His rebirth will be the story of your redemption.

[Spl4sh3r]

So i completed the Illidan storyline on live now, though i had to put myself through this rather painful questchain, the finale just blew me away.

Not the Illidan fight, no, the completion questtext for a character that killed Illidan. (The questtext is different for DH and character that did not kill Illidan)



http://www.wowhead.com/quest=44481/destiny-unfulfilled

Personally, i couldn't stand Xe'ra and this Illidan praise, yet the final sentence just takes the cake.

So the story Legion concerning Illidan is not about him, but rather we have to redeem ourselves because we killed him.

So Illidan moves from a grey character, to a pure villain, to the ultimate good in the Universe that we foolishly killed while our hearts and minds were corrupted by hatred.

I don't have any issues with the player character not being the ultimate hero all the time, but this is just awful.

I am curious as to what the text for DH and those that didn't kill Illidan. If you are going to mention they are different at least add it in as well. Because I got the same text as you quoted and I had killed him.

[Enthralled]

If you go by the Warcraft 3 storyline, you should realize that Illidans true goal was merely Might and Magic.

You keep repeating this endlessly -- like for months now, actually -- and ignoring anyone who presents the very simple evidence that "Might and Magic" were only part of his motivations. Illidan's story just wasn't as shallow as that. Had it been, people wouldn't see anything in him and wouldn't have been so disappointed to see him casually thrown away as a "lol, he went crazy" boss with no real explanation or further story in Burning Crusade.

[Kralljin]

You keep repeating this endlessly -- like for months now, actually -- and ignoring anyone who presents the very simple evidence that "Might and Magic" were only part of his motivations.

This "part of his motivations" came in with the Illidan book, which are irrelevant if you discuss the Ingame portrayal of Illidan in Warcraft 3 / BC.

Illidan's story just wasn't as shallow as that.

In BC? It was, he was an ass to the people of Outland.

Personally i didn't mind, he always had a thirst for power and rarely cared about other people except for Tyrande, not that hard to go full tyrant from there.

Had it been, people wouldn't see anything in him and wouldn't have been so disappointed to see him casually thrown away as a "lol, he went crazy" boss with no real explanation or further story in Burning Crusade.

More like that their favorite character was thrown under the bus.

The explanation? Fel Orcs, Naga operation in Zangarmarsh, enslavement of the broken, list goes on.

[Deleted]

Yeah, well she's a Naaru. I've never liked those guys.

[Strategos]

Not really.

Unless you state why, but Malfurions statement was rather specific and in line with Illidan in BC.



If you go by the Warcraft 3 storyline, you should realize that Illidans true goal was merely Might and Magic.

Never taken that for a goal that any person who always had "good intentions" in mind would follow, but that's just me.

Which also seemed in line with BC, because he basically ruled Outland and was looking for a way to control all water in Outland along with more Magic stuff (Ata'mal Crystals).

You're arguing that Malfurion, an in-game character who has been known to be insecure of Illidan in the Stormrage novel, who looks upon use of the arcane magic as a deplorable practice, ought to be an objective source on his brother. All I can do is laugh at how silly you're being.

Also, you saying his character's true goal was merely Might and Magic just goes to prove you fundamentally didn't understand his character in Warcraft 3, and still fail to continue to do so.

[Enthralled]

The explanation? Fel Orcs, Naga operation in Zangarmarsh, enslavement of the broken, list goes on.

That's not an explanation for the crazy. It's a laundry list of the symptoms. Again, you're simply going in circles, repeating the same things over and over.

[Mehrunes]

its says that about Lights Heart ? the shiny glowy thing ?


if so it would be Void Lord made

Pretty sure the Inquisitor saying that meant the Class Order Hall.

[Kralljin]

You're arguing that Malfurion, an in-game character who has been known to be insecure of Illidan in the Stormrage novel, who looks upon use of the arcane magic as a deplorable practice, ought to be an objective source on his brother.

Didn't sound like Malfurion was judging Illidan, he told Remulos that Illidan went mad after his defeat at Icecrown citadel.

Considering that he brags about said defeat doesn't exactly help to deny this.

Also, you saying his character's true goal was merely Might and Magic just goes to prove you fundamentally didn't understand his character in Warcraft 3, and still fail to continue to do so.

I am quoting what Illidan literally said about himself.

That's not an explanation for the crazy. It's a laundry list of the symptoms. Again, you're simply going in circles, repeating the same things over and over.

He went mad after his defeat against Arthas, happens sometimes if people suffer a heavy loss.

Then he went on to bring Outland under his heel because he knew KJ is coming for him.

That is the explanation given in BC, stop trying to read stuff into this simply because you dislike it.

Did other factors play a role? Maybe, Being locked up for 10k years, being a demon hybrid, carrying the Skull of Gul'dan around, knowing you're on the shitlist of the Leader of the Burning Legion might have played a role but i don't really think those would matter.

