Why blizzard nerfed TANKS AOE damage when its the lazy dps fault

[Deleted]

Oooh, you touch my trallala, my dingdingdong - better nerf tanks because I am to bad to play WoW! I am special and when tanks do more DPS than me, than tanks have to be overpowdered, because I am super super good in these clicky things!

[Eon Drache]

My warrior sims 400k+ on a 2½ minute fight (very generous for a dungeon boss)

Then maybe they have to fix more than just tanks. 150 second fight with elite skill and I only sim at 263k. I went ahead and simmed a 30 second fight giving me 100% uptime on Crusade plus using Execution Sentence and simmed 437k. So I'm calling bs.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

"I'd prefer to be stronger" - genius comment of the year award goes to Dr Intelligence over here.

...Dude....what's with the snark. I was mostly pointing out that I'd rather Blizzard do small nerfs not massive ones that they are inclined to do. I barely tank if at all.

[pmkaboo]

they could remove all damage from tanks and it wouldnt matter...

[Deleted]

Then maybe they have to fix more than just tanks. 150 second fight with elite skill and I only sim at 263k. I went ahead and simmed a 30 second fight giving me 100% uptime on Crusade plus using Execution Sentence and simmed 437k. So I'm calling bs.

[Varitok]

As I said, it's a blanket change because they don't want to commit to anything yet - there's too little data. They're waiting for the important data from Mythic+ and Raids and dealing with the overly high numbers some tanks put out at the expense of weaker tanks. Tuning will come (eventually).

If there is too little data don't change it. That is just bad design. I think this "too little data" thing they keep pulling is bullshit, its been nearly 3 weeks, I knew that tuning was gonna get screwed the second they introduced Artifacts because they don't want people complaining (rightfully so) when they spent hundreds of thousands of AP into their weapon only to have their class nerfed into the ground. Artifacts were a problem, I think they are cool and it would have been better if your AP pool was across all specs.

[Deleted]

You're supposed to take a lot of damage, not deal it. Roll a DPS or gtfo.

I still don't get why DPS are mad about tank damage. It simply makes the dungeon go faster, what is there not to like?

Guardian Druids are fine outside of large packs + Rage of the Sleeper. If that makes certain DPS incredibly insecure, then I don't know if that really warrants sweeping irrational nerfs.

[Ichifails]

Yeah no I had a DH tank yesterday in Mythic VH pulling 220k dps as a tank on bosses. That's a problem. He was top DPS on those 4 man elite squad AoE pulls with 450-500k dps. My unholy AoE spam was only topping at 430k. Nothing to do with lazy. Back in Wrath tanks did like... maybe half the dps that dps specs did. Not 80-90% of the damage the dps did.

If the tank with 220k dps was the top damage single target and 450k-500k was top on 4targets, your group was garbage.

[AleDangerous]

I totally understand the nerf. Some tanks do so much damage to trash packs, getting to the point where my LFD tank partner doesn't even any survivability skill in regular mobs, just to match our dps in trash fights. As a WW Monk, it doesn't bother me cause he (DH Tank) can't even do half my dps in trash fights, but my other partners are a SPriest and Aff Warlock and they don't do half the tank dmg in trash mob fights. I understand the need to ramp up in order to do dmg, but it must be frustating.

[Hctaz]

Nerf specific class' abilities, not blanket nerf an entire role, because DPS feel like their special snowflake safe space is being encroached on.

Well damage dealers are absolutely allowed to be entitled to do damage. It's the whole point of picking the role in the first place. Dps specs should be the highest on potential damage dealt by a large margin. Tanks are meant to take the damage and position mobs, not do that AND ALSO 80-90% single target dps as other specs and significantly higher dps on AoE.

[Schizoide]

Well damage dealers are absolutely allowed to be entitled to do damage. It's the whole point of picking the role in the first place. Dps specs should be the highest on potential damage dealt by a large margin. Tanks are meant to take the damage and position mobs, not do that AND ALSO 80-90% single target dps as other specs and significantly higher dps on AoE.

If I was in the designer's armchair, I would allow tanks to choose between dealing damage and mitigating it with simple stances. Possibly stance-exclusive abilities too, depending on the class.

If they choose to deal damage, say on easy content, they would be tuned to deal 90% of a DPS spec on both single-targets and AE, but sacrifice nearly all their mitigation. For Blood DK, that would mean something like dropping damage on Marrowrend, substantially buffing Heart Strike in offensive stance, and making Death Strike's Blood Shield dependent on the defensive stance.

The one problem with this is newbies-- they might under-gear the content and still choose to play in damage mode. And that would suck for PUGs. That's why you require the stance-- your group can immediately tell the tank is bad if he's in damage stance and doesn't clearly outgear the content.

Blizzard has backed away from stances over the years. They created a ton of bad gameplay-- stance dancing as Arms was awful. But they do have their advantages, to signify a meaningful change in playstyle.

