Prot being extremely spiky/squisy

[Deleted]

Pretty much everyone I talk to on discord agree's that Seraph isn't great right now because you lose too much, ofc it's best for Signle target dps but LD is great for trash pulls it gives you an buff to both offense and defense. RP is good too although if you're running horn it will desync your wings and trinket.

That was back when the discussion was about mythic dungeons, which are quite frankly as soon as you're in hc dungeon gear trivial. Seraphim is the strongest DPS talent. It offers already an almost 13% damage increase only through versatility, which is our weakest DPS stat. Of course Seraphim is in all cases a survivability loss over taking no talent, but the DPS output is unmatched in almost all scenarios compared to the other talents in this row.

[Guzrud]

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It's 20% of that 35%.

~42% until you put artifact points into scatter the shadows(or get relics).

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This will depend greatly on your gear and Talents. Currently for me with Concecrate and Artifact Talents its 62% and 69% with Seraphim. Me using AW its currently like ~97% with Seraphim. I think with really good vers gear we could be in the 65-75% range talents depending which is pretty damn op.

Have to remember that Versatility/Consecrate/AW will all update your % on the Tooltip. Artifact traits will not. So if you are at say 60% and you have the 3 points for 30% you are at 60*1.3 or 78% but your tooltip will show just 60%.

Currently for me it says 53% iirc with seraphim/concecrate which means 68.9% with my artifact.

[KampKanye]

We are pretty squishy, although, you can run holy shield and become noticeably more tanky. The whole idea is to mitigate what you can between protectors. With that said, some fights are way harder as a prot pally than they should be. For example, Xavius. You can easily go long periods with no healing at all in that fight since your healer will spend a lot of it either feared or silenced. On my DK, I can run smash face through the fight. On the other hand, Serpentrix is extremely easy on a prot pally, but a bit harder on a blood DK.

[Deleted]

We are pretty squishy, although, you can run holy shield and become noticeably more tanky. The whole idea is to mitigate what you can between protectors. With that said, some fights are way harder as a prot pally than they should be. For example, Xavius. You can easily go long periods with no healing at all in that fight since your healer will spend a lot of it either feared or silenced. On my DK, I can run smash face through the fight. On the other hand, Serpentrix is extremely easy on a prot pally, but a bit harder on a blood DK.

Not sure what i just read

[Gutterking]

We are pretty squishy, although, you can run holy shield and become noticeably more tanky. The whole idea is to mitigate what you can between protectors. With that said, some fights are way harder as a prot pally than they should be. For example, Xavius. You can easily go long periods with no healing at all in that fight since your healer will spend a lot of it either feared or silenced. On my DK, I can run smash face through the fight. On the other hand, Serpentrix is extremely easy on a prot pally, but a bit harder on a blood DK.

Never experienced this. Both fights are relatively easy.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I completely agreed with this several years ago, and I still do to a certain extent. The reason why it's only "to a certain extent" is that I basically got bombarded on EJ when I tried to suggest that Prot or Ret could use utility. Essentially, what it boiled down to was:
- Healing is the job of healers.
- If you help them out, you create a crutch. It may help on this try, but not the next. It's not predictable.
- Every single GCD of any given role should always go towards that role. A Ret should only do DPS etc.

I won't be doing bleeding edge progression in Legion, as I'm a bit more casual these days, but even when I did.. I see the point, but I still don't fully agree. Like you, I feel there are moments where saving someone from a fluke is well worth it. Does that mean it will basically take longer to execute the tactics perfectly? I genuinely have no idea. I think it's hard to verify the theory (one way or the other).

I have macros set up to use my blessings and heals on my focus. In 5-mans I focus the healer. In raids, the other tank. I figure if I keep them and myself up, in addition to tanking (positioning, etc.), I've done my part and more.

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Not everyone thinks we're squishy. He also says we look nice.

As a healer i can provide a bit of feedback with my experience on mythic so far:

Druids take way too much magic damage, they soak physical easily though. (most mechanics use magic damage)

Paladins look nice, they have nice heals and a lot of defensive coldown if you know how to use.

Demon Hunter take way to much damage spikes, like huge spikes, they have a strong heal though, wich make his health bars even more unreliable.

