Munkkys Vengeance Demon Hunter Guide UPDATED 7.3

[lovingbenji]

No reason to take a dh

Which is actually my point

Not the best DPS, not the best surv, below average at anything even before the 7.0.3 nerf. A bit sad.

[sosleapy]

almost got me wondering if i want to reroll now....

[vulena]

I have checked the armory of the first 15 guilds that started the Mythic on WoWprogress. I could not find one guild bringing a DH Tank ... everything is fine ....

There is actually one Veng tank, on at least one fight, on one of the guilds tied at 5 bosses right now. Look through again.

Probably a magic-heavy fight, but who knows.

[Delimit]

There is actually one Veng tank, on at least one fight, on one of the guilds tied at 5 bosses right now. Look through again.

Probably a magic-heavy fight, but who knows.

Who? The only veng tank I've seen was used as a 3rd tank as an offspec.

Also, DH's are mediocre tanks against magic.

[Tech614]

Probably a magic-heavy fight, but who knows.

This would never be a reason to bring a Vegeance into the raid... Not the worst at it, but not even close to the best.

[Meanshield]

Why would you? Bear and warrior have best surv and pally is decent survive with most dps. No reason to take a dh

It's a great game where 2-3 of the tanks in it arent even considered. Skillfully balanced by Blizzard.

The recent change to Mastery has made me a soft-teddy against physical attacks. Im not looking forward to Ursoc HC with this awful physical DR.

I've even had to change my entire playstyle going with Fracture instead and relying even more heavily on Soul Barrier with +4 Lesser Fragments.

[Deleted]

It's a great game where 2-3 of the tanks in it arent even considered. Skillfully balanced by Blizzard.

The recent change to Mastery has made me a soft-teddy against physical attacks. Im not looking forward to Ursoc HC with this awful physical DR.

I've even had to change my entire playstyle going with Fracture instead and relying even more heavily on Soul Barrier with +4 Lesser Fragments.

I ditched my DH alt for tonight's HC split runs and went with my Brewmaster instead (Druid main). Never looked back.

[Meanshield]

I ditched my DH alt for tonight's HC split runs and went with my Brewmaster instead (Druid main). Never looked back.

Thing is, I like Vengance, I just dont enjoy being so squishy. Its clearly an error atleast with what gear levels we got atm. Maybe later in the expac such a huge nerf would be doable.

[Ealyssa]

almost got me wondering if i want to reroll now....

I'm on the same boat. Not a really hardcore player anymore (won't clear HM before at least 2-3 weeks). But seeing how average DH tanking is makes me a bit sad. Switched from prot paly (played during MoP and WoD) and now thinking about rerolling to something else.

But the amount of time put into my DH : nolifed HARD for the first two weeks of legion, farming M+ with a nice bunch of friends, pushing my weapons AP. All this things ake the idea vomit inducing (will be exalted to suramar tommorow, doing it again ? NOOOOOPE)

And to make things worse, the second tank I like to play the most is currently BrM
Why can't I just enjoy spaming brainlessly ignore pain ?

At least vengeance is still very fun to play. Really hope that blizzard make things better in 7.1 We are a new class and work is still needed, we may see some nice balancing (remember BrM at MoP launch).

[grizzlysaurusrex]

Is the Jacin's Ruse set (3000 mastery from Arcway/Court of Stars) worth breaking for a 20 item level upgrade in one of the slots?

[Tech614]

I'm on the same boat. Not a really hardcore player anymore (won't clear HM before at least 2-3 weeks). But seeing how average DH tanking is makes me a bit sad. Switched from prot paly (played during MoP and WoD) and now thinking about rerolling to something else.

But the amount of time put into my DH : nolifed HARD for the first two weeks of legion, farming M+ with a nice bunch of friends, pushing my weapons AP. All this things ake the idea vomit inducing (will be exalted to suramar tommorow, doing it again ? NOOOOOPE)

And to make things worse, the second tank I like to play the most is currently BrM
Why can't I just enjoy spaming brainlessly ignore pain ?

