7.1 spoilers "An Elven Problem"

[Thalassian Bob]

Maybe Vereesa isnt a beacon of rational thought or something.

You mean the woman who judges the entirety of a race based solely on the actions of *one* asshole isn't a rational person?! That's crazy talk!

[Magnagarde]

the blood elves have compression with shaldroei. they will not speak rudely with thalyssra as did tyrande

They have compassion because they too are addicts. Instead, they should've overcome it like Tyrande did.

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You mean the woman who judges the entirety of a race based solely on the actions of *one* asshole isn't a rational person?! That's crazy talk!

Yeah, an entire races that came through a demonic portal from a world they had already destroyed, bent on destroying hers and still continuing to cause problems by nuking entire cities into oblivion, only to change their Ner'zhul/Gul'dan/Orgrim/Garrosh underwear once they lose(again) and claim how dindunuffin.

[Friendlyimmolation]

They have compassion because they too are addicts. Instead, they should've overcome it like Tyrande did.

The Night elves had a giant tree to help replace their fix.

Yeah, an entire races that came through a demonic portal from a world they had already destroyed, bent on destroying hers and still continuing to cause problems by nuking entire cities into oblivion, only to change their Ner'zhul/Gul'dan/Orgrim/Thrall/Garrosh underpants once they lose(again) and claim how dindunuffin.

Hes talking about how she hates blood elves because her cousin who was nuts tried to attack her kids.

While also saying blood elves are terrible leeches while simultaneously guzzling Rhonin's mana toys.

[Thalassian Bob]

Yeah, an entire races that came through a demonic portal from a world they had already destroyed, bent on destroying hers and still continuing to cause problems by nuking entire cities into oblivion, only to change their Ner'zhul/Gul'dan/Orgrim/Thrall/Garrosh underpants once they lose(again) and claim how dindunuffin.

Not the orcs, dude. The blood elves. Vereesa spent years dismissing every blood elf as some degenerate monster simply because of her tool cousin trying to kidnap her shitty mud-blood children.

[Magnagarde]

Not the orcs, dude. The blood elves. Vereesa spent years dismissing every blood elf as some degenerate monster simply because of her tool cousin trying to kidnap her shitty mud-blood children.

They're the same race, which is why I assumed you meant orcs due to Garrosh' actions. Being a blood elf is simply a "condition" a high elf is in.

[Thalassian Bob]

They're the same race, which is why I assumed you meant orcs due to Garrosh' actions.

Yeah, none of the phrases I could think of to describe the schism between high and blood elves was poignant or snappy enough. Plus, she probably sees them as practically two different races now or two different nations/peoples at least.

While also saying blood elves are terrible leeches while simultaneously guzzling Rhonin's mana toys.

[Deleted]

We western germans are doing the same thing Vereesa does with the eastern germans and everyone is happy that way.

[Friendlyimmolation]

We western germans are doing the same thing Vereesa does with the eastern germans and everyone is happy that way.

You want to kill all eastern Germans because one of them wanted to kill a western german child?

In to the depths of insanity and false equivalence we go.

[ravenmoon]

Now that is interesting ;P

it is, but it is not surprising.. remember the rift is between the Thalassian elves and the Vigil-Kal'dorei.... but it's finally surprising to see Tyrande not too cool on them, because both in WotA and in Wolfheart she is shown as far more inviting than the more extreme Maiev.

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They have compassion because they too are addicts. Instead, they should've overcome it like Tyrande did.

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read your lore, in WotA all the Kal'dorei suffered lethargy and withdrawal after the well imploded, but it didn't last long cos a new Well was reignited. and they were once again suffused. The Highborne group with them kept itching to use magic, as the nature existence was not enough. For most night elves, after the harm of the Sundering, they would have fought down their desire to use the arcane.. but the Zin'Azshari Highborne like Illidan, like the Shen'dralar, and like the night elves safe in Suramar knew that was pointless. Remember the Vigil Kal'dorei group believed using the Well would bring back the Legion - cos that was what the Legion seemed to be after, and it was the magical usage that drew them in the first place. Illidan is called betrayal because they felt he re-constituted the Well of Eternity to get his legion masters back... for all their wisdom, they were wrong.

