Emerald Nightmare HC easiest raid in the history of wow?

[Deleted]

Imo, I found HM HC to be easier. I looked up my old statistics and I had less wipes or roughly the same in HM with a guild that was worse than my current one.



I don't think that is possible. Never wiped on Kargath on HC and had one wipe on Nythendra. Of course both bosses are easy, but Nythendra can lead to a wipe faster if people start to fuck things up.

Exactly the same with kargath.

Easy mechanics but people can wipe if they fuck up. Difference being you can fuck up a few times on Nythendra but if you get hit by kargath when eh chases you, or if you pull him through other people, its gg for them.

Harder punnishment for fucking up = harder boss imo

[Deleted]

We cleared normal + first two hc bosses on wednesday in 3 hours of raid time (which was to be expected, since normal is a joke anyway).

We then proceeded to clear EN hc on thursday in 3 hours of raid time. None of the encounters took us more than 2-4 attempts before it went down, and I have to say that (excluding Cenarius and Xavius) the boss mechanics were an absolute joke compared to let's say Highmaul hc.

Never in the history of this game have I been able to clear an entire raid on its release week on HC, or in this case, in more a less a single day of raiding.

Speaking from a DPS perspective:
Nythendra has only one meaningful ability: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Ursoc is butcher 2.0, pretty much no mechanic involved whatsoever, you just have to meet the dps requirements
Dragons is 90% standing in one spot and casting your rotation, too
Renferal is Nythendra come again: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Il'gynoth is basically kill adds, then tunnel on boss till he dies.
Only Cenarius and Xavius have somewhat interesting mechanics, which is quite sad.

I remember that highmaul HC took us several attempts on some bosses and we definitely did not kill imperator in the first week, took us something like 60 attempts before downing him.


Yes, I do realise that mythic will be a lot harder, but don't you also feel that HC is currently massively undertuned and bosses are way too simple design wise?

I agree with you. 9/10 people in this thread are seem to be talking about mythic which is irrelevant when comparing hc highmaul and hc nightmare, and also saying we outgear it when we didnt in highmaul. We're doing the raid in the gear that was available pre raid, same as in highmaul.

[zephid]

HC is supposed to be easy. HC is the old normal mode.

[Deleted]

yeah after my last raid was in MoP I completely laughed at EN. I was like "is this for real? is this was raiding has become?". Blizzard should be a bit more Dark Souls and less Call of Looty.

[Enitzu]

A lot of guilds cant meet the dps checks which is making things much harder for them. HC will probably be nerfed along with most classes on tuesday lol

[K4sk]

We cleared normal + first two hc bosses on wednesday in 3 hours of raid time (which was to be expected, since normal is a joke anyway).

We then proceeded to clear EN hc on thursday in 3 hours of raid time. None of the encounters took us more than 2-4 attempts before it went down, and I have to say that (excluding Cenarius and Xavius) the boss mechanics were an absolute joke compared to let's say Highmaul hc.

Never in the history of this game have I been able to clear an entire raid on its release week on HC, or in this case, in more a less a single day of raiding.

Speaking from a DPS perspective:
Nythendra has only one meaningful ability: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Ursoc is butcher 2.0, pretty much no mechanic involved whatsoever, you just have to meet the dps requirements
Dragons is 90% standing in one spot and casting your rotation, too
Renferal is Nythendra come again: don't drop stuff in raid if you get the debuff, rest is self explanatory
Il'gynoth is basically kill adds, then tunnel on boss till he dies.
Only Cenarius and Xavius have somewhat interesting mechanics, which is quite sad.

I remember that highmaul HC took us several attempts on some bosses and we definitely did not kill imperator in the first week, took us something like 60 attempts before downing him.


Yes, I do realise that mythic will be a lot harder, but don't you also feel that HC is currently massively undertuned and bosses are way too simple design wise?

First of, it's HC.. It's more or less what normal was back in the day.


Kargath Bladefist - For 90% of the players in the raid, all you had to do was stand still and DPS.
The Butcher - Stand still and dps, zero mechanic.
Tectus - Stand still and dps, avoid a couple of shit in the ground.
Brackenspore - Stand still and dps, unless using flamethrower.
Twin Ogron - Stand still and DPS, sidestep a couple of fires.
Ko'ragh - Stand still and DPS.
Imperator Mar'gok - I agree here, Mar'gok had some interesting abilities and took a bit more coordination and effort to down.

[Deleted]

First of, it's HC.. It's more or less what normal was back in the day.


Kargath Bladefist - For 90% of the players in the raid, all you had to do was stand still and DPS.
The Butcher - Stand still and dps, zero mechanic.
Tectus - Stand still and dps, avoid a couple of shit in the ground.
Brackenspore - Stand still and dps, unless using flamethrower.
Twin Ogron - Stand still and DPS, sidestep a couple of fires.
Ko'ragh - Stand still and DPS.
Imperator Mar'gok - I agree here, Mar'gok had some interesting abilities and took a bit more coordination and effort to down.

like so many others here, please stop coming heroic legion with normal mop and before. The fair comparison is heroic highmaul and heroic nightmare.