At least vengeance is still very fun to play. Really hope that blizzard make things better in 7.1 We are a new class and work is still needed, we may see some nice balancing (remember BrM at MoP launch).

Unless you're at the bleeding edge of progression you'll be fine. No reason to reroll. Also the mastery nerf was so over the top and a knee jerk reaction to a problem it caused other problems. Wouldn't be surprised to see another knee jerk reaction buff in the near future.

This nerf really ruined Mythic Ursoc for any DH tank this week though. Like literally shit on them, it's possible but maybe the most painful thing to ever do in the game. Like if we pull him this week, I'm getting on the ole brewmaster.

[redfella]

It's a great game where 2-3 of the tanks in it arent even considered. Skillfully balanced by Blizzard.

The recent change to Mastery has made me a soft-teddy against physical attacks. Im not looking forward to Ursoc HC with this awful physical DR.

Heroic Ursoc hits like a wet noodle, so did Mythic Nythaendra. The thing is, if you play defensively, you do just ok, not as well as a Bear facerolling his keyboard, but just ok. The downside is that when you play defensively, a similarly geared Bear will also dish substantially more damage. Our survivability isn't as bad as people make it sound, it's just the fact that our DPS is so much reliant on using many of our defensive resources offensivelly, that the tradeoffs to playing safe vs dealing ok damage are quite lame (I'm talking about Mythic raiding here, at least in M+ we can go balls to the wall while waiting for a pack to die before we run out of our CDs -> Kite if necessary).

For Mythic progression, Warrior, Druid and Pally all have their niches and are considered god-tier, while Monks, DK's and DH's can make do, but are far from optimal. For anything else than Mythic progression on the current item levels, all tanks are perfectly viable.

I've even had to change my entire playstyle going with Fracture instead and relying even more heavily on Soul Barrier with +4 Lesser Fragments.

Fracture is a single target DPS increase and has little to do with survival and Soul Barrier is purely a trap talent. 1) In any content where you struggle to survive, Last Resort will always be more useful than Soul Barrier due the inherent power of cheat death mechanics, and 2) in any content you do NOT struggle to survive, Pain is better spent on Soul Cleave for an actual DPS increase, instead of applying a wet noodle absorb on yourself. Finally Last Resort should be procced deliberately to increase your damage output even further, again, instead of choosing a talent that reduces your DPS output while offering less defensive benefits than Last Resort. This has been discussed to ad nauseum in this thread and on other thread on the DH forums.

If you wanted more survivability you'd spec into Feast of Souls to make your health changes bit smoother, then you'd pick up Soulrending to boost your Metamorphosis. Soulrending affects the Meta you activate yourself, as well as Last Resort and the Artifact trait that periodically activates Meta. Altogether it's a lot of uptime for 50% leech which heals quite nicely. Then Fel Devastation to have an ability to quickly get back to high hp when you or your healers make a mistake, and lastly; Last Resort for the reasons I already pointed out.

Now, alternatively, if you have gear that has no haste, meaning that you have shitty Demon Spikes uptime with the typical raid build, you'd probably spec into Feed the Demon to decrease your Demon Spikes cooldown every time you consume a fragment in which case you'd likely take Fallout instead of Feast of Souls to generate more fragments. Demon Spikes uptime when you're taking hits is pretty much one of the most important factors for raiding DH's imho.

[Flaryon]

Hey guys, I have a whole bunch of trinkets today for which I would greatly appreciate if people could help me decide which are best for surv raiding and which are best for mythic +

840 Chrono Shard (with 845 neck)
840 Momento of Angerboda
840 Nightmare Egg Shell
840 Parjesh's Medallion
845 Gift of Radiance
850 Ember of Nullification
865 Grotesque Statuette
865 Ravaged Seed Pod

Thanks in advance!

[truevalon]

Did our mastery just get completly destroyed overnight? I went to 39% to 20% damage reduction on demon spikes.

[Munkky]

Did our mastery just get completly destroyed overnight? I went to 39% to 20% damage reduction on demon spikes.

Two days ago.

