Let's talk about Il'gynoth and his whispers (various spoilers)

[FlemmMinis]

Not sure if this was posted but I got a new one today.

Got it today aswell for the first time. Thinking of Rings.... calling it right now. Khadgar is the final boss of the expansion.

[Deleted]

Xal say's Illgynoth is pretty much a growth of N'zoth or something from him in that effect make's sense why you get the claw of N'zoth skin from it.

[spiritsurge]

I have actually been playing a bit on my Shadow Priest and I've noticed some interesting whispers by Xal'atath.

When facing Il'gynoth: "It appears the prison of N'zoth is not as strong as it once was. What you see is a tiny growth of the behemoth that may yet consume your world."
When in Suramar: "This city of elves pales in comparison to the sleeping city..."

This got me really curious, is it possible Blizzard will implement Ny'alotha as a giant underwater zone as big as Suramar? Is that where we're going to have a new quest hub/battle front to fight with N'zoth?

I MUST KNOW!

About that, i'm actually interested in the theory that Ny'alotha is the sunken naga city of Nazjatar. I'll link the wowpedia so you can read some stuff about it http://wow.gamepedia.com/Ny%27alotha

[Deleted]

I've been thinking aswell, what if what happend in ulduar with king magni bronzebeard telling that azeroth spoke to him, is in fact n'zoth talking to magni telling him the pillars is the solujtion, and convincing him that they would be the key to close the portal, however they would prob just completly unlock the n'zoth prison in the process once acticated, when therre could possible had been a other way to seal the portal?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

This is pretty huge..

At face value you assume it's just a powerful crater but considering the theories....why would *Light's Heart* make a crater like that.

[Traveler Voltin]

lets create a bomb of light and shove it down N'zoth's throat.

[Shiftyfish]

I personally like the idea of this referring to Elisande, since she dies twice during her raid encounter.

Not 100% on this, but didn't Jaina get mortally wounded twice? Once with Aegwyn and again in Warcrimes? It's a stretch to say she died twice though....

See I was thinking Jaina possibly as well, but the two "deaths" I was thinking of were 1 - narrowly ducking out of the mana bomb and 2 - getting shot in war crimes

[Deleted]

you ppl know that after you finish xavius as a shadowpriest there is a flower in a cave you can click, wich shows that nzoth will come.

https://puu.sh/rnYeC/03b82d69be.jpg

[Deleted]

Going along with the theories concerning Light's Heart and its potentially malicious origins. I wonder how much thought Blizzard put into the names of the characters? Its just "Xe'ra", in my mind at least, falls within similar circles as other known Old God/Void related names. Most notably Xal'atath and Xal'atoh.

[Deleted]

See I was thinking Jaina possibly as well, but the two "deaths" I was thinking of were 1 - narrowly ducking out of the mana bomb and 2 - getting shot in war crimes

Not sure if this has been said before, but I believe that the two deaths are Azeroth (great sundering and shattering) and that messing with the nightwell and the pillars of creation somehow will result in a third shattering, or, if you will, death, which will release the old gods.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not sure if this has been said before, but I believe that the two deaths are Azeroth (great sundering and shattering) and that messing with the nightwell and the pillars of creation somehow will result in a third shattering, or, if you will, death, which will release the old gods.

That's also possible but it's also very metaphorical. I just don't see the world soul dying. It might cause the Old Gods and or it's forces to gain strength and that will be our next story arc. Or so I think anyways, hard to tell at this point.

[Shiftyfish]

That's also possible but it's also very metaphorical. I just don't see the world soul dying. It might cause the Old Gods and or it's forces to gain strength and that will be our next story arc. Or so I think anyways, hard to tell at this point.

I would think the death of the world soul would actually be a massive setback to the old gods. their entire purpose was to come here to corrupt the world soul for their own. it's loss would mean their mission has also failed

[Kirbstomp]

I copy/pasted these whispers from wow.gamepedia.com

Intro

Your coming was foretold in the rings. The long circle is nearly complete.
Come, little ones, savor your fear as we feast upon it!

Random

Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator.
To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars.
The king of diamonds has been made a pawn.
The lord of ravens will turn the key.
The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you.
Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it.
Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path.
At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming.


......

Time to wax philosophical for me.