[Dug]

My guild was able to clear normal this week and we attempted the 1st boss on heroic and have the simple mechanics down but our numbers just aren't there yet. Feels pretty normal to me. If you're a guild that gets into mythic very early on into the tier I imagine everything will be easy for you but for us normal plebs it's more or less the same.

[Deleted]

Kargath is way easier than Nythendra is, never wiped on Kargath (not even MM) vs 2 Nythendra wipes, both mechanic related.
Ursoc is harder than Butcher, split 2 groups+move the boss is harder than just splitting two groups no matter what. Still just DPS check.
Ilg is harder than tectus for sure, you can fuck up pretty easily without focusing, while tectus was a living piñata with hardly 2 mechanics: run with fire, move with mountais.
Elerethe is way WAY harder than Brackenspore, has lots of mechanics. Brackenspore was focus adds and heal fucking shrooms.
Dragons is easier than Twins (IMO), twins had lot of "fuck up" mechanics.
Koragh was more about having a balanced comp (magic and physical dmg) and quite easy, cenarius has lots of adds and shit to learn.
Xavius is easier than Imperator, less mechanics and less ways of fucking up.

Overall EN is harder than HM, but we have a LOT more gear than we had back in WoD. I bet most guilds would get 7/7 HC in HM if they started 650 instead of 635. 15 Ilvls is WAY much.

[Xirrohon]

I cleared Heroic last night as well. Xavius and Spiderbird were interesting and took us 2-3 attempts, the rest were one shots. Some guilds just overgear the raid. I know mine has an 855 ilvl. We also went with a 30 man raid, I think that might have also made things a little easier.

But yea, Im thinking Mythic is going to be pretty tough.

[Deleted]

I've been saying this. I have never once cleared a heroic (pre wod normal) as fast as I have cleared EN. Had some of the best pre raid gear available in previous raids and EN was still Easier.

[Deleted]

@OP

You somehow mixed up tuning with encounter design.
Encounter design wise, what exactly was difficult or more complex in HM from a DD perspective?

The biggest reason why the encounters are easy right now is because they die so fast. Most people (in higher-end guilds) running NHC will barely get any upgrades since they are @ 850+ already.

And thats szpostu by some kind of excuse? Then tunne ot for atlest 860 maybe?

[Bigbazz]

The easiest normal (now heroic) modes were

Naxx 10/25
Obsidian Sanctum 10/25 (no drakes)
Trial of the Crusader 10/25
Dragon Soul 10/25

Emerald dream seems pretty loosely tuned compared to Hellfire Citadel Heroic, Xavius went down easily while Archimonde was genuinely hard... But I suspect that's due to the unique gearing situation in Legion, and I also suspect Mythic will be a different story. For reference our raid group was ilvl 651 and we killed Xavius on the 6th pull. I honestly still don't know much of the details of the fight, I need a good few wipes under my belt usually to get a feel for things, but it's already dead.

[Neoxx]

It's easy because we are already overgeared for heroic EM. Blizzard didn't fuck up the tuning, they just made good gear easily accessible while waiting 3 weeks for content.

[Deleted]

it was a mistake on blizzards part to give us 850ilvl gear, should have been capped at like 835 if they wanted EN hc to be a challenge.

Just look at highmaul for example, normal Highmaul dropped 655 gear but the highest gear you could easily get pre-raid was 640 from doing a daily challenge mode, Boe's which were 665 and mabye one bit of maxed apexis gear pre-raid which was also only 640. However normal EN drops 850 gear and 850 gear is easily accessible already in Mythic dungeons and Mythic+ as well as crafted gear.

[Deleted]

And thats szpostu by some kind of excuse? Then tunne ot for atlest 860 maybe?

This is a entrance level raid, wth do you expect on normal/hc. Naxx wasn't any different in WotLK, or Sarth, or Maly.

[mistahwilshire]

I left at the end of Wotlk, didn't come back till before Legion, so I missed all of this.

Thanks though, I take it this is still true today?

Yep. That's how it is today. HC means literally nothing. It's Normal mode.

Also Vanilla Rag with 40 frost mages is the easiest boss of all time.

- - - Updated - - -

it was a mistake on blizzards part to give us 850ilvl gear, should have been capped at like 835 if they wanted EN hc to be a challenge

Nope. It's right where it's supposed to be. Heroic is not Mythic. It's also not old Heroic. It's fucking Normal. It's supposed to be easy.

[Deleted]

highmaul hc was so easy, just went with randoms in lfg tool lol, also more gear

[Deleted]

Yep. That's how it is today. HC means literally nothing. It's Normal mode.

Also Vanilla Rag with 40 frost mages is the easiest boss of all time.

- - - Updated - - -



Nope. It's right where it's supposed to be. Heroic is not Mythic. It's also not old Heroic. It's fucking Normal. It's supposed to be easy.

Ye I'm not saying it should be hard, but compared to the start of wod with highmaul its like WAY easier.

[Deleted]

I left at the end of Wotlk, didn't come back till before Legion, so I missed all of this.

Thanks though, I take it this is still true today?

Yup except its not 10-25 but 10-30 for things under mythic.