REmember, in the accounts, Cenarius is right next to Malfurion, and he's allowing the Night elves to put aside their arcane affinity - probably because they were much better people before they went all arcane or maybe because he felt the lure would be too much, at least for the time being, - remember there were no blue dragonflights interacting with anyone else to correct that error of thought in the vigil Kal'dorei group - and they had no contact with the Highborne of Eldre'thalas or those in Suramar they probably thought destroyed.

Furthermore, they had Ysera's gift, which boosted their spirits after such a dark dark world ending event - it caused them to dream again and the druids made a pact to help her steward that realm and guide the evolution of the world

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They're the same race, which is why I assumed you meant orcs due to Garrosh' actions. Being a blood elf is simply a "condition" a high elf is in.

they are the same race, but clearly different peoples, in many respects I consider the ancient night elves and the nightborne the same umbrella race, but I recognize they are very different peoples, one is still in the old ways, the other moved on.

[Kellorion]

Now that is interesting ;P

wow, thats odd, what they do to her? o.0

[ravenmoon]

You mean the woman who judges the entirety of a race based solely on the actions of *one* asshole isn't a rational person?! That's crazy talk!

wait didn't the Sin'dorei judge the actions of the 3 races i.e. the entire alliance based on the actions of 1 man - Garithos?

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wow, thats odd, what they do to her? o.0

your people kicked my people out.

remember the night elves exiled the highborne and banned use of magic on pain of death.

Reason - they felt using magic would draw the Legion back to the world and spell doom because the world was very very vulnerable after the Sundering and the breaking of the Night elven empire, lots of ancients dead, the dragonflights in chaos - no protectors left or groups available to withstand an invasion force again - they couldn't take the risk.

The important thing to note is that they didn't trust Illidan nor Darth'remar who told them it could be used without attracting the Legion, he theorized that.. meanwhile, unknown to them, the Shen'dralar Highborne, and the Night Elves of Suramar were using magic away employing exactly what Darth Remar theorized, in fact the Shen'dralar go so far as to summon a demon for themselves, and bind it, quite competently ensuring no other breach occurs. but the Vigil night elves didn't know about this.

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Shandris Feathermoon or riot. :|

Rommath, Lor'themar, Liadrin, Tyrande and Vereesa are not the only Elves involved, just some of the ones datamined.

[Combatbutler]

wait didn't the Sin'dorei judge the actions of the 3 races i.e. the entire alliance based on the actions of 1 man - Garithos?

It wasn't only Garithos, but many of the humans under him as well, after all they couldn't wait until sunrise to execute them all. The blood elves were still willing to negotiate with the Alliance afterwards, but that stopped once the night elves sabotaged and spied on them.

[Rhlor]

I think the elven Union will remain for Azshara expansion

[ravenmoon]

Damn, those pictures on page five. Both Rommath and Liadrin talking about the similarities between Nightborne and Blood Elves while Tyrande does none of that in regards to Kaldorei. Look at all that sameness of Kaldorei and Shal'dorei. Look at that monumental rift between Sin'dorei and Shaldorei because Elisande is in the city.

Tyrande is not happy with the situation, having to be dealt with.. look it from her point of view, she is back in her home city, the city she was ordained High Priestess of Elune, the jewel of the Night Elven empire, and who bravely stood against the Legion.. only for 10k years after, Elisande to do the unthinkable...

I wondered how the High Priestess herself would react to her homecoming, ... not impressed, to see demons littering the place, but I'm also surprised at her reaction to Thalyssra, she shoudl be praising the chick for doing the right thing. However we should wait to hear more, blizzard might be trying to create a rift between the Kal'dorei and the Shal'dorei - and though they are both night elven, the shal'dorei and kal'dorei are different, why do you think Malfurion was considered a Pariah in Suramar 10,000 years ago, and night elf culture, as the one who saved the world back then, it is understandble that he led the group with him down a very different path, while those of Eldre'thalas and Suramar that survived continued in the same vein.

[Thalassian Bob]

wait didn't the Sin'dorei judge the actions of the 3 races i.e. the entire alliance based on the actions of 1 man - Garithos?

