Teenagers keep trying to invade my guild

[Phuongvi]

damn right we did!! in everqust we didnt have fancy things like mounts and maps! you youngsters are so priviliged nowadays!!!

Back in my days I used thottbot to get shit done, now you have everything on your map.
/joke

Back on topic, Back in the days I used to play with 16 years old, now I guess they are 22. For the 17 years I guess they saw daddy and mommy do raiding together and they wanna try that ?

As for me I could apply to this reason ¨because people at 30 dont have time for stupdi shit like raiding on schedule - we have much more important stuff to do irl¨

[Tharkkun]

because people at 30 dont have time for stupdi shit like raiding on schedule - we have much more important stuff to do irl

Yes, watching baseball, cupcake wars or whatever other hobby you do is more important. /rolls eyes. Hobbies are hobbies and it doesn't matter where you spend your time.

The largest age group of WoW players about 5 years ago was 25-37.

[Deleted]

Part of being an adult is, surely, to recognise the stage that younger people are in, and to let them be in that place. Open up and you'll be surprised at some of the conversations you can get. The biggest difference between a school-going teen and an "adult" for me is the level of responsibility. Well, they can't help it that they haven't live long enough yet, can they.

I have to say I like the new mentality. I am so tired of the "back in the days" talk. Most people in my guild joined in MoP. IN MOP (or late cata). Wrath-baby? Not a term they are familiar with. I like that. It's nice to have a viewpoint from a player that doesn't know Vanilla as it was. It's important to have these people if you want to move on.

[RoKPaNda]

Yes, watching baseball, cupcake wars or whatever other hobby you do is more important. /rolls eyes. Hobbies are hobbies and it doesn't matter where you spend your time.

The largest age group of WoW players about 5 years ago was 25-37.

And the largest group of WoW players 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, etc don't raid. All hobbies are not equivalent, and that's something that the young raiding population in WoW doesn't understand. If I want to watch baseball or cupcake wars, I can watch those things when they're on or I can DVR them. Or I can choose to skip them one day/week/whatever. A raid is a commitment, I can't just say "Well it's Wednesday night, I don't really feel like raiding tonight." and just skip the raid. Maybe once or twice, but not often. It also involves spending additional time in game farming consumables / optimizing my character's gear / etc. That level of time commitment every single week without break made perfect sense to me when I was a teenager, but at 29? The very idea of doing that is preposterous.

[Deleted]

I can't believe this is a real thread.

31 year old here. Some of my best raiders over the years were 18-22.

When I started playing, I was 18.

Well sure but now I'm in my mid twenties. So I get to discriminate against younger people. I'd not play with anyone below 20 for example. Why? Because reasons.

[Traveler Voltin]

I see 17 year olds and below as kids.

then you are a problem.

[Deleted]

Did all veteran players stop playing?

I can only give you my personal anecdotes, but I'm approaching 50 and have been playing MMOs and before that MUDs since the early 90s (and BBS before that, but who cares, right?).

My kids are a bit older, so I don't really have the same "baby panic" as many 30-somethings, but I do have family/friend obligations, hobbies and of course plenty of work related engagements. The usual adulting stuff..

Legion has been very tough so far.

The design is in a way very reminiscent of Vanilla/TBC era MMOs - you must invest quite a lot of time in preparations, just turning up for raidnight isn't really a thing at the moment. It's kinda a good thing I think - but it also limits participation to those who actually are able to put in the time. That might be a good thing as well - MMOs have always been a niche genre, the Wrath<->WoD era was trying to change that, seems Blizzard is trying to dial that back a couple of notches.

I've largely given up raiding in this expac, there's no way I can manage to put in the time required to 'git gud' or to compete with younger people who have almost unlimited time resources. Kinda sucks, but hey, it's the classical MMO thing - so can't really complain too much either.

So I think I'm just going to take it easy and very casually, maybe pugging some stuff when I have the time -

[Deleted]

I can only give you my personal anecdotes, but I'm approaching 50 and have been playing MMOs and before that MUDs since the early 90s (and BBS before that, but who cares, right?).