[Meanshield]

Heroic Ursoc hits like a wet noodle, so did Mythic Nythaendra. The thing is, if you play defensively, you do just ok, not as well as a Bear facerolling his keyboard, but just ok. The downside is that when you play defensively, a similarly geared Bear will also dish substantially more damage. Our survivability isn't as bad as people make it sound, it's just the fact that our DPS is so much reliant on using many of our defensive resources offensivelly, that the tradeoffs to playing safe vs dealing ok damage are quite lame (I'm talking about Mythic raiding here, at least in M+ we can go balls to the wall while waiting for a pack to die before we run out of our CDs -> Kite if necessary).

For Mythic progression, Warrior, Druid and Pally all have their niches and are considered god-tier, while Monks, DK's and DH's can make do, but are far from optimal. For anything else than Mythic progression on the current item levels, all tanks are perfectly viable.





Fracture is a single target DPS increase and has little to do with survival and Soul Barrier is purely a trap talent. 1) In any content where you struggle to survive, Last Resort will always be more useful than Soul Barrier due the inherent power of cheat death mechanics, and 2) in any content you do NOT struggle to survive, Pain is better spent on Soul Cleave for an actual DPS increase, instead of applying a wet noodle absorb on yourself. Finally Last Resort should be procced deliberately to increase your damage output even further, again, instead of choosing a talent that reduces your DPS output while offering less defensive benefits than Last Resort. This has been discussed to ad nauseum in this thread and on other thread on the DH forums.

If you wanted more survivability you'd spec into Feast of Souls to make your health changes bit smoother, then you'd pick up Soulrending to boost your Metamorphosis. Soulrending affects the Meta you activate yourself, as well as Last Resort and the Artifact trait that periodically activates Meta. Altogether it's a lot of uptime for 50% leech which heals quite nicely. Then Fel Devastation to have an ability to quickly get back to high hp when you or your healers make a mistake, and lastly; Last Resort for the reasons I already pointed out.

Now, alternatively, if you have gear that has no haste, meaning that you have shitty Demon Spikes uptime with the typical raid build, you'd probably spec into Feed the Demon to decrease your Demon Spikes cooldown every time you consume a fragment in which case you'd likely take Fallout instead of Feast of Souls to generate more fragments. Demon Spikes uptime when you're taking hits is pretty much one of the most important factors for raiding DH's imho.

Ty for the feedback. I can see I gotta change some talents around. The main reason I was using Fracture was to make sure my Soul Barrier got to +7 Fragments everytime which gave a nice 800k+ shield. However it is hard to maintain.

I did use Soul Rending before, however I thought Feed the Demon seemed too weak, as apart from Soul Carver we have 0 guaranteed for Lesser Fragments, other than 'a chance' on Shear & Immo Aura.

[oAllElseFailo]

Am I supposed to be soul cleaving 24/7 in meta form? I'm just confused on where everyone is saying you practically become invulnerable during it. I have soulrending too but i hardly notice some big impact with 50% leech increase, especially when you proc meta and it's up for like 3 seconds.. i still feel like i get obliterated sometimes.

[Neudgae]

Am I supposed to be soul cleaving 24/7 in meta form? I'm just confused on where everyone is saying you practically become invulnerable during it. I have soulrending too but i hardly notice some big impact with 50% leech increase, especially when you proc meta and it's up for like 3 seconds.. i still feel like i get obliterated sometimes.

50% leech +15% charred +fel devastation alone will take me from 1% to 100%, on top of soul carver doing 500k ish damage+popping out 5 souls+1 soul cleave is another 1-100 at least in my experience

[Deleted]

Hey,

how are the stat weights after the patch?
I use simulationcraft for my DH using TMI and always get this:
Haste > Agi > Vers ~= Mastery > AP > Crit > Sta > Wdps > WOHdps

My guild and me are currently HC 5/7 and wanna start mythic next week. My healer are crying rly hard that i get raped some times. :>

Stats:
27% crit
9%haste
18% mastery
13% vers
Would be nice to get some tipps.

[redfella]

Fragments are pretty weak and more of a small rng-bonus.

During meta, you survive better the more dmg you can dish out.