Warriors look fine too, had no problem healing them also that aoe stun really helps when tanking many adds, giving time to full heal it's life.

Blood DKs are OK, but they feel like they lack a strong coldown I think they removed icebound fortitude (wich helped a lot with reducing inc dmg) and they self heals are not so realliable now.

Haven't see any brewmasters in my runs.

[Fokku]

Hand of the Protector is useless really. Sure the CD is reduced a bit, but you won't spike in HP that much in relation to that.
At the same time, Final Stand is so strong it's insane.

Sure, you can all debate about Prot Palas and that you "never take dmg". But believe me, when push comes to shove we ARE the squishiest tank atm (Have a Prot, DH and Warrior on almost same ilvl and have both DPS/healed/tanked as Paladin in mythics). Even if we cycle CD's (yes that is our new playstyle) we WILL have to kite on higher Mythic+ dungeons to not die during downtime if the group isn't 100% synced.

It is also hard to judge sometimes how much damage the tank actually is taking. Most big pulls comes down to good hard CC (stuns), interrupts and not overlapping CD's. DPS that knows what they are doing can reduce the incoming damage the tank will receive by huge margins. From this aspect, Prot Palas have potential to be the most optimal tanks in dungeons.

Quoted for truth.
The difference between a group that know what its doing and not is so huge right now.
People in here saying "I never take dmg", well you can thank your group for that. Ran mythics with my regular group and a group that didnt know about stuns on my paladin, and the difference in the work you have to put in is huge. And at some point you just run out of CD's.

At this point, paladin is not the greatest tank. But before that point there is nothing wrong with paladin tanking

[Deleted]

Agreed, we really shine in good groups. The more coordination, interrupts and stuns, the less we have to heal ourselves or anyone else. HotP + RP allows us to partially carry a mediocre group through mythics. For a really good group, those two are probably superfluous and you're better off chosing something else, like LD and KT.

With my guild group I will eventually stop off-healing once we get into it, but in random groups I'll still be doing it. It's just not worth educating randoms after wipes when I can just heal them back up off the GCD, avoid the wipe, and be done with it.

[Hermitxd]

This will depend greatly on your gear and Talents. Currently for me with Concecrate and Artifact Talents its 62% and 69% with Seraphim. Me using AW its currently like ~97% with Seraphim. I think with really good vers gear we could be in the 65-75% range talents depending which is pretty damn op.

Have to remember that Versatility/Consecrate/AW will all update your % on the Tooltip. Artifact traits will not. So if you are at say 60% and you have the 3 points for 30% you are at 60*1.3 or 78% but your tooltip will show just 60%.

Currently for me it says 53% iirc with seraphim/concecrate which means 68.9% with my artifact.

He wanted to know how it was calculated.

I was simply letting him know it's not 35% + 20%.

[TheRabidDeer]

Having healed and tanked a good number of mythics I can say this:
A huge amount of damage can be avoided by interrupts/cc and having good damage. The sooner even one mob is gone from a trash pack the amount of incoming damage gets reduced by a LOT.

Some groups I will heal 200k+ HPS on trash and be run OOM after every other pull. Some groups I have so little to heal that I can do DPS. The individual responsibility in mythic dungeons seems much higher in Legion than it was in WoD

[KampKanye]

Not sure what i just read

Something written by probably the only person in this thread actively tanking mythics on multiple classes (I have a druid, DK, warrior, pally, and DH).

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Never experienced this. Both fights are relatively easy.

Xavius damage isn't really the problem. It's the fight mechanics requiring you to run two ranged dps so the healer isn't constantly getting silenced/feared. On a DK it isn't a problem because they're fully capable of doing nearly half of the group's healing if you know what you're doing. I only mentioned Serpentrix because I can solo him on my pally.

[Deleted]

Something written by probably the only person in this thread actively tanking mythics on multiple classes (I have a druid, DK, warrior, pally, and DH).

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Xavius damage isn't really the problem. It's the fight mechanics requiring you to run two ranged dps so the healer isn't constantly getting silenced/feared. On a DK it isn't a problem because they're fully capable of doing nearly half of the group's healing if you know what you're doing. I only mentioned Serpentrix because I can solo him on my pally.

Nice.personally I have trouble healing the group on my dk, not so much on my pally.

