Guild Leaders: How to handle cliques?

[Halicia]

Allowing players their own safe spaces is important. I ask my raiders to help each other - and they do - but I don't threaten to gkick them because they like playing with their IRL friends. That's fucking retarded.

There's a difference between playing with friends, and NOT playing with guildies.

One is an asset, the other is a liability. When people are playing with their friends to the exclusion of EVER interacting with guildies, it becomes a difficult matter to balance the pros and cons in.

And the biggest issue with cliques, which I don't think people have mentioned yet... is that in the long term, they destroy guilds. Eventually, *someone* in the guild will throw a tantrum about *something* and if the clique's only connection to the rest of the guild is a couple hours of raidnight, then that upset *person* will take all their friends with them and you're left having to replace half your raid team pointing blame at each other as some of them secretly try to see which side of the fence has the greener grass.

If people have *individual* connections to everyone else in the guild, the guild rises and falls as a whole... it doesnt split in half over every perceived insult.

[Tankitbetter]

There's a difference between playing with friends, and NOT playing with guildies.

One is an asset, the other is a liability. When people are playing with their friends to the exclusion of EVER interacting with guildies, it becomes a difficult matter to balance the pros and cons in.

And the biggest issue with cliques, which I don't think people have mentioned yet... is that in the long term, they destroy guilds. Eventually, *someone* in the guild will throw a tantrum about *something* and if the clique's only connection to the rest of the guild is a couple hours of raidnight, then that upset *person* will take all their friends with them and you're left having to replace half your raid team pointing blame at each other as some of them secretly try to see which side of the fence has the greener grass.

If people have *individual* connections to everyone else in the guild, the guild rises and falls as a whole... it doesnt split in half over every perceived insult.

Why is why I said the OP should encourage them to invite people in the guild when they queue.

[The Iron Fist]

There's a difference between playing with friends, and NOT playing with guildies.

One is an asset, the other is a liability. When people are playing with their friends to the exclusion of EVER interacting with guildies, it becomes a difficult matter to balance the pros and cons in.

And the biggest issue with cliques, which I don't think people have mentioned yet... is that in the long term, they destroy guilds. Eventually, *someone* in the guild will throw a tantrum about *something* and if the clique's only connection to the rest of the guild is a couple hours of raidnight, then that upset *person* will take all their friends with them and you're left having to replace half your raid team pointing blame at each other as some of them secretly try to see which side of the fence has the greener grass.

If people have *individual* connections to everyone else in the guild, the guild rises and falls as a whole... it doesnt split in half over every perceived insult.

Agree 100% and said the same earlier in the last 2 pages of posts =)

[Tankitbetter]

(#1) This is the internet and you can claim anything. Maybe you are being truthful, but I fail to see how that matters. Most 700+ account guilds are spam invite guilds that are completely composed of a number of small cliques. You're in the 10% I was talking about.

(#2) Guilds are more than raid teams. Guilds are communities. That would be like living somewhere and reaping all the benefits without playing any taxes. You're leeching and hurting your community.

Image #1: Leader of a large guild
Image #2: In one of the most legendary guild communities ever seen in WoW

[Nuckels]

And this is why I will never be part of a serious guild again, nor will I ever be a raider. No offense, but having friends should not be a bad thing.

One person does not = all guilds.

First question to the OP is, what kind of guild is it? If its some casual 10man heroic social kind of deal tell them that and if that doesn't work start looking for replacements already. This will eventually drama out.

If its a serious mythic guild, then they should have progression as the NR1 priority and you shoudnt be worried.

[Seditian]

Holy fuck I haven't read anything after the first page, but you're making me laugh so hard. We have multiple groups of friends in our guild and haven't had any trouble. I feel like every single person on the front-page has had a bad experience with small groups of friends. In this case it sounds like they're bad though, just talk to them about it. We've had a group of people who were doing all mythic dungeons together as well (full guild group though), but that's mostly because we were nearly the only 5 who grinded days straight in order to make our mythic runs easier and didn't want to carry anyone yet. We split up after the second reset and helped 20+ people in our guild with mythics. Has it ever occured to you that they might be doing the same? You do realize they have other friends outside of the guild as well, right? So it might seem like they're pugging just to "spite" you (I honestly doubt they are), but they might just be boosting friends, big deal.

What I'm trying to say is: A) Talk to them about it and B) There's lots of small friend groups in high-end raiding guilds who have had good experiences, you know, because they talk about it if there's a problem.

Edit: Ok I've quickly scrolled through all the pages now. Fucking hell. Just talk to them about it. And don't listen to any of these idiots who're just yelling "I've been in SEVENTY guilds and they all got destroyed from the inside out by these small groups of villains. Friends are like the black plague! Kick them right now!". They're dumb and obviously never lead a guild before.

