No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[TyrianFC]

The leveling is over all we have to do now in the outside world is to take a fly path and ¨whistle¨ to do a bunch of WQ..

You're required to have some interaction with the world, even though levelling is over, because you're playing an MMO and it's good for the game. You may not realise this and want to kick and scream (or whine stupidly on the forums), but luckily Blizzard (and many players) know whats best for you - even if you don't realise it yourself - so you'll continue to do this for the foreseeable future.

I love hopping off the flight path and *gasp* actually seeing people on their ground mounts as we all make our way to/from WQ. Its much better than *alt-tab and fly from A directly to B and descend to ground - invalidating everything in between*, and seeing nobody along the way until you magically pop out of the air directly on top of your target, then magically ascend into the sky again and dissappear. Thats why flying dissolves all the potential interaction people have with the world in between liftoff and destination - aka the fly over the sandbox analogy.

[-Joker-]

You know that the first poll is flawed, right? That is one of those kinds you don't even need an Account for and can vote as many times as you want. Since you love statistics, here is some from this very site:
MMO-Champion Statistics
Threads: 1,036,594
Posts: 26,190,727
Members: 509,105
Active Members: 27,013

So i hope you are not trying to tell me that you actually believe that over 10 times more people voted in the the first poll than this board has active members? Besides this board doesn't represent the "average" WoW player so polls on here say nothing about the games community but only about MMO-Cs community and is therefore flawed from the beginning in terms of "being representable for the WoW community". So if you base your assumptions on polls from an environment that habitats a small minority of the more dedicated players, you are not really as smart as i thought.

Only very very very simple minded people believe that Blizz reverted their decision to take out flight forever based on some shitstorm on the forums from a couple of thousands. There HAS TO BE a much more severe consequence they had to face in order to revert a final decision. Did all the people the game lost state it was because of no flight? Most likely not. But it is sure as hell that there have been ENOUGH to have an impact and made them revered their decision in less than two weeks after it leaked. Nobody cares about whiners that flood the forums with tears but keep on playing and paying. Nobody. Not even Blizzard. So people can stop pretending that Blizz is caving in to some forum whiners, they are not. They are caving in to people keeping their money and don't give it to them.

I was only offering examples showing popular opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. As a pro-flier I was on the receiving end of most of those. My point was, not as many people were pissed about the lack of flight as you, and the 7 other pro-fliers in this thread would lead others to believe. In fact, if more people were upset, this thread would have 2k pages already, and not 550+. Also, your opinion starts to lose its credit and merit when you start slinging insults at others who may support Blizz. Sometimes, there is no agenda other than showing what has been right in front of people the entire time. I want flight back, but as Blizz once put it they are looking for positive feedback, not name calling, flaming, and fanaticism. That just fuels them to keep it out longer. So when people like Mafic, Quras, and Rebecca continue to trash talk them, they are prolonging MY ability to get flight back sooner, and that is unacceptable. As for intelligence, I am just getting warmed up. This is just the surface of the logic, patience, and decency to which I am capable, so I would thank you to keep your personal attacks out of this discussion.

[quras]

As a Druid, I am at a bigger disadvantage since my combat form is stashed away while riding my wolf. Personally, I am not bothered by it since that's how it works and Blizz has no interest in making my Stag run at 100%.

and yet ground mount travel =/= game play no matter how you slice it.

There's already been a quote or two from Blizz about why they are not re-introducing the anti-flight surface-to-air gimmicks. No need to get wrapped up in that circuitous argument again.

One cannot stop blizzard form being short sighted and lazy. Sure, it's their reasoning and it's flawed but it's theirs. They simply don't want to put in the time or quality design to make things work till well past it's lifecycle as far as content goes. One can only hope that like WoD, enough people pressure them to do different.

Says you. Maybe they play because travel is not that big a deal. Previous polling in multiple threads showed how the majority was unaffected by the lack of flight.

Says anyone. Travel in a game is a big deal. It's a big deal in wow. Travel in wow has always evloved for the better. Getting mounts faster and faster. Getting summons stones and and quicker hearthstones. Getting flying at max level. Getting more and more teleports.

It should never have back-stepped and de-evolved to a no flying state. You cannot be so blind as to think travel isn't important. When you spend more time getting to a quest than it does to complete it. Something is massively wrong. That is currently wow in many cases.

Again, just in case you didn't understand: Ambivalence isn't acceptance. Playing wow isn't acceptance of no flying the way blizzard has done it if they wanted to play wow. Dealing with it isn't acceptance. Doesn't mean it ruins other parts of the game for them. It also doesn't mean their happy with it either as they tolerate it.

That's not a real thing. That's just your perception. Being max level doesn't mean the world goes away.

Thats not just perception. Thats truth. There are many parts of the world a max level player has out leveled and grown beyond the need for.

