Simcraft Shadow Priest Stat Weight

[arioc]

So I was running some sims for my shadow priest since both the stats they we're using on askmrrobot seemed a little strange.



These were my results, not even the same as the priest guide on this forum, I just wanted to check and confirm if someone has gotten similar results to me or maybe my Simcraft settings are incorrect.

If the image is not showing up: https://gyazo.com/038426dcba82c9ab71922527ec1510c3

[Ailylia]

Yeah I simmed myself yesterday on Beotorch and got a negative value for haste scaling and was really confused. Though I just ran myself locally with the latest build and got more expected values. I think something was just weird with yesterday's simc build.

[Djriff]

You have to understand that if you run stat weights on yourself, you're going to get very different results. Twintop's published stat weights are for several different sets of gear and averaged across all of them. You can do that yourself if you have the time, but it does take awhile.

[Zoopercat]

@arioc if you give me your character name and realm, I'll do some tests for different weights for you.

[Deleted]

Maybe someone can help me. When i run SimCraft, i get really weird results with my Shadow.
What are the inputs you use? Do you add the string priest_fixed_time?

I import normal and patchwork fight 300sec fight 10000 iterations. With that i get this result:

Crit: 1.35
Int: 1.00
Mastery: 0.92
Vers: 0.76
Haste: 025

with priest_fixed_time=0 it jumps to 600sec, where i only fight 300sec ?! (dont know why). Result:

Crit: 0.98
Int: 1.00
Mastery: 0.76
Vers: 0.73
Haste: 1.55

So how to use simcraft right with a Shadowpriest that uses S2M? Never had a problem like that .

My armory link: eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/kelthuzad/Felenna/simple

[Djriff]

Simcraft uses fixed time do prevent weird things like that happening form one iteration to another. StM isn't always perfect, even in a sim and when the priest dies in the simulator and the boss fight keeps going on it lowers the overall damage. That's why you're getting skewed results.

Also the value for haste that you're getting in the first sim is wayyyyy inaccurate. Haste is literally our best stat for a handful of reasons and we have math to back that up.

[arioc]

@arioc if you give me your character name and realm, I'll do some tests for different weights for you.

Ariock - Kazzak EU

- - - Updated - - -

You have to understand that if you run stat weights on yourself, you're going to get very different results. Twintop's published stat weights are for several different sets of gear and averaged across all of them. You can do that yourself if you have the time, but it does take awhile.

Speaking of simcraft, have you done any testing regarding trinkets? I recently acquired both Bough of Corruption and Twisting wind. I haven't really had time to test them out in raids yet but from what it seems like they don't perform as well as Shock Baton does on my mage. Now I don't think I'd be too wrong to assume that Swarming Plaguehive is our BiS trinket, but which one is the second best and so on?

[Alexieel]

Speaking of simcraft, have you done any testing regarding trinkets? I recently acquired both Bough of Corruption and Twisting wind. I haven't really had time to test them out in raids yet but from what it seems like they don't perform as well as Shock Baton does on my mage. Now I don't think I'd be too wrong to assume that Swarming Plaguehive is our BiS trinket, but which one is the second best and so on?

From the Shadow Priest sticky:
Singletarget:
http://i.imgur.com/uAkw5gC.png
Heavy movement singletarget:
http://i.imgur.com/n1SLlu6.png
Two targets:
http://i.imgur.com/nF8fQbD.png
Heavy movement two targets:
http://i.imgur.com/vVNEBDk.png

For Singletarget the Oakhearts Gnarled Root > spiked tongue > twisting winds (care, only if the enemy stays within the AoE) > plaguehive (considering all 880 ilvl)
For 850 Shock is better then twisting winds and plaguehive HC versions, and only a bit worse then the 2 hc trinkets is a 850 Root and a 840 baton.
And sorry for you, but it looks like bough of corruption is one of the worst trinkets for us, even the Mythic version gets beaten by nearly any other trinket.

[arioc]

From the Shadow Priest sticky:
Singletarget:
http://i.imgur.com/uAkw5gC.png
Heavy movement singletarget:
http://i.imgur.com/n1SLlu6.png
Two targets:
http://i.imgur.com/nF8fQbD.png
Heavy movement two targets:
http://i.imgur.com/vVNEBDk.png

For Singletarget the Oakhearts Gnarled Root > spiked tongue > twisting winds (care, only if the enemy stays within the AoE) > plaguehive (considering all 880 ilvl)
For 850 Shock is better then twisting winds and plaguehive HC versions, and only a bit worse then the 2 hc trinkets is a 850 Root and a 840 baton.
And sorry for you, but it looks like bough of corruption is one of the worst trinkets for us, even the Mythic version gets beaten by nearly any other trinket.