[Aggrophobic]

It can become a problem if the rest of the clique starts causing problems if you bench one of them for example.

You can't tell a group of friends that they can't play with each other becuase you're afraid of drama.
Thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heared.

[Morrigenn]

To all of you with the same drone of: "just talk to them"... apparently you didn't actually read the first post.

OP says he HAS talked to them about the issue and they'll be cooperative for a few days and then go back to their clique.

It's a lost cause. Let them find somewhere else to insert their little raiding group, because you can be SURE that if they think they're not getting all they "deserve" from the raid, they'll bail and you'll be left stranded.

[Seditian]

To all of you with the same drone of: "just talk to them"... apparently you didn't actually read the first post.

OP says he HAS talked to them about the issue and they'll be cooperative for a few days and then go back to their clique.

It's a lost cause. Let them find somewhere else to insert their little raiding group, because you can be SURE that if they think they're not getting all they "deserve" from the raid, they'll bail and you'll be left stranded.

Point still stands. Give them a proper warning first instead of instantly kicking them. I've kicked the most toxic retards out of my guild and yet people were still questioning me why they were kicked. These guys don't really sound toxic other than not really "being there" so to say. Give them a warning and if they don't change in the last few days before the raid, they obviously won't improve ever if they don't even want to keep up appearances even for a few days before a raid.

E: And honestly, if they do their "jobs" in raids, who really gives a fuck if they only want to play with their friends wherever possible. The majority of the world does exactly this, and not just in games.

[Lilija]

You cannot control your guild members - period. The more you try to more resistance you will get. And you cannot force people to play in a different way that they want to play.

If you are a raiding guild your guild's goal is raiding. The only important thing is how people perform and behave during raids.

Anyway you have 2 options:
- get over it
- tell them what you told us - they will either explain themselves and make your concerns go away or they will leave and think that you are a crazy person

[Gandrake]

I raid every now and then to enjoy it a little bit and when I do, I log on for raids and I log out when I'm done or go do whatever else. It's not my responsibility to build your raid group. I am under no obligation, whatsoever, to change my plans to accommodate you.

The game is there for entertainment... It's not a commitment, like a job lol. And even then, a job asking you to do extra stuff than originally assigned better come with a pay raise.

[Archmage Khadgar]

I raid every now and then to enjoy it a little bit and when I do, I log on for raids and I log out when I'm done or go do whatever else. It's not my responsibility to build your raid group. I am under no obligation, whatsoever, to change my plans to accommodate you.

The game is there for entertainment... It's not a commitment, like a job lol. And even then, a job asking you to do extra stuff than originally assigned better come with a pay raise.

None of that has anything to do with the OP really.

OP if you've already talked to them and the problem isn't being fixed, give them a final warning and kick them if nothing happens. If they don't want to be a part of your guild, which they clearly don't, they can make their own.

[TofuBandita]

Cliques can be troublesome. They often leave others, who don't usually have people to group with reliably, feeling left out, and it does build a bit of a divide in your team. But, you also have to put yourself in their shoes.

I often play with the same group of people, and you could call us a clique somewhat. The reasons why we tend to clique up? We're all reliable at showing up, and powering through runs/wqs, and we also match time zones. We all have the same kind of play style 'values'. I.e. we don't like slow runs, or slow tanks, or people that go afk every few minutes on trash. We also prefer people who want to, for example, get as many mythic runs done in one session, not straggled out here and there. In my experience it's difficult to find people like that. Perhaps I'm just surrounded by the wrong crowd, but that's why I tend to stick to the same people. It's just what we find fun and how we want to spend our play time.

Apart from that, it's actually not often that people respond in guild, when we ask others to come along, and we just want to get shit done, not wait around in hopes some guildies will fill our spots.

[The Iron Fist]

@Tankitbetter Like I said, I fail to see how that matters. Let your ego go.

(1) FYI, your phone number is showing in the first photo, and your battle.net tag is super easy to find too. May wanna fix that.
(2) Being in Death and Taxes means nothing as you weren't a guild leader or officer there. The games completely different now from then. I ran a server first guild BWL --> Naxx 40. Who cares? No one. It has nothing to do with how to run a guild well in the first place. What does matter is I have been a GM almost my entire WoW career.
(3) Your current guild is a large, spam invite guild which is confirmed via WoWProgress who went 11/13 normal HFC. You have streams of people coming and going from your guild which is a terrible sign of how its run.
(4) I handed my guild off (8/13 heroic HFC) to my officers early WoD (as I hated it and was playing ESO), and it still progressed further than yours as a group of casuals. Your Guild vs My Guild w/me not even present. Again, no one cares. Stop trying to impress people because you're just making yourself look like a fool. Only reason I'm even comparing is to show how my casual, not very progressed guild did better than someone claiming to be so good they were in Death and Taxes so there opinion is more valid.
(4) Trying to make yourself sound prestigious and legit, as though your opinion is more valued and accurate than mine, reeks of insecurity.