Those useless mobs around they world you needed level up. Not really needed at max level. Time to skip that time waster at max level. Time to get the gamers out of the rat maze. Get gamers to the more interesting parts of the game and to the reason (or quest) that got them out in the world to start with. At max level, the travel doesn't need to be the time wasting mechanic. Better/longer designed quests does.

The world doesn't have to go away but there are many parts of it that no longer serve a max level gamers other than to waste their time. Be it another wow rat maze designed world or useless mobs. Get the gamers to where they want to go sooner. It's doesn't have to be teleports (though I don't have a problem with that) but flying at max level allows so many other options. Allowing gamers to stop and do thing they might not otherwise. As flying gets gamers from "A" to "Z". They get to stop at any point from "B" to "Y" and do it by choice. Thats a good thing wow used to have and has gotten away from.

[Myah]

Not being able to fly makes NOT want to play. I hate having to go around long ways to get to a point. I hate being dismounted cause a mob dazed me. It's unnecessary.

[Mafic]

Let me flat out say it. The level scaling of NPCs has been a failure and another failure of Blizzard to create a savage ground and pound world just like WoD. While at the same time denying the vast benefits of enabling flying at level cap.

When Ion Hazzikostas confirmed in an interview last month that they NPC's would not scale along with gear levels that was the nail in the coffin of "world content" being relevant beyond the first month of Legion. Truthfully, that makes sense as ion Hazzikostas and WoW devs have traditionally emphasized 99% of the content at endgame to be in instanced content. This applies to PVP as well with the repeated tower nerfs and trying to make instanced PVP more appealing as a result through indirect and direct means

Anytime a streamer like Swifty organizes mass world events it causes server problems for Blizzard and they take swift action to remedy it or punish players from doing that. From Blizz point of view if they can funnel players into instanced content they can have stable servers with minimal costs.

No flying does exactly what it meant to do as we predicted before WoD alpha was launched...it forces more players into instanced content when world travel becomes collective punishment.

[TyrianFC]

Let me flat out say it. The level scaling of NPCs has been a failure and another failure of Blizzard to create a savage ground and pound world just like WoD. While at the same time denying the vast benefits of enabling flying at level cap.

I'm glad you felt the misguided urge to 'say it', because you're flat out wrong and it shows (again) just how clueless you are on most 'issues' in the game.

The level scaling of npc's has been a fantastic feature, and gives the whole (legion) world max level relevance. Its been such a success that they'll no doubt be implementing this again in future expansions - and i'm appreciative of it.

So when people like Mafic, Quras, and Rebecca continue to trash talk them,

These are the three arch-trolls desperately keeping to the thread alive, though Mafic is the prime offender. Without them, it'd fade into irrelevant and obscurity - because nobody else cares about whether we can fly at the moment - they're too busy enjoying content.

[Ordinator]

This thread is probably ready to be closed. The flying thread at the very least has provided entertaining discussion, but has now devolved into primarily a soapbox for Mafic to spread misinformation, lies, and sensationalism all while not even playing the game. It shouldn't be tolerated or allowed any longer.

[Katchii]

Your opinion is not fact, as far as I know the wast majority of players like it.

I love it and hate it at the same time. I love that it makes the entire Broken Isles relevant even at max level, which just keeps the world alive, but I don't like the fact that 10 levels and 100+ item levels later, the enemies I was killing in Azsuna are now almost as annoying to kill at 110 as they were at 100, and having to worry about aggro as I run through a zone I cleared on day 1 of the expansion is just weird.

Overall I think it's a much bigger pro than a con, adding a level of depth to the Broken Isles that wasn't there before, but it does feel strange compared to the rest of the world.

[Dormie]

Not being able to fly makes NOT want to play. I hate having to go around long ways to get to a point. I hate being dismounted cause a mob dazed me. It's unnecessary.

Then stop trying to run through them all.

[-Joker-]

and yet ground mount travel =/= game play no matter how you slice it.

One cannot stop blizzard form being short sighted and lazy. Sure, it's their reasoning and it's flawed but it's theirs. They simply don't want to put in the time or quality design to make things work till well past it's lifecycle as far as content goes. One can only hope that like WoD, enough people pressure them to do different.

Says anyone. Travel in a game is a big deal. It's a big deal in wow. Travel in wow has always evloved for the better. Getting mounts faster and faster. Getting summons stones and and quicker hearthstones. Getting flying at max level. Getting more and more teleports.

It should never have back-stepped and de-evolved to a no flying state. You cannot be so blind as to think travel isn't important. When you spend more time getting to a quest than it does to complete it. Something is massively wrong. That is currently wow in many cases.