Umm... My counter-argument is, "Shhhh..."!

I suppose you could argue that it is slightly different. That was a conflict between two racial leaders which was then taken up by their respective peoples. Plus, Garithos was the human leader in the area. The man who officially represented and governed humanity. Blood elves probably thought that if the humans were willing to follow such a vile man, then the rest of them probably aren't much better. To be fair, many of the Lordaeron survivors who followed Garithos probably ended up with the Scarlet Crusade...

Maybe the blood elves were ready to give humanity another shot after the Third War, but that soon changed when the Kaldorei, who the humans had now formed a new Alliance with, were sabotaging Sin'dorei efforts to get back on their feet (tampering with Arcane Sanctums).
"The friend of my enemy is my enemy."

Also, on the Quel'dorei exile, I thought Dath'remar and his followers were almost excited to leave behind the Kaldorei and found a new kingdom of their own?

[ravenmoon]

I think the elven Union will remain for Azshara expansion

That would be the logical place to take it. If Mace is right, actually the Elves have a very good reason to be a united front though existing as 6 different groups. However all should be written to get to the point of taken out the Legion, bringing Azshara to justice and eliminating threats to Azeroth - according to him, their purpose should be ensuring the horde and alliance don't become a threat themselves, ensure that they are ready and able to respond to threats and not get too distracted by killing each other. Ensure they don't interfere with the rebuilding and restoration of both the elven homes and the forests/world. The blood elves continue to work with the horde to ensure that end, the Night elves with the alliance. They have their respective homes etc, but Suramar is where the neutral central government or group resides.

The alternative is a Broken Isle Night Elf kingdom, Nightborne led, that is neutral and apart from the horde/alliance - pretty much like Argent Dawn/Cenarion or Pandaria. They do interact with the world though and are a focal point for their purpose which is Legion, Azshara and global threats like the old gods.

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Umm... My counter-argument is, "Shhhh..."!

I suppose you could argue that it is slightly different. That was a conflict between two racial leaders which was then taken up by their respective peoples. Plus, Garithos was the human leader in the area. The man who officially represented and governed humanity. Blood elves probably thought that if the humans were willing to follow such a vile man, then the rest of them probably aren't much better. To be fair, many of the Lordaeron survivors who followed Garithos probably ended up with the Scarlet Crusade...

Maybe the blood elves were ready to give humanity another shot after the Third War, but that soon changed when the Kaldorei, who the humans had now formed a new Alliance with, were sabotaging Sin'dorei efforts to get back on their feet (tampering with Arcane Sanctums).
"The friend of my enemy is my enemy."

Also, on the Quel'dorei exile, I thought Dath'remar and his followers were almost excited to leave behind the Kaldorei and found a new kingdom of their own?

exactly ..that is what wow does, it is written to have two sides of a conflict, where both lots have "plausible" reasons that people aligned to either side can relate too. Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a right and a wrong, but you are led to shown that not everyone views right as right or wrong as wrong, and a culture may have different standards, venerating bad behaviour over good, or a different approach that causes enough offence to create a rift or even start a war.

[Aucald]

wait didn't the Sin'dorei judge the actions of the 3 races i.e. the entire alliance based on the actions of 1 man - Garithos?

The Sin'dorei didn't leave the Alliance solely because of Garithos (though I'm certain his actions were a factor), as they blamed the Alliance for failing their nation in its darkest hour. Not to mention that Alliance-affiliated Dalaran was complicit with Garithos in holding them prisoner for the crime of surviving the impossible predicament Garithos had put them in by withdrawing his support and leaving them to die at the hands of the Scourge. Garithos had no way of knowing the origins or backstory of Vashj and her Naga forces - his prodigious racism led him to conclude they were evil and he trumped up an accusation that the alliance of necessity Kael'thas had made with them was "treason." Not to mention that Garithos was acting head of the Alliance forces left in Lordaeron (how that happened I have no idea, anyone with a scintilla of sanity should've demoted him a leadership position) - he was the "face" of Alliance efforts in Lordaeron and represented them as a faction.

[Koryn123]

High Elves did actually overcome and learn to live with it, subduing their addiction by meditating every day.