[Berengil]

This is perhaps the most nonsense derping moment in lore this xpac so far.

Yes, I realize that Illidan's primary target was the Legion.

So.
F-cking.
What.

I will not retread through all of the f-ckery he was engaged in that came to light in BC questing. He simply went beyond the pale. Crossing the line doesn't begin to describe it.

What should he have done then, you ask me?

Share everything he learned about the Legion's scope with neutral third parties who then passed it on to the Alliance and Horde. Literally every single piece of info he gained.
STRICTLY limit his forces to attacks on the Legion. If there was any chance of the action being taken having a negative effect on anyone else, call it the hell off.
Order his Illidari to immediately retreat from ANY confrontation with Alliance and Horde forces. No exceptions.


These measures, at a minimum , might give him a moral leg to stand on.

I can see my main telling that naaru this:

" Are you blind to the things he's done in pursuit of his goal? I have never wavered from my principles while fighting the Old Gods, the Scourge, or the Burning Legion. He could have improved my opinion of him and still pursued his hunt, but the cursed arrogant bastard did nothing to make peace with those who should have been his strongest allies! Damn you, you arrogant crystalline fool! I will fight the Legion until the last demon is dead or I am!"

" And I will do it without compromising who I am! Go shine in the Great Dark if all you're going to do is preach to someone like myself who's fought for this world without becoming a monster! If I see you on the field of battle, I suggest you fight, not sermonize!"

/spit

/teleport

[Enthralled]

That is the explanation given in BC, stop trying to read stuff into this simply because you dislike it.

Well, Blizzard themselves are dissatisfied with it, and have said as much for a long time. Stop trying to argue that they're wrong and he's still nothing more than a crazy raid boss because you don't like it and roll with the new developments to his story.

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I can see my main telling that naaru this:

" Are you blind to the things he's done in pursuit of his goal?

She, apparently, does not care what you think. And even though it's still the first patch of the expansion and we still haven't even seen the guy yet (except his corpse in green crystal) let alone have a clue as to what the outcome of the story will be, people are raging about this. It's awesome.

[Berengil]

Well, Blizzard themselves are dissatisfied with it, and have said as much for a long time. Stop trying to argue that they're wrong and he's still nothing more than a crazy raid boss because you don't like it and roll with the new developments to his story.

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She, apparently, does not care what you think. And even though it's still the first patch of the expansion and we still haven't even seen the guy yet (except his corpse in green crystal) let alone have a clue as to what the outcome of the story will be, people are raging about this. It's awesome.

I specifically am not raging about anything. It's just another one of Blizz's dumb retcons. /yawn

My character, OTOH, would be absolutely livid, and probably tell her to never presume to speak to him again.

[Kralljin]

Stop trying to argue that they're wrong and he's still nothing more than a crazy raid boss

Never said they're wrong, but this pseudo line of retcons they are riding is just bad.

Xe'ra dialogues just show to what this new storyline of Illidan led to, that is the essence of the problem.

I said right off the bat when the Illidan novel came out, the whitewashing of Illidans deeds in BC is bad because players look like idiots, now we have an Npc that presumably becomes a central piece of the story who pretty much calls us idiots.

[Deleted]

Yes, I realize that Illidan's primary target was the Legion.

Illidan's primary target was Tyrande's pants. That's the realization that he came just before his death, he "sacrificed everything"... except for precisely the thing made him to do all the crap, Tyrande.

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I said right off the bat when the Illidan novel came out, the whitewashing of Illidans deeds in BC is bad because players look like idiots, now we have a an Npc that presumably becomes a central piece of the story who pretty much calls us idiots.

The thing is, who whitewashes Illidan? Blizzard still shows all the crap he done in the past, it's just the retard windchime that went full yandere with his fel d**k.

[Frontenac]

You're arguing that Malfurion, an in-game character who has been known to be insecure of Illidan in the Stormrage novel, who looks upon use of the arcane magic as a deplorable practice, ought to be an objective source on his brother. All I can do is laugh at how silly you're being.

Also, you saying his character's true goal was merely Might and Magic just goes to prove you fundamentally didn't understand his character in Warcraft 3, and still fail to continue to do so.

Malfurion said indeed in Vanilla, in an apparition before Remulos in Moonglade,

Cenarius fights at my side. Illidan sits atop his throne in Outland – brooding. I'm afraid that the loss to Arthas proved to be his breaking point. Madness has embraced him, Remulos. He replays the events in his mind a thousand times per day, but in his mind, he is the victor and Arthas is utterly defeated. He is too far gone, old friend. I fear that the time may soon come that our bond is tested and it will not be as it was at the Well in Zin-Azshari.

