Hardcore Raider. Close to giving up

[xazrael]

Hey guys,
WARNING: THIS IS A BITCHING POST, IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR COMPLAINING, PLEASE LEAVE.

I am a member of a decently hardcore raiding guild. We don't raid too much, but we are expected to pull high dps (280k minimum on Mythic Ursoc).
Now, almost all of my friends in this guild, are artifact level 25+, Ilvl 870+, and almost all have legendarys.
I am sitting at artifact level 22, 865 Ilvl, and the stupid PVP legendary ring.
I am now starting to get sat on progression, because I am one of our lowest dps.

Past expansions, I would put all of my time into raiding, and doing raid strats. I rarely, if ever farmed mats, farmed world drops, or farmed heroic dungeons. However, I was consistently one of the better raiders in the West. (MOP and WOD, I had top 100 parses on most fights).
I have put the same amount of time into this expansion, however I am falling terribly short. And here are the reasons (and thus, the things wrong with this expansion)

1. RNGendarys. At this point, most hardcore raiders have gotten a legendary. However, whether you have gotten the best or the worst, severely impacts you. I got pretty much the worst. The ring has bad itemization for my class, and basically can't proc in raids. Another player on my server, got the boots. It is known that I am a better player than him (my guild sat him over me in WoD, and he left the guild). Just because he has the boots, he now parses higher than me, with equal Ilvl. Nothing I can do about it, except pray for RNG on my next legendary. Next, my raid leader, has gotten 4 Legendarys! 4!? Like how the actual fu......
And that doesn't help my case when he performs the same role as me (ranged dps)

2. Grindifact Power. In all past expansions, what could you do outside of raids to help you progress. Farm raid mats? Okay sure. Farm heroics for VP? No problem. Did dailies give you pretty much anything except some cosmetic items and maybe access to an enchant? No.
However, now outside of raids, you can improve your dps doing ANYTHING. WOOO sounds awesome right?! Maybe if it had a cap.
AP can be farmed infinitely, and depending on the class, can increase your dps by 2-5k each trait.
Just because I don't spend 10 hours a day on wow outside of raids, I am behind a potential 20-30k DPS. WTF.

3. RNGforged. I was playing in MoP when they introduced Thunderforged, and Warforged. I thought at the time, it was a decent idea. It did make us want to go back and kill bosses more often just to get a chance for a higher ilvl or a socket. Even in WoD it was fine.
But then someone thought, lets make all gear able to become Warforged, and not put a cap on it. Wouldn't it be great if you were questing, and the 835 trinket you wanted, ended up dropping as a 885? Sure, but even if that happens, raid stuff will be better right? Right?
No.
Many classes, a titanforge proc from a stat trinket, or trinket from a mythic dungeon, will be better than ANYTHING available in raid (same with relics).
This is literally the first time, I have ever seen hardcore guilds 7/7 mythic, and their raiders are using non raid gear. (3+ pieces non raid).
If it was just Mythic + gear, I wouldn't be complaining.

4. Mythic infinity. Now this one is less of a problem in my eyes, but definitely has its issues. I love the idea of Mythic +. Being able to make dungeons relevant during raids has always been a problem for blizzard. I like the affix's. I like the gear reward. Hell, I am even fine with the weekly chest reward being better than mythic raid gear (+10 gives you an 885). However, utilizing xrealm, and having a good friendbase, allows you to do an infinite amount.
You should be limited to just 1 groups keystones, or maybe disable xrealm for mythic +, or have a weekly limit (8 mythic + limit or something like that).
Most of my guild does 10+ mythic +s. I manage to usually get 5 done. (1 +10 minimum for the weekly)

I understand, this forum houses very few hardcore raiders. So maybe this falls on deaf ears. But all of this is definitely a problem for any hardcore raider, that still managed to have a life. Blizzard effectively is bridging the gap even further from casual to hardcore. In most hardcore guilds now, I guess I would be casual, even though I spend 20-30 hours a week on WoW.

Don't respond with "they are dumb for expecting that much", or "rewarding someone for playing more?! NO WAI!!".
This is a complaint post, and I am just seeing if other raiders are feeling the same way.

[willtron]

You said it was a bitching post at the start but it wasn't a complaint pot at the end. Well, what is it?

[Firminator]

Hey guys,
[B]WARNING: *abridged*.

As someone whom raided "semi-hardcore" in the past (way back in cata) I can understand where you are coming from. Not performing where you think you should perform because of time put into the game definitely stinks. Unfortunately, this game has been "who plays the most wins" for a while now. It isnt a complaint, its the truth. When you look at each tier of players, casual/semi/hardcore/bleeding edge, the main difference is how much time put into the game. There are absolutely skill differences within the categories, dont get me wrong, but the main difference between the tiers is time played.

With the current way the expansion works, you either dont have the time or dont want to put it in. Which can feel really crappy, but its the way things have turned out. Only thing you can do is enjoy what you enjoy and stop doing the things that you dont enjoy. If WoW no longer gives you enjoyment, then find another hobby that does. If just hardcore raiding is specifically the problem, there are plenty of other things you can do in WoW.

[Socialhealer]

basically you're a hardcore raider but you don't have the time.

pretty obvious what the problem is - you, put in the time or step down the ranks in guilds.