My kids are a bit older, so I don't really have the same "baby panic" as many 30-somethings, but I do have family/friend obligations, hobbies and of course plenty of work related engagements. The usual adulting stuff..

Legion has been very tough so far.

The design is in a way very reminiscent of Vanilla/TBC era MMOs - you must invest quite a lot of time in preparations, just turning up for raidnight isn't really a thing at the moment. It's kinda a good thing I think - but it also limits participation to those who actually are able to put in the time. That might be a good thing as well - MMOs have always been a niche genre, the Wrath<->WoD era was trying to change that, seems Blizzard is trying to dial that back a couple of notches.

I've largely given up raiding in this expac, there's no way I can manage to put in the time required to 'git gud' or to compete with younger people who have almost unlimited time resources. Kinda sucks, but hey, it's the classical MMO thing - so can't really complain too much either.

So I think I'm just going to take it easy and very casually, maybe pugging some stuff when I have the time -

Apparently this is what people always wanted. To go back from WoCasualcraft back to design from older expansions (Vanilla and BC). There's a lot of things that used to be a part of WoW long ago:

-Consumables are expensive, you have to farm for them or devote time to goldmaking
-The game involves a lot of grind: you can't even begin the endgame without reaching proper level with all main reputations (even tho you might cap with just 2 zones)
-AP and AK are designed to take a large bit of your time
-Alts aren't a thing anymore, at least not at the level we used to have for years before
-There's a punishment even for switching a spec: another AP grind
-Some dungeons even have attunements of sort - we haven't seen this since... TBC! We also never seen dungeons unaccesible via LFG since... actually never! Ever since LFG existed, it allowed you to queue for any dungeon that came out since.
And a couple more

This expansion seems like a direct contradiction of what WOD was. WOD was ultra light on player time investment. I mean, really ULTRA light. You capped, did some Ashran for easy 700 ilvl gear, bought a bunch of cheap gear pieces off ah and you were ready to go - mythic dungs and HFC (or BRF prior to 6.2). For gold you just logged in twice a day on every character, sending these followers. It could earn you enough gold for a subscription token in just few days (I was making 100k/week)

People apparently hated WoD for this lightness. There just wasn't content for players outside of the raid night. Players apparently LIKE to do something other than "turn up for a raid and that's it". Legion so far has very positive feedback from players! It really does, yes there's occasional complainer but it's nowhere near the level of WOD hatestorm.

[Tharkkun]

And the largest group of WoW players 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, etc don't raid. All hobbies are not equivalent, and that's something that the young raiding population in WoW doesn't understand. If I want to watch baseball or cupcake wars, I can watch those things when they're on or I can DVR them. Or I can choose to skip them one day/week/whatever. A raid is a commitment, I can't just say "Well it's Wednesday night, I don't really feel like raiding tonight." and just skip the raid. Maybe once or twice, but not often. It also involves spending additional time in game farming consumables / optimizing my character's gear / etc. That level of time commitment every single week without break made perfect sense to me when I was a teenager, but at 29? The very idea of doing that is preposterous.

Not a single person in my guild is under 21 right now. Most are in their late 20's to early 40's. The majority of our guild participates in organized raiding whether with our guild or pugs.

Raiding is no more of a commitment than taking my daughters to dance practice, after school events, driving them to work, etc. They are also scheduled months or weeks ahead of time. The amount of commitment required is only insane if you're in Mythic raiding. If you set the standard for your goals to be realistic you don't need to spend 60 hours a week playing.

I've been involved in a guaranteed 2, sometimes 3 day a week raiding guild since BC. I'm 41. I have 3 daughters who are 17 and up now. I balance my time just fine. There's classes, seminars and books about time management for those who can't do this.

[Snackpack]

I didn't realize WoW was bringing in many new players in recent expansions. I thought teenagers were the minority.

I'm probably the youngest in my guild at 27, but most of us don't have time to raid. Pretty much all my raiding was done 17-22 because that's when I had the most time.

[Deleted]

People apparently hated WoD for this lightness. There just wasn't content for players outside of the raid night. Players apparently LIKE to do something other than "turn up for a raid and that's it". Legion so far has very positive feedback from players! It really does, yes there's occasional complainer but it's nowhere near the level of WOD hatestorm.

