Arms Legion Discussion

[GutsTheWarrior]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...838465?lang=en



This shit pisses me off so much. Need to get out there on twitter boys. They legit only listen to whining, considering reverting shadow/havoc changes but no mention of Arms.

Yeah I was triggered/amused at them leaving Warriors out of that

[Valkaneer]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/sta...838465?lang=en



This shit pisses me off so much. Need to get out there on twitter boys. They legit only listen to whining, considering reverting shadow/havoc changes but no mention of Arms.

What's worse is you have to use their dictionary for verbiage in your discussions to be called constructive. A single word they find offensive puts your otherwise very constructive post in the trash heap.

[Anbokr]

Yeah that conscious leaving out of arms pisses me off to no end. They think their spreadsheet method of nerfing EotW is perfectly fine. You can tell the arms nerfs just came from someone looking at relic outliers and not actually playing the spec.

[Rhyzoh]

Yo if u do more raids this week sandbag, we shoulda sandbagged!

[cFortyfive]

Yeah that conscious leaving out of arms pisses me off to no end.

why ? Arms is in the perfect place now with the rest of the class

[thefatty01]

I know this is an arms thread but since we're complaining. I didnt realize they nerfed warriors rage generation so much.. I already felt super duper rage starved as prot.

[Anuibus]

I know this is an arms thread but since we're complaining. I didnt realize they nerfed warriors rage generation so much.. I already felt super duper rage starved as prot.

the nerfs aren't even live yet?

[thefatty01]

the nerfs aren't even live yet?

No like prior to the changes I was feeling rage starved. So cutting it all in 1/2 is gonna suck

[Khelon]

No like prior to the changes I was feeling rage starved. So cutting it all in 1/2 is gonna suck

Thats because the rage you get from taking dmg is based on amount of your % hp lost or aborbs total of your hp.

Say you get to 3m hp, now you need to take about 300k dmg to gain 10 rage (not the actual number btw) but at 2m you just needed 200k. Content that is actually hard will make you feel less rage starved.

[thefatty01]

Thats because the rage you get from taking dmg is based on amount of your % hp lost or aborbs total of your hp.

Say you get to 3m hp, now you need to take about 300k dmg to gain 10 rage (not the actual number btw) but at 2m you just needed 200k. Content that is actually hard will make you feel less rage starved.

i know how it works and its terrible and now theyre nerfing the rage you can actually control. But this is arms so thats that.

[Yassy]

You know one of the major benefits of having a talent tree like the artifact tree is the ability to manipulate class tuning to a much finer degree. Helps cushion the nerf bat.

As an example, if EtW relic stacking was a problem, make EtW the gold trait and swap it with Shattered Defences. EtW stays at 30% or whatever they feel it needs to be, and Shattered Defences takes the relic spot.

They could then adjust shattered defences to better synergize with some of our talents. Instead of being this huge crit buff to our next attack, make it last the duration. The synergy between current CS + Shattered defences + focused rage is partially what makes it so hard to really buff the other two talents.

There are plenty od better tuning solutions than just slamming the nerf dick up classes ass, whether they deserve it or not.

[Chingylol]

Has anyone been able to sim their toon yet with the nerfs included? Curious to see how mastery is now compared to versatility/haste/crit now.

[Shadow Fox]

Has anyone been able to sim their toon yet with the nerfs included? Curious to see how mastery is now compared to versatility/haste/crit now.

One issue is that they stated that some of the changes required a a server reboot, while others didn't. So at the moment, I'm not sure which ones are active and which ones are not.

[Anuibus]

One issue is that they stated that some of the changes required a a server reboot, while others didn't. So at the moment, I'm not sure which ones are active and which ones are not.

This is what they said, "All of these class changes will be applied during the next scheduled weekly maintenance period in each region. Note that there are also a number of PvP-specific changes, which are noted separately below." None of them are live yet, but seem to be implemented into simulationcraft correctly.

[Shadow Fox]

This is what they said, "All of these class changes will be applied during the next scheduled weekly maintenance period in each region. Note that there are also a number of PvP-specific changes, which are noted separately below." None of them are live yet, but seem to be implemented into simulationcraft correctly.

So far, with what I've seen from people posting about Arms / Fury, they don't seem to have much in consistency. :S

[Teaon]

this thread suddnely became quiet, did everyone reroll to fury : (?

[Qoma]

Posted in another thread but that one's small and I think going to die, so I want to put it here instead.

So I've taken the day to simmer on these changes.

It isn't the damage that I'm worried about. The EtW nerf is more than a numbers nerf, it's a nerf to gameplay. EtW provided a form of QoL to Arms that made the spec more interactive, dynamic, and playable. EtW promised that dynamism, that increase in playability. This nerf will break that promise.

The very nature of a trait like EtW is that it admits "Arms doesn't feel good until you're getting CS resets. Take me to make your spec feel better!" So it's only natural for players who have been conditioned to feel that way to want to take it further with relics. The fact that it also increased damage the most was only half of the story here. But nerfing the QoL talent sends the message that "Arms was not intended to be this fun." I hate to use the word fun here because critics seize on it for every justification they need to make, but I want to be clear I'm only directly referencing gameplay with it.

There's the fact that I feel like I'm now getting very little out of the artifact points I'm spending in EtW. A 3% boost per point feels miniscule to the point of obscurity to a layman. Even when the math is done, it works out to an extra point of rage or so on a Mortal Strike? Less on a Slam? Am I really spending multiple artifact points for 0.# increases?

But on a numbers side, Arms builds outside of FR were not particularly strong, but EtW affects their play just as much, and they will suffer even more as a result; is FR is brought down to mid tier, then a Slam/Trauma/IFTK build will be down in the dumps where the specs that were just buffed were.

The thing that bugs me most about all of this is that players were given a bill of sale during pre patch and the first month of Legion that said: Don't worry, Arms plays rough until you can buff Tactician with EtW. And this was true.

But then Bliz created a high amount of synergy in Arms: FR buffing MS buffed by precise strikes and Shattered Defenses, and when players follow through on that high amount of synergy that was created for them, they get punished for it.

There are a lot more elegant solutions that have been suggested elsewhere. But I feel like these are the reasons why the current suggested tuning fix is not a good one.

[cFortyfive]

this thread suddnely became quiet, did everyone reroll to fury : (?

Mage leveling intensifies or something. On a serious note they are probably farming ap for fury will be nice when everyone sees how dogshit that spec is.

It isn't the damage that I'm worried about. The EtW nerf is more than a numbers nerf, it's a nerf to gameplay. EtW provided a form of QoL to Arms that made the spec more interactive, dynamic, and playable. EtW promised that dynamism, that increase in playability. This nerf will break that promise.

Personally I am way more concerned with how much more brutal the rng will effect your already low numbers. Getting used to 200k mortal strikes for extended periods for the lack of cs procs is just the icing on the cake. Actually I'd be fine with it despite it being more boring if it wouldn't mean that I'd deal literally below tank dps.

[jjbarea]

this thread suddnely became quiet, did everyone reroll to fury : (?

why would you re roll a worse class? if you think arms is trash and want to re roll you certainly wont re roll to fury LOL

[Mondroid]

I still don't get why the cd on cs is so long. In what world can you go 40 and now 30 seconds without a reset and remain viable? I wouldn't mind the changes so much if cs was like an 18 second cd.