[HOLY] Holy Sh*t!: Legion Edition

[MCC]

This. I was wondering why anyone would need to track it. Just seems like extra crap on your screen that you don't need because it doesn't affect how you play in anyway whatsoever.

If you want to track it, go nuts. But it makes no sense.

This. PotSH does not change your rotation at all.

[Taeldorian]

This. PotSH does not change your rotation at all.

Some people like myself want to know how much their next heal is going to heal for. It's not that hard to understand.

[Deleted]

Yeah, maybe before the nerf. Getting PotSH to 500k implies you just did (in best case scenario) 666k HPS for 7.5 continuous seconds. Assuming you are chain casting Holy Shock.

Which is not totally unrealistic even at 10%. If you don't think it's significant that your HS can heal for an additional 500k-1M in the edge case, and it will not affect your decision making it's up to you, I don't agree that it changes nothing.

[Simulacrum]

This. I was wondering why anyone would need to track it. Just seems like extra crap on your screen that you don't need because it doesn't affect how you play in anyway whatsoever.

If you want to track it, go nuts. But it makes no sense.

It matters if you're using holy shock to do damage as well as heal, as is often the case in 5 mans for example. In that case you want to know whether or not the buff is up, and possibly how much it's worth so you can consider if it makes sense to use it or let it go to waste, to instead use holy shock to do damage while filling globals where you can't do any damage with less versatile heals.

[tehealadin]

I have to admit I am struggling a bit as holy in certain heroic encounters, and in some mythic ones. The whole "everyone in the party is getting nuked" is such a cunt to heal through with primarily single target heals. I also don't like this melee healer thing. I liked the old mastery.

[Simulacrum]

Everyone liked the old mastery. It was crazy strong, and almost always good. Even overhealing didn't matter with it. I miss stacking that shit with eternal flames on everyone in the raid while spamming holy radiance and turning that aoe heal into the strongest single-target heal in the kit through its interaction with holy shock. MoP holy paladin really was the most fun a healer in wow has ever been. Sadly though, blizz hates it when you get to have fun, so they did away with all that shit.

You shouldn't have an issue with "everyone getting nuked" as a hpaladin, though. You have double beacon or virtue to handle it at any given time, along with prism and even light's hammer and LoD on the melee, on top of the aura. All those little ticks add up. You can easily sustain 200k+ hps if 4-5 people are taking damage at the same time, simply by just kind of throwing out your aoes while simultaneously doing 100k+ dps. More HPS if you're FoLing, though then you do much less dps as well. Stuff really shouldn't be an issue. Only real problem hpalaidn has is they have pretty shit single-target hps outside of cooldown usage, especially if you can't stand in 'melee' of the target.

[fabonaut]

You shouldn't have an issue with "everyone getting nuked" as a hpaladin, though. You have double beacon or virtue to handle it at any given time, along with prism and even light's hammer and LoD on the melee, on top of the aura.

Well, yeah, kind of. The thing is, the Paladin's mastery is the only mastery in the game which requires the other people in your group to think about it, too. There are many, many boss mechanics right now which make people run all over the place in an uncoordinated group. This punishes the Holy Paladin not only because of the mastery, but also because of BoV then sometimes hits only two targets, for example.

I love my Holy Paladin right now and I have yet to wipe in a mythic dungeon. However, the mastery feels extremely clunky. I feel like it requires other players to be aware of it, too, and that makes it sometimes harder for me to play my Paladin to its full potential, if you know what I mean. If other people make wrong decisions in terms of positioning, its their fault, but you suffer from it too, so to speak.

[Taeldorian]

Well, yeah, kind of. The thing is, the Paladin's mastery is the only mastery in the game which requires the other people in your group to think about it, too. There are many, many boss mechanics right now which make people run all over the place in an uncoordinated group. This punishes the Holy Paladin not only because of the mastery, but also because of BoV then sometimes hits only two targets, for example.

I love my Holy Paladin right now and I have yet to wipe in a mythic dungeon. However, the mastery feels extremely clunky. I feel like it requires other players to be aware of it, too, and that makes it sometimes harder for me to play my Paladin to its full potential, if you know what I mean. If other people make wrong decisions in terms of positioning, its their fault, but you suffer from it too, so to speak.

Yeah that's true but only for random groups (sometimes).

If you do this with guildies who you can communicate with its much better and much easier (obviously). If you just go with randoms of course people are going to be spread all over. RoL helps with this issue a lot imo.

That's just how it is when pugging. You can of course tell them to move with you and stack with you when possible rather than run as far away as possible. This is actually what I do most of the time and people seem to be okay with it. You're right though, we do get punished a bit for other people's bad positioning, but RoL does help a lot.

[Deleted]

I disagree actually. It rewards proper planning and positioning on the Paladin's behalf. Do not misunderstand this as speaking in favour of our mastery - I think it is stupid compared to other healing classes. However, it fits the intended theme of a melee healer.

[Deleted]

I disagree actually. It rewards proper planning and positioning on the Paladin's behalf. Do not misunderstand this as speaking in favour of our mastery - I think it is stupid compared to other healing classes. However, it fits the intended theme of a melee healer.