Indeed, I do believe I said it was a good thing.

EVE Online did all the mistakes one could do with "passive gameplay" a decade and a half ago - but for some reason Blizzard felt they had to repeat all of them in WoD - which was really strange. Blizzard is also known for their 180-turns in designs - they seem to have tough time finding the golden middle road - Legion design is such a sharp turn from what WoD was, it gives you a whiplash and a nosebleed.

I can understand and agree that Legion style design is really what MMOs should be, it's the old-school pedigree. This does make it very hard for people like myself to participate though. Again, that might be a good thing, we had our run - and as much as I'd like to turn back the clock 15 years - that doesn't happen, my life doesn't look like that anymore.

[unfilteredJW]

It's not that people don't know how to. It's just that they understand they don't have to.

Yeah, being a dick is easier than not. I grasp that concept, I was just pointing to the alternative.

[Heladys]

Close your guild for ten years. When you come back I guarantee they will no longer be teenagers.

[Deleted]

Maybe this comes as as suprise to you, a lot of kids started playing at 8-12 years of age, and now theyre around 20. I'm 24 and started when I was 13.

[Rykarr]

Being 17-22 years old is fine so long as they're mature. I mean that was around my age when I started raiding seriously. Can't expect to get exclusively older players into your guild since they're probably tied down by more adult responsibilities (though 17-22 year olds should be responsible for school stuff, should).

I'd never invite someone under 16 though. I remember having the guild PUG with a 12 year old that sounded like an 8 year old who asked us not to swear in voice chat because his mom may have been listening.

[Animalhouse]

The game is FILLED with entitled millennials. Internet tough guys that talk mad shit and the PC hipsters that can barely hide their cynicism.
These mainly fit the 16-26 demographic.
This is of course going to happen in a game that is 12 years old.

I'm 39 and have no issues with the young guys in the guild (our GM is 19), alot of us shoot the shit in TS. It's those young smug bastards that I have to interact with out in the game world that really drive me nuts. Thankfully it is not an all the time issue. I more than pull my weight when I do heal pug mythics but I did a LFR EM yesterday and holy shit where there some hardcore asshats! DBM trash talk spam and 4 guys going apeshit when the group wiped on Il'gynoth.
WoW has facilitated alot of the bad behavior due to no accountability. There should be a way to log issues with players that can be seen by other players. It would be hard to make something that is not abused though. Most would only use it if a person is being a jerk or "bad" and alot of people would be negative. I do think some kind of comment card that you could rate people 1-5 stars. It could pop up after every run and you can quickly vote and comment with the player being able to respond and explain the situation. Much like ebay ratings. Alot of these toxic jerks need to be brought in line period blank.

I have gotten off topic a bit but having new young people is not bad. It's the immaturity that can accompany that combined with anonymity and lack of accountability that creates the toxic soup we see. My son is in the guild and I instruct him how he should act (while being himself)....most importantly he has me as an example. If he turns into an asshat toxic WoW gamer I have failed. Most parents are are oblivious to their children's attitude when online. Even still, teenagers are going to be teenagers. I smh at some of you people that think age has nothing to do with maturity, it has a lot to do with it as well as the example parents give when interacting with others irl and online. We are the product of our environment and experience.

[Deleted]

What makes 17-22 olds "Kids"?

Typically it's what they say and how they behave.

[callipygoustp]

damn right we did!! in everqust we didnt have fancy things like mounts and maps! you youngsters are so priviliged nowadays!!!

Yeah, and we ran with 72 players in a raid with no voice chat. Try coordinating that effectively! And lets not forget that for a long time raids weren't instanced : good stuff, I still miss some aspects of EQ.

[Herbert]

Did all veteran players stop playing?

What happened to all the 30+ guys and gals? Got married and made kids?

I guess most 30+ are/already have quit the game?

Correct, we have all moved on to better things and left people like you behind to be the senior citizens of Warcraft. When my kid is 30 (24 years from now), maybe they can join your guild since I can tell you will still be leading it.

[Deleted]

Correct, we have all moved on to better things

Not from the WoW forums though?