Next week's balance changes

[Soluna]

If you have a look at this week's heroic logs you'll find that the best scoring Warlocks are roughly 10 to 40% behind the best scoring classes/specs for every encounter. Even Destro, the god of two-target-cleave, gets crapped on by Spriests in the Dragons encounter and doesn't end up in the top50 of parses.

Bottom line is: If you're a top DPS in your raid as a Warlock, the other DPS are probably not worth their salt.

Yeah, what are most logs filled with? OUtlaws, Fire mages, Hunters, and if you check Heroic numbers, Destro locks are top on dragons of nightmare. Also there is a lot of cheesing behind the best scoring most of the time :P Another thing to note is that since all these OP classes like Hunters, Fire mages, Outlaws and Unholy dks aren't getting buffs, but we do, we are brought closer to them. So what if a fire mage can do more dps than me and the difference is like 10-40k after the hotfixes?
And yeah, you call them trash groups but I've known lots of them and they have gotten Mythic HFC and BRF before nerfs rolled in. Random groups also have their good players. And well, to be honest, if in every raid I join I am top 3, and I've joined over a hundred pugs in mythics/mythic+/raids so far (ofc mythic+ and raids sample pools are smaller) and there was never a time where I was vastly outdps'ed from anything other than a friend of mine who is Arms warrior. The rest of the time I am top of the meters fighting it out with unh dks, outlaws, hunters, fire mages and dhs. If I have joined that many players, and still haven't seen players beating me by a lot then maybe that means that almost ALL of the playerbase can't squeeze out insane dps which means that I am highly desired by them. I've also seen streams of guilds doing HC this week where warlocks are middle of the meters, nothing wrong with that.

Bottom line is: Warlock isn't the best dps, but if you are destroyed by other dpsers you most likely have l2p issues. Sorry. :X

[Reaper11b]

Why has this thread (one of many) devolved into people vs. Gaidax? Or the many still unhappy warlocks lashing out against those who still feel locks aren't that bad. I find it highly unlikely that Blizzard will do any mechanical overhauls this expansion, tuning and small tweaks (removal of cast time for RoF) sure but does anyone think they'll 'fix' demo or aff play style before the next expansion?

Also at this point Blizzard has said they're aware of everything Warlocks are unhappy with and will monitor/tune appropriately. Does the already dead horse still need beating? I figure at this point either you play the class or one of it's specs because you still enjoy it or revisit Warlocks after Legion because I doubt any core mechanics of the 3 specs will change before then.

[Deleted]

Why has this thread (one of many) devolved into people vs. Gaidax?

Because the "pro" players are mad some people are succesfull with the "shit" state locks are in atm.

[Count Zero]

I wish I'd gone 16 / 16 / 16 now

[FelPlague]

so.... im gunna do better dps on bosses, but im still gunan be declined from every mythic+ group over rank 3? kk

[Dwill]

so.... im gunna do better dps on bosses, but im still gunan be declined from every mythic+ group over rank 3? kk

If you're being declined for that low of a level for Mythic +, the class is not the issue.

[Zzyzz]

Thank you so much for this. Maybe this will finally open Gaidax' eyes.

Good to see more and more people calling him out for his bullshit.

[Deleted]

insta RoF and more damage is nice but my issue with Destro is literally boredom rather than numbers unfortunately since they pruned the shit out of it. Glad for people maining lock but I'll probably still sit on mine for the time being. might have another go on my Frost DK though ^ ^

[Zzyzz]

sure they buffed our damage but the class is still aids to play mechanically all 3 specs

It's the first significant move by blizz in 2 years that isn't a complete "haha fuck you" directed at warlocks.

It does not fix the mechanical and other issues that blizz themselves created when they broke things that worked fine.

[GT4]

I'm surprised they gave moonkin more buffs than Warlocks, and it seems Demo got more buffs than Affliction?

They didn't. Starsurge wasn't buffed at all and it's your highest damage ability, making up for even more of your total damage once you get your legendary.