Again, just in case you didn't understand: Ambivalence isn't acceptance. Playing wow isn't acceptance of no flying the way blizzard has done it if they wanted to play wow. Dealing with it isn't acceptance. Doesn't mean it ruins other parts of the game for them. It also doesn't mean their happy with it either as they tolerate it.

Well then. Neither ground nor flying mounts are content and can safely be removed to accommodate game play. At this point, it seems travel is just hindering the actual content, so WoW should be a foot-based adventure game. And in case you didn't understand: Blizz doesn't care, and most of us are not bothered by the lack of flight. So, while you continue circuitous arguments that will continue to be ignored by Blizz, I am going to mount up and ride off to my next adventure. As someone who loves flight and can't wait for its return, I won't let its absence affect my time on Azeroth.

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This thread is probably ready to be closed. The flying thread at the very least has provided entertaining discussion, but has now devolved into primarily a soapbox for Mafic to spread misinformation, lies, and sensationalism all while not even playing the game. It shouldn't be tolerated or allowed any longer.

Quras is certainly doing his part. Seems as though the focus is just to over dramatize what is actually happening in the game and lead the 4 other people viewing the thread to believe the sky is falling.

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To much logic and data to be useful in what is merely an emotional debate. Remember to people in this thread any data that works against their opinion is false, made up, or screwed and whatever data they can provide, if any, is correct. Anyone that quits the game it's only because of flying. Anyone that didn't come back to the game, again, only because of flying. If you disagree or say anything else then agree than you some "anti flying" person or something.

No flying now is fine. When they add it in it will be fine. When they take it in the next expansion again it will be fine and when it comes back I that next expansion again it will be fine. But sensible opinions such as this are very dangerous to the mob. Expect attacks as I do for this post. I recommend just laughing. Because fuck... it's just kinda funny.

It would appear that rational opinions and pro-flight points of view are not welcome unless they are raining down the drama related to the lack of flight. I love flight and would fly everywhere in Legion if I could. That said, I am a patient person and can happily wait until flight is unlocked (likely in 7.1 or 7.2, just my opinion).

- - - Updated - - -

Let me flat out say it. The level scaling of NPCs has been a failure and another failure of Blizzard to create a savage ground and pound world just like WoD. While at the same time denying the vast benefits of enabling flying at level cap.

When Ion Hazzikostas confirmed in an interview last month that they NPC's would not scale along with gear levels that was the nail in the coffin of "world content" being relevant beyond the first month of Legion. Truthfully, that makes sense as ion Hazzikostas and WoW devs have traditionally emphasized 99% of the content at endgame to be in instanced content. This applies to PVP as well with the repeated tower nerfs and trying to make instanced PVP more appealing as a result through indirect and direct means

Anytime a streamer like Swifty organizes mass world events it causes server problems for Blizzard and they take swift action to remedy it or punish players from doing that. From Blizz point of view if they can funnel players into instanced content they can have stable servers with minimal costs.

No flying does exactly what it meant to do as we predicted before WoD alpha was launched...it forces more players into instanced content when world travel becomes collective punishment.

It is biased and hated filled comments like this that are not taken seriously by this developer, or any other for that matter. We knew there would be no immediate flight in Legion, just like Draenor. The difference now is, we know it is coming, and not just maybe/possibly/potentially out for good. A lot of people we upset last time since there was no clue if Draenor would even get flight. This is not the case with Legion. But let's see how well your past predictions have worked out:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post25909390
Alex Afriasabi will probably be the first to receive his pink slip by next year IMO.

To my knowledge, he is still employed by Blizz, doing the same job, and with a bigger design team working for him this time. Guess they won't be taking your advice about flight this time either.

[Konteil]

holy crap i cant believe this post is still growing lol

[-Joker-]

holy crap i cant believe this post is still growing lol

Only because the same 4 pro-fliers keep offering the same argument. Lack of immediate flight with Legion apparently has a handful of people unsubbed and upset.

[Mafic]

Not being able to fly makes NOT want to play. I hate having to go around long ways to get to a point. I hate being dismounted cause a mob dazed me. It's unnecessary.

And this is the crux of the matter for many players. The alternative is that you play the instanced content that Blizzard released recently regarding rated PVP or raiding, but how much lasting value will that have in the next few months? Compare that lasting value with having access to using a flying mount to work on profession gathering, arrchaeology, fishing, world dailies, etc and even leveling alts? It is clear as day to me which has greater replay value, and also adds a level of moderation for a player to engage in the world as their choosing and discretion. Player choice is paramount in a MMORPG in my opinion and that degree of freedom that flying adds is almost incalculable.

But for flying to reasonably come back for Legion expansion the testing has to commence early 2017 or else there is a chance that the introduction of flight may be pushed back beyond the mid expansion mark. I do not believe flying something so easy to test and account for when talking about world geometry and in a continuous world spanning multiple zones. it requires diligent effort, time, and resources to make it happens and to ensure players have the smoothest experience once on the live client.