[Halyon]

Oh. My. God! I have to use a little time on my dungeons now?! Preposterous! I want to be able to do dungeons with just a healer, fuck dps!

Pfff, yeah right. Nerf was fine, although, 10% across the board might have been a little overboard perhaps, instead of a bit more finetuning...

[Deleted]

If I was in the designer's armchair, I would allow tanks to choose between dealing damage and mitigating it with mutually exclusive abilities.

If they choose to deal damage, say on easy content, they would deal 90% of a DPS spec on both single-targets and AE, but sacrifice nearly all their mitigation. For Blood DK, that would mean something like dropping damage on Marrowrend and substantially buffing Heart Strike, while also tuning Marrowrend so the DK has no free runes to spend on Heart Strike when in tank mode and making Death Strike healing dependent on Bone Shield stacks.

The one problem with this is newbies-- they might under-gear the content and still choose to play in damage mode. And that would suck for PUGs.

That was what tanks were supposed to play like in legion. They liked the idea of sacrificing mitigation for more damage. For DK's the original idea was Marrowrend for mitigation and Heart Strike for damage. I think Heart strike was meant to do almost twice as much damage was Marrowrend. It seems during beta they forget that this is what their idea was.

Blizzard get lazy really easily. They could have made this playstyle work, but it's too much effort balancing it. What if you get a tank that values mitigation way more than dealing damage. Now your team is losing out on some damage. They get lazy with tank balance every expac. They want their to be less burst damage, they last about a tier because burst damage comes back. Hell in Legion it hasn't been a single tier and there is already a boss that hits for 7.5 million damage.

I was actually shocked when DH was announced to be a tank. They can barley make 5 tanks stand out and balance 5 correctly how could they manage 6. As it turns out they've managed poorly. With Disc not even being a proper healer. We have more dedicated Tank Specs than Healing specs. Which if you ask me is just pathetic.

[Biggles Worth]

You kinda pointed out the problem in your post. "A good dps or geared player is usually on par or better at aoe." A good dps player and a geared dps player should blow a tank out of the water at aoe and single target.

I don't see the problem. So what you are saying is that because a player is bad they should automatically do more damage. If the player is good and their skill isn't enough to compensate the damage loss of not having good gear they should be doing more damage. No, that is not a problem. Get better at your class, spec and get better gear.

[Schizoide]

I don't see the problem.

Tanks are much more survivable than DPS specs, and have a ton of tricks and utility too. If they also deal more damage than the DPS, the ideal team for mythic+ would be 4 tanks and a healer.

Actually, since zone success timers in mythic+ aren't particularly tight like old challenge modes, barring enrage timers on bosses, it may be better to take 4 tanks and a healer post-nerf too.

[purebalance]

for under performing , fine you want longer PVE dungeon runs DPSers your wish is granted

Destro has 0 aoe short of farts of fire. Cleave is AMAZING, but once you hit like 5-10 mobs, there's no way you can keep up even with the aoe talent for incinerate. Has nothing to do with lazy dps, tanks were doing too much damage and that was supposed to be a design thing that they were NOT supposed to be doing good damage while tanking.

[tehdef]

Yeah no I had a DH tank yesterday in Mythic VH pulling 220k dps as a tank on bosses. That's a problem. He was top DPS on those 4 man elite squad AoE pulls with 450-500k dps. My unholy AoE spam was only topping at 430k. Nothing to do with lazy. Back in Wrath tanks did like... maybe half the dps that dps specs did. Not 80-90% of the damage the dps did.

That DH is not running Versa/Mastery, and is likely running Crit/Mastery which ramps up DPS.

That means he's squishier than normal.

[Deleted]

Tanks are much more survivable than DPS specs, and have a ton of tricks and utility too. If they also deal more damage than the DPS, the ideal team for mythic+ would be 4 tanks and a healer.

Actually, since zone success timers in mythic+ aren't particularly tight like old challenge modes, barring enrage timers on bosses, it may be better to take 4 tanks and a healer post-nerf too.

That could easily be solved with just not allowing more then 1 tank and healer in a Mythic.

[tehdef]

Destro has 0 aoe short of farts of fire. Cleave is AMAZING, but once you hit like 5-10 mobs, there's no way you can keep up even with the aoe talent for incinerate. Has nothing to do with lazy dps, tanks were doing too much damage and that was supposed to be a design thing that they were NOT supposed to be doing good damage while tanking.

Why is it the tanks fault that you don't have large scale AoE?

[purebalance]

Why is it the tanks fault that you don't have large scale AoE?

It's not, but the tanks were definitely doing way too much. It had nothing to do with bad dps when the actual tanks were competing with the other dps or surpassing them on aoe. Tanks were flat out doing too much damage while some specs are doing too little.