Alright cheers for the info, I'm not really surprised about the bough of corruption though its been performing quite badly for me, just have to wait for the shock baton so I can RP an elemental shaman.

[Deleted]

Alright cheers for the info, I'm not really surprised about the bough of corruption though its been performing quite badly for me, just have to wait for the shock baton so I can RP an elemental shaman.

The shock baton will probably do more dmg than ele anyways

[darkxiao]

Yeah I simmed myself yesterday on Beotorch and got a negative value for haste scaling and was really confused. Though I just ran myself locally with the latest build and got more expected values. I think something was just weird with yesterday's simc build.

Did you figure out why you got a negative value? Currently I am also getting a negative value and I have no idea why I am. I've been hearing it is because I have too much haste? But that doesn't make sense considering i'm only sitting at around 31% atm.

[horrified]

its because at that point you need a lot more haste to get a longer stm. You're casttime wont increase enough to keep up with the drain bassically so adding more haste does litteraly nothing, where as crit and mastery will increase your dps if that makes sence. I dunno how much you need after that point though to get it up again. Need to work with it a bit myself as i am in the excact same situation.

[Rumstein]

The first rule of Shadow Priest is DO NOT SIM YOUR STATS. It is fruitless as the simc setup will not work properly for you.

[Djriff]

The first rule of Shadow Priest is DO NOT SIM YOUR STATS. It is fruitless as the simc setup will not work properly for you.

You do understand that's how we got our current stat weights now yeah?

[Kilee25]

Yeah, unfortunately someone has to brave the simc waters. Personally I would prefer if lots of people develop the skill rather than just one person.

[Djriff]

Yeah, unfortunately someone has to brave the simc waters. Personally I would prefer if lots of people develop the skill rather than just one person.

I'm looking into it personally, and I'm noticing some things that a bit off, should be easy enough to adjust the rotation.

[Rumstein]

You do understand that's how we got our current stat weights now yeah?

No... really?

I'm saying most people shouldn't sim their stats, as they will just do it with the completely default simc, and they get confusing results like this post, which they then post everywhere asking why it screwed up. It took Twin a very long time to work out the script to generate effective stats, and the majority are not prepared to take that time to adjust the script (I know I'm not), which is why the answer for the majority is "don't".

[Djriff]

I'm saying most people shouldn't sim their stats, as they will just do it with the completely default simc, and they get confusing results like this post, which they then post everywhere asking why it screwed up. It took Twin a very long time to work out the script to generate effective stats, and the majority are not prepared to take that time to adjust the script (I know I'm not), which is why the answer for the majority is "don't".

I understand that and you understand that, but the majority of people don't. That explanation does a lot more good than just telling people not to.

[Kilee25]

As a programmer myself, there's a part of me that asks why we can't make a default sim give fairly meaningful results. I believe that can be possible. Perhaps it's just incredibly difficult with the current set of talents and how they behave with the base program behavior. Or perhaps it's just not a priority.

I spent 6 months last expac developing a good APL for CoP RoW. The vast majority of that time was overcoming the learning curve, and finding undocumented commands that did what I needed. In general there aren't many resources available for people wanting to do it themselves. And the (as of at least a few months ago) lack of good documentation or any sort of advanced tutorials really makes it slow-going.

Honestly the only really sure way to fix or run reliable sims is to basically download the source code and learn it... But that's imo completely unreasonable... I have been programming for a long time now as a career, and I don't know if I would ever do that much work or get that involved. Even if I had the free time, I'm not really confident how long it would take me to do it.

Based on what I know of some of the problems described with some of the current sims, I think a short term goal might be to try to make the sim exit early if your character dies from StM early. Rather than to keep going and throw erroneous data.

Also I am not sure if it's built in yet but I would like to add some UI controls to have adds spawn at intervals. I think it's possible to inject that in directly, but it isn't obvious or easy to find that documentation...

Meh just couch speculation...

Well anyway I do think the community as a whole would benefit from a consistent attitude when it comes to simc. We had Beotorch at the start of this expac, and the implication was that it would help everyone sim their own characters. People were encouraged to do this. Then when they started doing that and posting their weird results and asking questions, they were told basically they don't know enough to sim their own chars and don't trust their results, don't bother etc... It was depressing irony imo...

I like the romantic idea of people being able to just simply sim themselves again, like we used to be able to. I'm just not sure if the game is ever going to be that simple again. It's been getting very complicated over the past few expacs, and that's making "strait forward" sims hard to do. I don't know what the solution is, but I think having honest and open dialogue about it is at least a good start...

[Rumstein]

I understand that and you understand that, but the majority of people don't. That explanation does a lot more good than just telling people not to.

I guess a big part of it is my frustration with H2P Discord. People keep coming in, don't read the start info, don't read the pins, and just post stat weights with "WHY IS HASTE -VE GUYS".