This is not an opinion, he was merely stating a fact. He is even sad of this situation.

And yes, in Warcraft 3, Illidan's main motivation was magic and power. The only reason he was fighting the demons was to please Tyrande, because she freed him. It was not to save the world. He was even ready to torn it apart to kill the Lich King. In TFT, he even said it himself:

Lordship over this world has never been my aim... only the power... only the magic.

So, yeah, Illidan in the RTS was pretty much unidimensional. Like most characters, to speak frankly... Not that I refuse any developpement in Illidan's character, but that's how he was in Warcraft 3.

[Enthralled]

Malfurion said indeed in Vanilla, in an apparition before Remulos in Moonglade,

This is not an opinion, he was merely stating a fact. He is even sad of this situation.

But this isn't even true and doesn't reflect what Illidan was actually doing during that time period. How on earth could Malfurion know? Read the Illidan book -- he was not lying around being emo about the Arthas fight. He was extremely busy during this time period building up his forces. Nor was he thinking of Arthas. His mind was on staying under KJ's radar while attacking the Legion there on Outland.

[Florena]

I can only assume it was retconned, because it does line up with Illidan shouting about having beaten arthas in BC during a quest. So at the time it waa true Illidan was nuts, with with the novel and Legion they're retconning it.

[Frontenac]

But this isn't even true and doesn't reflect what Illidan was actually doing during that time period. How on earth could Malfurion know? Read the Illidan book -- he was not lying around being emo about the Arthas fight. He was extremely busy during this time period building up his forces. Nor was he thinking of Arthas. His mind was on staying under KJ's radar while attacking the Legion there on Outland.

The Illidan book has just been published. Warcraft 3 was released in 2002, TFT in 2003, and WoW in 2004. Things have changed, lore was enriched, but in Warcraft 3, Illidan was simply a magic and power hungry maverick with feelings for Tyrande.

Also, here's what he says at the Battle of Crimson Watch, in TBC:

Lord Illidan Stormrage yells: So you have defeated the Crimson Sigil. You now seek to challenge my rule? Not even Arthas could defeat me, yet you dare to even harbor such thoughts? Then I say to you, come! Come <name>! The Black Temple awaits...

He sounds pretty delusional to me.

[Enthralled]

I can only assume it was retconned, because it does line up with Illidan shouting about having beaten arthas in BC during a quest. So at the time it waa true Illidan was nuts, with with the novel and Legion they're retconning it.

A quest in Outland that has Illidan yelling about having beaten Arthas does not "line up" with Malfurion's claim that Illidan spent his days sitting atop the Black Temple "brooding" and replaying the events in his mind "a thousand times a day". Again I ask, how could Malfurion have known such a thing, especially the specifics of what is going on in his brother's mind? He never says. The Illidan book mentions the Arthas incident a couple of times and implies that Illidan needs to keep from touching the wound (which seems to have a lingering illness effect not unlike those inflicted by Nazgul blade in Tolkien's books) and to focus to stop himself from thinking about what happening, lest he get distracted from what needs to be done. This, IMO, is a better depiction of such an event besides "LOL HE WENT NUTS".

And sure, it might be a retcon. But if you look at Legion, they've handled what they've "retconned" about Illidan much more gracefully than they have a lot of other things. This whole expansion is so full of retcons that an entire book could be written detailing it. The Broken Isles and all of their inhabitants are gigantic retcons, much worse than anything than any of you have to say about Illidan's backstory. All of this nitpicking about "whitewashing" him is really funny when viewed in this light.

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The Illidan book has just been published. Warcraft 3 was released in 2002, TFT in 2003, and WoW in 2004. Things have changed, lore was enriched, but in Warcraft 3, Illidan was simply a magic and power hungry maverick with feelings for Tyrande.

.... so? We're discussing current lore -- all of the lore taken together, including the Illidan book, not just how he was perceived in 2002/2003/whenever.

[Flutterguy]

Know who else is a mortal enemy of the Legion? The old Gods. Maybe they're misunderstood too.

[Frontenac]

.... so? We're discussing current lore -- all of the lore taken together, including the Illidan book, not just how he was perceived in 2002/2003/whenever.

No. I was discussing with Strategos about Illidan's portrayal in WC3. I just haven't noticed that you were not him...

Anyway, on your question about how Malfurion knew about Illidan, it was implied that he learned about it from the Emerald Dream. That discussion happened after you killed a Dragon of Nightmare. It was in patch 1.8. Well before TBC. So, Illidan could have been brooding then and got his act together later. He still believed he has not been defeated by Arthas though. What Malfurion said was not far from the truth. I mean the "truth" that was served to us for TBC...

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Know who else is a mortal enemy of the Legion? The old Gods. Maybe they're misunderstood too.

Of course they are. Anyone who tried to understand them fell into insanity...