[Wallack]

So now LotP heals me for 45% or maybe 46 based on versatility (don't have scatter the shadows yet) while standing on conseration but now with the 7.1 it will be at least 55% just with the base heal and consecration, that's really nice right? is a mini lay on hands. How much can go with scatter and some versatility?

[Deleted]

No, it won't change. It already heals for 35% and adding 20% adds 20% of 35%, which is 7%. Standing in Cons it heals you by 42% right now and will do so even after 7.1 unless they change it. Not sure why this same myth suddenly keeps popping up all over this forum.

[lcs]

Could someone take a look at these logs?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-taken&boss=-3

These were from some Mythic dungeons I ran last night with a Prot Pally in my guild. I felt as if he was squishy/hard to heal, but I don't know enough about protection to do any rigorous analysis. I'm curious if there are improvements to be made, or if Mythics just run at that level of difficulty (I hope not, because Mythic+ would be brutal with more damage than what was going out).

[KampKanye]

Nice.personally I have trouble healing the group on my dk, not so much on my pally.

You're not going to heal much of anything as a healer when getting chained feared/silenced. Prot pally needs to run a specific comp (2 ranged dps, 1 melee) to beat mythic Xavius without getting lucky. A DK can virtually solo him since they're doing 40% of the group's healing and he only does one bursty attack.

[Loot]

Lol what, Xavius targets melee/tank with the fear and silence. I've done full melee comps with 0 issue. The healer doesn't get chain CC'd by Xavius at all barring insanely bad rng

[Deleted]

Something written by probably the only person in this thread actively tanking mythics on multiple classes (I have a druid, DK, warrior, pally, and DH).

Wow, you have multiple 110's two and a half weeks into the expansion. Congrats.

You're not going to heal much of anything as a healer when getting chained feared/silenced. Prot pally needs to run a specific comp (2 ranged dps, 1 melee) to beat mythic Xavius without getting lucky. A DK can virtually solo him since they're doing 40% of the group's healing and he only does one bursty attack.

Specific comp to beat Xavius on mythic? Lol. And DK does fairly high HPS compared to other members in your group, because the class revolves arround taking higher damage and healing it back up. DK's contribution to group healing is nonexistant.

Lol what, Xavius targets melee/tank with the fear and silence. I've done full melee comps with 0 issue. The healer doesn't get chain CC'd by Xavius at all barring insanely bad rng

True, got it often enough as a tank, even with ranged DPS in the group.

[sage]

Could someone take a look at these logs?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-taken&boss=-3

These were from some Mythic dungeons I ran last night with a Prot Pally in my guild. I felt as if he was squishy/hard to heal, but I don't know enough about protection to do any rigorous analysis. I'm curious if there are improvements to be made, or if Mythics just run at that level of difficulty (I hope not, because Mythic+ would be brutal with more damage than what was going out).

Looked at Xavius: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&ability=53600

Tell him to stop using seraphim until he learns how to use active mitigation, and pressing judgment on cd.


I glanced through some other fights, and this seems to be the biggest problem.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&ability=53600

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&ability=53600

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&ability=53600

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...&ability=53600

etc.

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Something written by probably the only person in this thread actively tanking mythics on multiple classes (I have a druid, DK, warrior, pally, and DH)

lol, i doubt that.

and just having a bunch of characters doesn't mean you arent bad/wrong.

[Zodd]

The HoTP thing is just hilarious. In 5 mans and outside of specific instances it's just the most awesome thing ever. You abuse that with Righteous Protector and a modicum of haste and it's not a 10 second cooldown, it's a 5 second cooldown.

It's the strongest heal in the game. I mainly play a Holy Paladin, fwiw, and my healbot is up when I tank as well.

No one argues that Final Stand will be extraordinarily useful in certain circumstances, or that Knight Templar will be the 'go-to' for certain fights along with Cavalier (I think everyone takes that one anyway).

Soloing world quest "DANGER" bosses just makes me giddy, making a healers' presence irrelevant on a lot of bosses without large AoE or unavoidable damage mechanics, keeping trash pulls sane (healing demon hunter tanks primarily since expansion start gives healers itchy trigger fingers), saving random group members from death with one cast (that's back on command if necessary)... HoTP is one of the most well done talents one could ask for. I just wish all of our choices were as compelling.