[Jondar]

Good to see more and more people calling him out for his bullshit.

Lmao wtf are you talking about. He doesn't post bullshit, and that dudes response to him only proved that Gaidax would've been playing a cleave sped and got within 20k of that dude's team's top players playing t3h OP classezz in a single target fight. Only a moron would look at those logs and think that takes away from Gaidax' stance.

It's like you guys think it's impossible to accept being middle of the pack or something. There's nothing wrong with not being OP, and Warlocks perform just fine in EN. Stop caring so much about other people's logs and worry about your own.

[Reaper11b]

Lmao wtf are you talking about. He doesn't post bullshit, and that dudes response to him only proved that Gaidax would've been playing a cleave sped and got within 20k of that dude's team's top players playing t3h OP classezz in a single target fight. Only a moron would look at those logs and think that takes away from Gaidax' stance.

It's weird, people try to help by making recommendations while acknowledging that tuning needs to happen but that makes them full of shit apparently.

[Gaidax]

It's weird, people try to help by making recommendations while acknowledging that tuning needs to happen but that makes them full of shit apparently.

No, people are crying murder and post absolute shitfest crap and consider that "feedback". You have people claiming something along the line of warlocks being 30% or even more behind the mainstream DPS or that it is impossible to do well in raids or that Blizzard is out to get them or that anyone who disagrees about the magintude of the issue is a paid Blizzard shill or has shit teammates.

Nobody including me contested that Warlocks needed buffs, but some people are completely out of touch with reality and any their recommendations are so outlandish and exaggerated that it makes me and quite a few others ponder whether in their case it is indeed a class issue.

I mean look in this thread, even after these buffs people still somehow question that at least some specs of Warlocks will be fine. You have posters who claim Blizzard needs to give double the buff it gave and that we will still be trash tier and declined for M+.

Fuck, I am literally getting crucified here for claiming that with these buffs spec like Destruction will do good and most likely Demo as well. Really, is that such an insane thing to say?

This is simply not serious.

[Jaman]

insta RoF and more damage is nice but my issue with Destro is literally boredom rather than numbers unfortunately since they pruned the shit out of it.

Here's a little secret that people don't really talk about because it goes against the two pre-defined narratives of 'Blizzard dumbing down the game' and 'Destruction is the EZ mode spec': With the addition of Roaring Blaze, Mana Tap, Eradicate, the Artifact ability and the return of Life Tap: It is more difficult to play Destruction at it's peak level than it was in WoD, and there is more to separate top Destruction warlocks from mediocre ones than there has been in a long time.


Ssssssh.

- - - Updated - - -

Why has this thread (one of many) devolved into people vs. Gaidax? Or the many still unhappy warlocks lashing out against those who still feel locks aren't that bad. I find it highly unlikely that Blizzard will do any mechanical overhauls this expansion, tuning and small tweaks (removal of cast time for RoF) sure but does anyone think they'll 'fix' demo or aff play style before the next expansion?

So almost everyone (including I think Gaidax) admit that warlocks aren't in a perfect spot and are lagging behind other DPS classes. And almost everyone has at least some complaint with the changes Blizzard made to mechanics and abilities.

But there are two groups of people having a discussion. On the one hand you have people who realize that even though warlocks may not be in perfect shape still focus on playing their best and contributing to their group the best they can. On the other hand, you have people who just want to kick and cry about how 'broken' things are. You can spot them easily - they're the ones who are using this thread to still cry about how bad warlocks are and make the same complaints over and over about the class mechanics, even though they know very well those type of changes will not be hotfixed.

[Bridius]

insta RoF and more damage is nice but my issue with Destro is literally boredom rather than numbers unfortunately since they pruned the shit out of it. Glad for people maining lock but I'll probably still sit on mine for the time being. might have another go on my Frost DK though ^ ^

They should just make Shadowburn and Backdraft baseline again. Those are two spells that actually add some sort of decision making, and we've had them as long as I can remember. We need another cool talent in the first tier like Roaring Blaze. I like the design of that talent. Simple but changes the playstyle.