Shame this bit of lore is never really explored in-game though, and hardly out of it either.

High Elves are still very addicted. The major groups are: Silver Covenant, Alleria's group in the Sons of Lothar, and the Quel'lithien rangers.

Silver Covenant got by because they were safe in Dalaran, protected from the Scourge by an army of human magi unencumbered by a magical addiction. It's really easy to sit and meditate when you know with certainty that your human friends have got the impenetrable magic bubble shield around the entire city covered. And the addiction is said to be easier to cope with for rangers, due to their close relationship with nature. Yet, Vereesa says if it weren't for Rhonin's help, and the love of her boys and husband, she would have given in. Oh poor Vereesa, boo hoo, such a hard life she leads as wife to the leader of a magical city, safe from the Scourge, surrounded by magic on all sides, afforded every amenity, comfort, and specialist available to help her through the pangs of her addiction.

Alleria's elves in the Sons of Lothar got by by murdering Broken Draenei in Terokkar Forest and looting their ruins for magical artifacts to suck mana from. Kind of makes Altruis an idiot for betraying his comrades for Illidan enslaving Broken, when the Alliance don't seem to have a problem with it. The Silver Covenant certainly don't. They only get mad at people who kill vermin for their mana. But killing perfectly intelligent beings likely much older and wiser than yourself to rob them for everything they have? Eh, that's fine.

The high elves at Quel'lithien Lodge were THE ONLY ONES affected by Lor'themar's decision to banish those blood elves who disobeyed Kael'thas' order to kill mana worms for their mana to feed the addiction. The mana worms were created by the elves, for what reason I'm not entirely sure, though the ones found on the Isle of Thunder with the Sunreaver forces are serving them as pets specializing in fighting magi. The elves also created the tenders (basically Force of Nature trees) to help with landscaping and nature stuff and such. When the Sunwell was corrupted and Kael'thas was forced to destroy it to keep it from damaging the elves, they lost control of the mana worms and tenders, as well as their arcane sanctums, which caused more mana worms and arcane constructs to be made. Kael'thas' order solved both the problem of the elves' hunger, as well as the dangerous overpopulation of mana worms, driven to rabid frenzy by their addictions to mana going unfed in the new Quel'thalas. Yet, Ranger-Lord Renthar Hawkspear and several other blood elves (as it was just the name, no green eyes yet, and no reason yet to rescind the name, unless they wanted to be seen as horrible people, like people who say the Holocaust didn't happen or who joke about 9/11) refused to use the new techniques. Keep in mind that the Scourge was dogging the steps of the elves every single day, swarming Quel'thalas, vastly outnumbering the elves, and growing more numerous with every elf who fell in battle. There were very little mana crystals to go around, and thus few other ways to feed the addiction. Lor'themar, also a Ranger-Lord, albeit higher on the food chain due to being Sylvanas' second-in-command, was made Regent-Lord by Kael'thas (he likely would have become Ranger-General if Kael'thas had stayed, with Halduron being his second-in-command), and was supposed to help Rommath convince the elves of the new mana source's necessity. With most, he succeeded, with 90% of the remaining population (including Kael'thas' 15% that went with him to Outland) adopting the method of siphoning mana from living creatures, always directed at vermin like mana worms. But Renthar wouldn't do it. Lor'themar tried to change his mind, with no success, and in order to keep the very crippled nation from being even further splintered by Renthar perhaps continuing to speak out against the Prince's methods and turning more of their people to his view, he was forced to banish Renthar and those who followed him who refused to acquiesce. The blood elves needed to stay strong if they were to survive against the Scourge, and couldn't afford the weakness brought on by not feeding the addiction, or not feeding it often enough (as the previous method, scrounging and scavenging mana crystals found here and there) left them vulnerable and without the strength to fight.

Renthar and his elves went to Quel'lithien, choosing to rescind the name "blood elves" as they didn't want to be associated with their brethren any longer. They didn't stop feeding the addiction, though, continuing to siphon mana from magical artifacts whenever they could find them. Shortly after Kael'thas was defeated and the Sunwell was restored, Lor'themar visited the lodge to offer assistance in supplies, now that Quel'thalas was secure, and they could afford to help. The High Elves angrily refused his help, even going so far as to say that they'd kill anyone he sent with supplies. During the visit, Lor'themar told them that the Sunwell was restored, and one, a priestess, mentioned that she hasn't needed "help" to cope with the pangs of her addiction lately. So they were doing much better.