[Ellianar]

Tbh you don't deserve a raiding spot in a hardcore raiding guild if you only have 22 AP at this point. That's beyond laziness.

[Soisoisoi]

I'ma stop you there OP. You have 22 Artifact traits and you're hardcore? I haven't done world quests or mythics properly for nearly 2 weeks and we're the same Artifact trait level. [I'm a Sub Rogue and PvP, our traits literally fuck us over, so no point getting them]

Legendaries are random and broken. I'm sure you already know this, no point even talking about it.

You stated yourself you do far less Mythic+ than the rest of your guild, again putting you behind in everything (gear, AP, chances at legendary items, etc.)

Obviously we haven't seen anything else about you as a player, but with that attitude I can only assume there is room to improve elsewhere as you're clearly slacking relative to the rest of your guild, so that is all on you. Feel free to provide logs if you need help with upping your DPS, I'm sure people here will help you.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I find it very hard to believe that you are a hardcore raider. They tend to not whine and just get on with whatever needs to be done.

[Deleted]

There's 2 potential elements at play here though.

The game changing, which it has done, inevitably for different people this will be better or worse.

Secondly, your guild changing as a result of the game changing.

In times gone by with the lack of anything extra to do for gearing outside of raids your guild might have existed in a very different means, but if the majority have the time to take advantage of all the new avenues of progression down the path of gear then the set-up within the guild has changed as well.

Hardcore comes with a certain expectation though, that you do all that you can whenever you can in order to be ready, hardcore in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean successfully getting world firsts, or even world 100. The hardcore mindset now has to encapsulate more than it has for a while, and a hardcore WoD player isn't the same checklist to be a hardcore Legion player.

Even though the change feels quite sudden its been over a year in the planning, its only the realisation that's sudden.

It's all definitions though, I consider myself a very much casual player, even though I play probably around to a similar amount to what you say you do. I just think the biggest source of enjoyment in WoW comes from finding a guild that aligns more closely with what your current aim to do is.

[Gsara]

If youre in a hardcore raid guild, how did you not know to farm the shit out of m+ when they came out? Or to do every single ap quest on the map every time they are up?
From what Ive been told by several people that are in hardcore guilds, they were required to run m+ and farm ap.

[Deleted]

I think its important to ask yourself what you are there for.
Guild ranks?
Friends?
Progression raiding only?

Im assuming you could quite easily get a starting spot in another guild so if its progression raiding you are after that would be an easy fix. Emerald Nightmare isnt even a full tier you still have Nighthold to come. Yes you might be benched now but in the coming months with ToV and NH you should be on a more even playing field. People are expected to have 2 legendaries and eventually artifact weapon routes should balance.

As a raid leader of a world 141 guild currently it does suck having to sit people who you know could do just fine but you said it yourself you are a "Hardcore Raider" and it just comes with the territory getting benched for better classes/players. Cant expect the raid leader to take people who have put in less effort than the rest. I do my utmost best to rotate my roster fairly so they all get a chance but there are a couple of players who have just fallen behind and for EN progression are useless. There is still farm time between raids for them to catch up.

1 thing i was worried about with this expac is the time commitment and how it would really define your environment. People who work or have busy Uni schedules would struggle and not keep up with the rest.

My advice to you is to tough it out. Tell your officers/RL how you are feeling and discuss if you actually have the time to be competitive in that guild.

GL I hope it works out well for you

[Heladys]

Maybe you aren't as hardcore as you think? There's nothing wrong with that, it's just a moment of clarity thing.

[Anastacy]

I'm having difficulty understanding just how you came about defining yourself as "hardcore".

[Deleted]

You're not hardcore at all.

You're the reason WoD sucked.

Cya.

[Deleted]

22 Alvl hardcore? I am on 23 Alvl on my alt that barely does the daily chest and one mythic+2/week for the chest.

[Deleted]

You could've just summed up this thread by posting "My RNG sucks so I'll blame that on my DPS instead of my inability to play well".

280k is nowhere near good DPS especially for Ursoc
Legendaries don't make you a good player
Titanforge shit doesn't mean a thing if you can't play properly
Your AP is terrible, I have 3 characters with more AP on all of them than you do and I work 8-6 Mon to Friday.

[Marhault]

The Legendaries, while yes if you get a strong DPS one will put you over, won't really stop you from hitting 280k dps on M Ursoc. Since you're talking boots, I'm going to assume hunter here so I apologize if I'm wrong. Last week our GL did 323k dps on M Ursoc without the boots at 866 ilvl. It may be an adjustment to the play style. Do you have logs that someone could help with there?

I'm aware that artifact power would also be a factor and he was at 26 or 27 at this point so that would be a bit of a factor but it's over 40k dps difference minimum if you are hitting under 280k dps.

[Goldielocks]

You're not hardcore at all.

You're the reason WoD sucked.

Cya.

And you're the reason MoP offered an LFR endgame. Arguably worse.

[cFortyfive]

I find it very hard to believe that you are a hardcore raider. They tend to not whine and just get on with whatever needs to be done.

sure they are all machines running on elitism

[Herbert]

OP sounds like he thinks he's a hardcore raider when he is clearly a casual.

[Gaucho-]

Not to sound really harsh, but artifact level 22 is what my alt character has. And he only does the WQ chest and daily heroics, combined being abused for heroic split runs.

Everything else: /agree.