[discoslice]

it's a start! yeah, the mechanics, esp. for demo annoy me still, but i'm a bit happier. Will invest more in affliction now and try to get it to 16. I love Affliction its just been sucking hard lately. Destro will keep being my main, and, instant RoF!

[Deleted]

No, people are crying murder and post absolute shitfest crap and consider that "feedback". You have people claiming something along the line of warlocks being 30% or even more behind the mainstream DPS or that it is impossible to do well in raids or that Blizzard is out to get them or that anyone who disagrees about the magintude of the issue is a paid Blizzard shill or has shit teammates.

Nobody including me contested that Warlocks needed buffs, but some people are completely out of touch with reality and any their recommendations are so outlandish and exaggerated that it makes me and quite a few others ponder whether in their case it is indeed a class issue.

I mean look in this thread, even after these buffs people still somehow question that at least some specs of Warlocks will be fine. You have posters who claim Blizzard needs to give double the buff it gave and that we will still be trash tier and declined for M+.

Fuck, I am literally getting crucified here for claiming that with these buffs spec like Destruction will do good and most likely Demo as well. Really, is that such an insane thing to say?

This is simply not serious.

while you're correct, it doesnt change the fact that locks for the most part are more behind than the buffs they were given, doesnt exactly take a rocket scientist to know that if you're 20% dmg away from doing acceptable dmg and you get a 10% buff then you're still far away from being acceptable. im happy that you do well on your lock but i think that has more to do with the lack of skill/gear of the players you play with, literally every other log shows that locks are generally doing badly and needed buffs greater than those that were given. ofc for the most part imo, it isnt really the numbers that are the problem atm, its the gameplay and utter lack of mobility.

[lockybalboa]

I have a strong feeling Gaidax is best pals with one of the devs kek

[Jondar]

while you're correct, it doesnt change the fact that locks for the most part are more behind than the buffs they were given, doesnt exactly take a rocket scientist to know that if you're 20% dmg away from doing acceptable dmg and you get a 10% buff then you're still far away from being acceptable. im happy that you do well on your lock but i think that has more to do with the lack of skill/gear of the players you play with, literally every other log shows that locks are generally doing badly and needed buffs greater than those that were given. ofc for the most part imo, it isnt really the numbers that are the problem atm, its the gameplay and utter lack of mobility.

No it doesn't and no they aren't. Stop saying this garbage.

If you're doing 75% less than the Warlocks you're telling that their group sucks, a 25-30% buff won't help you either. And that's the case ITT. The Warlocks clamoring for much more buffs, saying we're ruined as a class and cannot possibly be competitive, are not the Warlocks that will be doing well in almost any group no matter what buffs we receive. If you look at Warcraft logs, look at the top parses, don't see enough Warlocks and think that that is proof that Warlocks are not good.. then you have no clue what you're looking at or talking about. And it's ridiculous how many times that has been used as "proof" of the Warlock demise.

This is like the fucking General Discussion, holy shit. I came here to get away from that place.. but I think I'd rather rub my nuts against tree bark than continue to read this nonsense. The majority of the people complaining should be spending their time in THIS thread,

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...EAD-FIRST-POST

not these ones.

[Deleted]

It's a 1St tuning pass, to which I'm amazed at the speed of. They where never going to change mechanics just pure numbers. They where never going to hand out huge buffs either. Other specs have also been nerves aswell remember.

I think things will be much closer across the board, and if things are still out as guild progress into mythic and better gear in a few weeks that they will do another tuning pass. It wouldn't surprise me if some changes occur each week until they get thing's acceptable

If the sims are correct and demo is the top patchwerk spec, then that's warranted due to its lack of target switching and immobility. The less your able to move, the higher your stationary dps should be to compensate for heavy movement fights if it's the spec you want to play