But apparently it wasn't enough, because around the Cataclysm, Renthar discovered a very powerful magical artifact (we don't know what it was), but every elf who drew mana from it became a wretched, using the same model as the fel-corrupted wretched on the Isle of Quel'danas, so it could have been some kind of dark magic intended as a trap or just very dangerous and the elves didn't exercise caution, or they just drew so much from some normal magic artifact that they turned.


The Elves at Quel'danil Lodge in the Hinterlands have the least information. All we have are assumptions, but in one manga story, it's mentioned that they no longer practice magic, which could mean they either don't use spells and such, or they quit their mana consumption entirely, along with spells. I assume that they were able to resist and have a relatively easy time finding opportunities to meditate, given their much more secure position in the un-plagued Hinterlands, and their proximity to their close friends, the Wildhammer dwarves, who could help keep them safe while getting over their addictions. Adding the fact that they were all rangers, they probably had the easiest time getting over their addiction.

At this point, only they and the Silver Covenant don't consume mana anymore. All other high and blood elves do.

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Yes, let us mash up night elves, blood elves, unafflicted high elves, wretches and nightborne.

The "only" problem is that the high elves of Quel'thalas were initially banished by the night elf society for their reckless use of the arcane, but yeah, nobody minds that yep. On top of that, those that banished these elves for the use of arcane have nothing against working with those that are the present-day most potent users of it.

Their grandparents and great-grandparents were the ones banished. But yes, there has been some animosity about that, when the Night Elves allowed the Shen'drelar to rejoin them in Cataclysm, a Blood Elf magister in Azshara was sore about that, and used his superior magic to defeat the outdated obsolete insecure magics taught to the night elf apprentices who'd just recently started learning from the Shen'drelar.

[Shampro]

Is it safe to say the Blood Elves have the strongest armaments among the Elves?

Haven't seem them used the Pyrestar in forever, along with the Anima Golem.

[Koryn123]

Vereesa does not like kaldorei

Weird, since she didn't have a problem working with them during Theramore, even leading a group of Sentinels while Shandris led another, while searching for Thalen Songweaver, who they for some reason expected to flee on foot, rather than port out, as he was a mage and all.

But glad to see she's not prejudiced against just the Blood Elves. Hopefully Blizzard is going to stop ignoring her childish behavior sometime soon.

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Probably more likely that they didn't like here first, she got offended and then started not liking them.

There's reason for Sin'dorei to be rubbed the wrong way by Kaldorei, cousins who stifle themselves with an "irrational" fear of magic, attempted to sabotage Sin'dorei restoration projects in Quel'Thalas and acting like they know better than them (like magic vegans).
But, for a Quel'dorei like Vereesa, who judges the blood elves just as harshly as the night elves do for their use of Fel magic, and has aligned herself with the Alliance like they have, it seems strange that she'd have inherent beef with the night elves.

And since she has a high elf warlock trainer in (Northrend) Dalaran, and had no qualms about murdering innocent animals to prevent the Sunreavers' escape during the Purge of Dalaran, so she thinks angry vengeance is a good reason to murder animals, but apparently killing animals for nutrients to keep one's strength up in a zombie apocalypse is pure evil.

And there was also a Night Elf ranger in the Silver Covenant in old Dalaran too.


Both the Tyrande and Vereesa have a lot of BS to explain themselves for.

They both hate the Blood Elves cuz fel magic even though they don't do it since BC except warlocks even though it was only a very small portion that did fel, but don't mind the fact that every single Shen'drelar is alive today because they sucked fel from Immol'thar for 10,000 years, and don't mind having high elves using fel magic in your own base, inherently making them a blood elf who just aligns himself with the Alliance.

Tyrande hates BEs for arcane heritage, but don't mind the Silver Covenant for it, and also don't mind Khadgar and Dalaran, dripping in arcane magic. But she doesn't mind letting the Shen'drelar come back, even though she doesn't like them much.