But I've seen plenty of people in trade chat and guild chat and all the other chat say they've not seen a warlock who isn't trash, and thus I'm wondering if warlocks in general are being turned away at the door because of this reputation we're getting.

[Baconeggcheese]

@Olorout I've heard of other people saying similar things are happening to them, but I can't say I've personally experienced it. Granted I do most things with my guild.

[Turturin the Warlock]

@Olorout I've heard of other people saying similar things are happening to them, but I can't say I've personally experienced it. Granted I do most things with my guild.

I don't pug mythics, but when I do random heroics for AP, the group always seems surprised by my damage output. So I do think this perception is a bit of a thing.

And bear tanks are good, they'll be even better if some of the bugs are fixed

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@Tinuvial

I'd still be a touch skeptical and sim yourself etc, but yeah when it comes to rings / necks a socket alone is worth something like 20 ilvls since jewelry sees a very tiny increase in stat. I think its like 100 stat for 15 ilvls.

On other pieces without the socket it should require some more napkin math.

Also of note is that this applies at current gear level. Since ilvl is non-linear scaling, gems won't be nearly as good later in the expac as they are now compared to ilvl upgrades. But yeah I agree with your basic guidelines for current state.

[Lisa Frank Succubus]

Wait people think bear tanks are bad? That's about as hilarious as my GM's friend quitting because he thinks fire mages are terrible.

They really increased the gap between skill levels with the changes to lock, the specs are objectively harder to play than they were for the last 2 xpacs (excluding demo especially during mop, cause that was a mess) so you're going to see people who got used to doing decent to good dps because the class was easier to pull numbers on being frustrated and saying the class is shit because they aren't capable of playing to the classes potential.

Really? They did? I've always been a mediocre, clumsy player but I'm one of the people doing really well at destro so far. It honestly doesn't feel that hard to me but maybe I'm just not giving myself enough credit, I've played warlock for over 10 years so maybe I've graduated from mediocre to average+.

That's hilarious about your GM, I hear so many people going on about how great mages are but then I go to the forums and see mages saying how awful they are.

Quick question, related to all the hubbub going on in here I guess:

Are "bad classes" - of which warlock is now assumed to be one - getting snubbed in group finder? I'm 843 (so easily fulfilling any requirement anybody may have) and am being declined by about 90% of the pugs I sign up for, and I'm wondering if any of you are experiencing similar?

I think its mostly paranoia when people assumie its because they are a warlock and that's why they were declined unless it was outright stated when they zoned in and were kicked after some trash. DPS is a dime a dozen in group finder and plenty of things go into the equation, like maybe someone else with a higher item level applied or a friend/guildie volunteered to join the last dps slot. I get accepted to groups but I get declined to many too, I don't attribute that to me being a warlock honestly.

I've started just starting my own groups with some success. Not hard at all.

As for warlock being a "bad" class, I disagree. I think some of its specs do better than others right now but that's always been the case for any class. If anything is detrimental its this mass crying about how bad warlocks are. I haven't run into any people yet who have said "Wow, warlocks are suppose to be bad..how do you do so much dps?!" but its only a few weeks into the expansion. I can more than pull my weight so if people start rejecting me from groups due to my class I'm going to blame the people who couldn't shut up crying on message boards.

[Lucrece]

They also added a lot of stuff, it's not only that they took things. I myself am annoyed about the fact that Shadowburn and F&B became talents, but on the other hand we got Rifts, LoF and Wreck Havoc which are amazing new toys we did not have before.

People have a tendency to complain about what we "lost" and disregard quite substantial things we got, which is unfair imo.

They also added artifact abilities to other classes, you can't just look at them as unique warlock additions, while you can't say the same of other classes having talents made of recycled baseline abilities. Several classes gained entirely new rows of abilities from talents, adding to their already existing arsenal.

Quick question, related to all the hubbub going on in here I guess:

Are "bad classes" - of which warlock is now assumed to be one - getting snubbed in group finder? I'm 843 (so easily fulfilling any requirement anybody may have) and am being declined by about 90% of the pugs I sign up for, and I'm wondering if any of you are experiencing similar?

For the record I think warlocks are doing fine, and I'm topping damage in most dungeons, heroic and mythic, with both destruction and demonology. But I've seen plenty of people in trade chat and guild chat and all the other chat say they've not seen a warlock who isn't trash, and thus I'm wondering if warlocks in general are being turned away at the door because of this reputation we're getting.

Here's what you're missing out:

- 5-7+ other people are queuing up as DPS for each listing.

- My 730+ WW monk was getting declined as DPS about 70% of the time in warlords of draenor for mythics, basically being way overgeared for them.

- This touches bases with the central problem you are facing: People queing up against you simply have higher ilv, so they get chosen. Why take my 730 monk when a 741 rogue queued up.

843 ilv isn't anything special, my DH is 848 and several people 850+ by now.

- You'll have much better luck starting your own group. Unfortunately groups fill slowly for DPS leaders. Should have rolled a class with hybrid capabilities and watched your tank have his group pretty much instantly filled up.

TL;DR LFG tool is a shit tool for getting into a group because it's dominated by ilv as a single metric, which means you're in a race against others. Most people don't want to start a group themselves, so they queue up for listings, which leads to a congestion of DPS.

There is no LFG warlock class discrimination, people discriminate far more likely against melee than ranged classes universally still (stupid, yes, but old habits die hard).

Find a guild, your grouping problems will go away. Our dungeon group in my guild already did Glory of the Legion Hero achievements .

[lukico]

Why exactly can Sindorei Spite only drop with the Demo spec but it can be used with Destro and Affliction aswell? Bug here? Or intended?

http://www.wowhead.com/item=132379/sindorei-spite