[Cerus]

Pay for all their expenses - sub, Internet, power etc and then maybe you'd have a say in how they play. Until then - butt out. People complain about WoW turning into a single player game but then turn around and complain when people treat it like an MMO.

You can't stop people from forming friendships and you don't have the right. If they do their job in raids it's a non issue.

[Hunk]

OP isn't listing the facts right. I'm the monk, and it's literally about the GM and the Co-GM (Who is also his wife) and their feelings. No one in their guild ran any content except for us, which makes us the target for his wife to bring serious drama our way. We are also the only ppl that use any voice com, and because we told them we don't use the guild one anymore, we got crap for it. The only two people that use their mumble are the GM and Co-GM, why should I sit in there alone until they get on? I have a mumble with my rl friend, his wife, and some other rl friends I chose to go to to relax while I ran dungeons.

It basically came down to my shaman healer friend, who isn't a raider, was the only healer geared in the guild in the first 2 weeks, and he exclusively ran content with me, his RL friend. I think that's fine, it's his choice. I brought plenty of guildies, I can name off at least 10 runs in which I brought guild members to mythics, that's not listing any heroics. We also geared the leather wearers, who happen to be the rogue/druid/monk, with loot share. God forbid.

They list in recruitment as semi-hardcore, refused to set up dungeon times, or groups, or professions, and refuse to admit they're really just a social guild.

TLDR: GM and his wife don't get their way, don't run content with anyone, blame us for running content. We're not in there anymore though, after seeing this, and I honestly don't know why we stayed so long.

[The Iron Fist]

OP isn't listing the facts right. I'm the monk, and it's literally about the GM and the Co-GM (Who is also his wife) and their feelings. No one in their guild ran any content except for us, which makes us the target for his wife to bring serious drama our way. We are also the only ppl that use any voice com, and because we told them we don't use the guild one anymore, we got crap for it. The only two people that use their mumble are the GM and Co-GM, why should I sit in there alone until they get on? I have a mumble with my rl friend, his wife, and some other rl friends I chose to go to to relax while I ran dungeons.

It basically came down to my shaman healer friend, who isn't a raider, was the only healer geared in the guild in the first 2 weeks, and he exclusively ran content with me, his RL friend. I think that's fine, it's his choice. I brought plenty of guildies, I can name off at least 10 runs in which I brought guild members to mythics, that's not listing any heroics. We also geared the leather wearers, who happen to be the rogue/druid/monk, with loot share. God forbid.

They list in recruitment as semi-hardcore, refused to set up dungeon times, or groups, or professions, and refuse to admit they're really just a social guild.

TLDR: GM and his wife don't get their way, don't run content with anyone, blame us for running content. We're not in there anymore though, after seeing this, and I honestly don't know why we stayed so long.

There is always two sides to every story. If your story is indeed the case, then you're completely justified for leaving. Next time I bet you won't stick around in a guild like that for long next time. Best of luck.

[Deleted]

That happens in every guild, because every Guild has assholes you don't want to play with. I always only have like 1-2 people in a guild I like to play with. The rest are just fillers we need for the raid.

[callipygoustp]

OP isn't listing the facts right. I'm the monk, and it's literally about the GM and the Co-GM (Who is also his wife) and their feelings. No one in their guild ran any content except for us, which makes us the target for his wife to bring serious drama our way. We are also the only ppl that use any voice com, and because we told them we don't use the guild one anymore, we got crap for it. The only two people that use their mumble are the GM and Co-GM, why should I sit in there alone until they get on? I have a mumble with my rl friend, his wife, and some other rl friends I chose to go to to relax while I ran dungeons.

It basically came down to my shaman healer friend, who isn't a raider, was the only healer geared in the guild in the first 2 weeks, and he exclusively ran content with me, his RL friend. I think that's fine, it's his choice. I brought plenty of guildies, I can name off at least 10 runs in which I brought guild members to mythics, that's not listing any heroics. We also geared the leather wearers, who happen to be the rogue/druid/monk, with loot share. God forbid.

They list in recruitment as semi-hardcore, refused to set up dungeon times, or groups, or professions, and refuse to admit they're really just a social guild.

TLDR: GM and his wife don't get their way, don't run content with anyone, blame us for running content. We're not in there anymore though, after seeing this, and I honestly don't know why we stayed so long.

Pretty close to what I expected. Not surprising at all.

[Super Kami Dende]

It's a social game, they are being social, stop being an ass.