Then why don't we get the old MW treatment and get considered as melee ?
We are NOT melee healers, and in most raid fight can NOT stand in melee because we will be targeted by ranged-specific stuff and rain hell on the actual melee dps.

[Leefa]

I disagree actually. It rewards proper planning and positioning on the Paladin's behalf. Do not misunderstand this as speaking in favour of our mastery - I think it is stupid compared to other healing classes. However, it fits the intended theme of a melee healer.

Except they abandoned the melee healer fantasy back in like january, but they never changed the mastery. You also cannot "proper plan and position" as it will be entirely up to your tactics, the raid mechanics and peoples behavior wether your mastery will be effective or not. And need I mention how you have absolutely no way of taking advantage of it in mythic+ as you're dead if you stack up in many cases (or at the very least you're causing more damage than your mastery covers)

Then why don't we get the old MW treatment and get considered as melee ?
We are NOT melee healers, and in most raid fight can NOT stand in melee because we will be targeted by ranged-specific stuff and rain hell on the actual melee dps.

Even if we WERE considered melee, I dont see us standing in melee with the lowest mobility in the game. Its just not going to happen as you would be unable to do anything if you were targetted by a mechanic you had to run out with. You prolly wouldnt even get far enough away in time unless you use both horse charges out and then you're doing fuck all while running back.

[Floopa]

Even if we WERE considered melee, I dont see us standing in melee with the lowest mobility in the game. Its just not going to happen as you would be unable to do anything if you were targetted by a mechanic you had to run out with. You prolly wouldnt even get far enough away in time unless you use both horse charges out and then you're doing fuck all while running back.

DKs, Enhance Shamans, Ret Paladins confirmed unviable.

you have the same 'melee protection' MWs have, essentially it's enough for you to stay in melee if you want to. especially in a raid setting it will be 100% fine.

[Leefa]

DKs, Enhance Shamans, Ret Paladins confirmed unviable.

You do realise enhancement has:
Spirit Walk - 8 sec sprint
Ghost Wolf - whenever the fuck you feel like it
Feral Lunge to get back in melee

So sure DKs have slightly less mobility when you take Cavalier into account and the problem with our mobility is the same problem Ret has (Not that anyone serious would bring a ret paladin to the raid) but I guess you're just doing your usual thing where you try to make holy paladins look like they're the best at everything while ignoring facts.

Also this wasn't a question of being viable or not, this was about wether or not we would stand in melee even if we had full melee protection

[Floopa]

Also this wasn't a question of being viable or not, this was about wether or not we would stand in melee even if we had full melee protection

great. you can do this just fine.

you may want to get use to it too, i have a sneaking suspicion crusader's might will be your best talent w/ t19 2pc.

fwiw i think paladins are strong. not WoD levels of strong, but certainly not weak.

[Deleted]

Hey guys! Just got a Mythic Warforged Bottled Hurricane from Eye of Azshara.

Obviously haste is not our strongest stat, but its still worth it for me to use the trinket over a 825 world quest one with Int + Mastery on it?

Basically, is Bottled Hurricane a good Holy Paladin trinket?

Takes a year to refill the bottle... it does decent healing tho, but i cant see holy palas using it.

Also on the trinket topic i have [Naglfar Fare] and id love to get [Concave Reflecting Lens], what you guys think?

[HPLathus]

Takes a year to refill the bottle... it does decent healing tho, but i cant see holy palas using it.

Also on the trinket topic i have [Naglfar Fare] and id love to get [Concave Reflecting Lens], what you guys think?

There is a great spreadsheet for holy paladins that includes trinket weights. Concave got nerved pretty hard, and Naglfar fare is ahead of it by about 1-2k HPS...

I am currently using Naglfar Fare 835 and an 840 Int/Vers stat stick for trinkets.


I WAS using concave until I did the math on the nerfs, they killed that trinket pretty hard :/

[Harbour]

Bottle is a nice shit if you dont have better trinkets like Naglfar and just started doing mythics dungeons. It actually refils pretty fast (at least i could use it 5/10 stacks in each trash pack fight) and sometimes saves people that stand in aoe crap. Today i did Myth Darkheart and its worked fine. Its usable untill better trinkets.

[Taiina]

There is a great spreadsheet for holy paladins that includes trinket weights. Concave got nerved pretty hard, and Naglfar fare is ahead of it by about 1-2k HPS...

I am currently using Naglfar Fare 835 and an 840 Int/Vers stat stick for trinkets.


I WAS using concave until I did the math on the nerfs, they killed that trinket pretty hard :/

Where is this spreadsheet mate?

Edit; found it but removed link as I was getting request spam and not sure what to change.

[Gilthresa]

Hey guys, 90% of holy paladin guides on the internet tell me to use mark of the trained soldier(chance to proc 300 mastery) but mastery is one of our worst stats... wouldn't it be better to use ancient priestess or mark of the claw? Just want opinions before I enchant my neck piece I just got and waste 10k gold on the wrong one.

[Lucyrotten]

Mastery isn't one of our worst stats. It's actually quite good.