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Your opinion is not fact, as far as I know the wast majority of players like it.

If the vast majority of the players at end cap have moved onto instanced content and are increasingly ignoring world content as time goes one then the design has failed by default.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Only because the same 4 pro-fliers keep offering the same argument. Lack of immediate flight with Legion apparently has a handful of people unsubbed and upset.

I have no doubts they have a decent number. But with a game like WoW just about any reason one can think of as a decent number of people that quit over it. The only real reason I would say is the cause of "mass exodus" is content droughts / terrible content like garrisons. But the argument itself that is just a continuous circle jerk of forms? Without a doubt just a handful of people. Pretty provable if you point directly to these forums for sure (and we will hear these forums don't matter but.. why are they here circle jerking them again?). Although I consider them less pro-fliers and more just people that are pro-bitching. I only say this because I have quit a good number of things in my day, and yes, often at first I bitch and moan but usually after a week or two its over. The quit has set in and the emotion has been felt. Then yeah I have moved on. This is for major things like jobs, school, relationships and not a video game. Granted I can accept a lot of people likely have a deep relationship with this game due to its running time, and because of that I can see maybe it leading to a major thing to, again, many people. But even if this is the case I find it insanely odd that by this point it just hasn't reached the "gotten over it" phase. Which kind of tells me again that it is more just about loving to bitch and less about the subject at hand. The subject is merely the tool used to allow the bitching to endlessly circle jerk around the room.

[Whiteboard]

It would appear that rational opinions and pro-flight points of view are not welcome unless they are raining down the drama related to the lack of flight. I love flight and would fly everywhere in Legion if I could. That said, I am a patient person and can happily wait until flight is unlocked (likely in 7.1 or 7.2, just my opinion).

I don't think 7.1, there hasn't been even a whiff of Pathfinder 2 yet.

[Ordinator]

If the vast majority of the players at end cap have moved onto instanced content and are increasingly ignoring world content as time goes one then the design has failed by default.

Can we once and for all just acknowledge the fact that nobody knows what the fuck the "vast majority" of players are doing or feeling.

[Mafic]

I don't think 7.1, there hasn't been even a whiff of Pathfinder 2 yet.

7.1 has been on the PTR for a while now and they are moving towards the bug fixing phase with balance changes decreasing as time goes one. For flying to be tested properly it requires at minimum to be added at the start of the PTR process so players can provide feedback. Feedback from players is important for flying bugs or holes in the geometry that can be game breaking if they make it to the live client. Client testing of flying on internal Blizzard servers is possible, but as WoD showed you run into problems when flying isn't tested over a good amount of time and is not transparently open to the public.

And like you have pointed out part 2 will require testing or it is already in game and must be activated by Blizz. But again that requires testing as well on Blizzard's end even if it is a flip of a switch as WoD's pathfinder achievement showed.

It is wishful thinking to believe that flying will be with 7.1, but as I have pointed out before a lot of players do not know about the situation surrounding flying in Legion or even what went down in WoD. So, these players are increasingly going to be the players that will have to coalesce around the fact that flying returns when the players demand it. It is as simple as that, because anytime someone tells you that you as a consumer do not have power or say in a matter are simply choosing to straddle the fence.

What happened when players straddle the fence of apathy and let flying issue not be addressed transparently, and honestly like happened in WoD? At least in Legion there is a part 1 patchfinder, but when the rest is still a mystery and patch 7.1 approaches that will increase tension among the players Especially true for players that do not know about the mid expansion guestimate on Blizzard's part for flying to possibly be back.

[stomination]

Then stop trying to run through them all.

Or they can get a sky golem mount and the items that stop mobs from disorienting them. ppl just lazy.

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Can we once and for all just acknowledge the fact that nobody knows what the fuck the "vast majority" of players are doing or feeling.

Well either they are playing...or they are not players.

[TyrianFC]

This thread has degenerated into a last+ditch soapbox for three trolls to try and convice everyone else the sky is falling. That is all.

[-Joker-]

For flying to be tested properly it requires at minimum to be added at the start of the PTR process so players can provide feedback.

Do you just make this crap up as you go along?

Blizz: "Hey players, does flight work?"
Players: "Yeah"
Blizz: "Thanks, we never could have done it without you."

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Well either they are playing...or they are not players.

So much of THIS. If you are not playing, you are not a player. If you are not a player, you have no useful feedback. Flight will be unlocked automatically when they are ready, and no, it does not require "testing". If flight paths, gliders, and whistles are working, it means changing the 0 to a 1 under <Player can fly = True>. Pretty simple. No grandiose expectations like Mafic or Quras would like others to believe.