So I want to reques that we suspend some beliefs momentarily for my post. I want you to shut out everything that you have previously assumed or been outright told as fact until the evidence speaks for itself.

so initial presumptions on my part:
1. The Titans are not omnibenevolent - They did go around shaping worlds they had found to nurture the Titan spirit within so that it may ... .hatch?..... and they wiped out all of the "evil" or discord in the worlds before they commenced. I ask, what is life without discord? is discord not the natural way things grow? Thus, destroying a natural part of life is not benevolent.
2. The Light and the Void existed before anything else, when they clashed (discord) thus all things were created. Both the Light and the Void are able to manifest within our physical realm.
3. The Void was jealous of the Light and the Titans. We are never told why though. so, why? is it because they could not as easily interact with the physical like the Light can? when a Void Lord manifests it requires massive continuous consumption of the physical realm (matter) to sustain its presence. This does not occue for Light.
4. The only information any being truely has about the Old Gods and the Void Lords came from Sargeras who was told these things by the Nathrazeim. Nathrazeim, AFAIK, are decievers and demons. Our perception of them (VL and OG) comes from what Sargeras was told by this one Nathrazeim.
5. OG comes from the VL, as we are told. The Twisting Nether is where demons originated and is the overlap area between the Light and the Void (where the clash happened).
6. Flesh is a native state to OG and stone/metal is native to Titans. During the era of the Black Empire I can only find that most things were made of flesh (Klaxxi/bugs aside for a chitin argument, but still not stone/metal make-up). According to Wowpedia "However Yogg-Saron's plan had unintended consequences, it gave rise to mortal qualities of necessity: courage, resolve, and heroism." taken from Curse of Flesh page. Was it unintended? Are these "human" elements only derived from flesh? Would, then, these traits have been seen, albeit in a slightly different form, when the Black Empire was waging its wars?

I think that should do for those. Now, my interpretations for the quotes:

"Your coming was foretold in the rings. The long circle is nearly complete." - The only rings that are of note in the mythos is the Rings or Norgannon which hold VAST amounts of knowledge from the Titans about Azeroth and her past. The long circle, I believe, is merely the cycle of life and events. "Dark" ruled for awhile - seemingly no different than today - and "Light" has had its turn. Now, "Dark" may be able to wrestle the hold away.

"Flesh is his gift. He is your true creator." - Creator here is funky. As we all know, or should, WoW pulls from just about every resource it can from our RL examples of mythos including our own ancient times. In those times a "Creator" was actually a "Shaper" much like the Titans (of WoW) did not "Create" anything, they "Shaped". As pointed in the presumption, we would not be here fighting if it weren't for the CoF which strives us to perseverance. Thus, in the OG eyes we are not "Created" by the Titans, we are a by product which was truly shaped and fashioned by an OG.

"To find him, drown yourself in the circle of stars." - "Him" is too vague to even think about. We don't even have a "Him" to care about in this way correct? Unless the developers are trying to give us a way to see something in-game this quote is fairly useless and pointless. I do speculate, though, that drowning is not literal and the circle of stars is not either. Stars (in RL) used to mean travelers in ancient times - Titans are the Travelers in WoW and Sargeras was removed from them and drowned/snuffed out by them.

"The king of diamonds has been made a pawn." - I think we all agree about Magni and I think I agree to it - but not that he is a pawn of the OGs directly - I might touch on this lower in the post.

"The lord of ravens will turn the key." - Most have, imo, missed that this line is sigular while the Pillars reference is plural. This key could be less physical and does not have to hold intent. As others have pointed out, what if locking out Sargeras opens the way for N'Zoth. It doesn't really matter who that person is. IRL ravens are messangers and harbingers, so he could just be saying something cryptically akin to this.

"The boy-king serves at the master's table. Three lies will he offer you." - I like, as one user here pointed out, The Lich King theory here. I am not sure what Bolvar may do for or to us soon but visiting him was unnerving. He deffinately seems changed (unless he was already changed before dawning the helm). I also have a side theory about this since the implication is that this person is under the rule (very potentially knowingly). Galakrond was the father of all dragons and the like. For unknown reasons he began consuming his kind and not eating anything else. These consumed were reborn as undead dragons. This is the first documented scourge-like instance. OGs could have been responsible for this and could have corrupted the original Ner'Zuhl LK when he was imprisoned onto Azeroth - which could have corrupted all future LK when they merged.

"Her heart is a crater, and we have filled it." - Ok, so this one I might go pretty far out on. So the OGs, they were here way before anything else that we know of. They landed and got to work burrowing. They burrowed so far and their influenced stretched so wide that wars populated the face of the planet (like today!) and they were practically myths in that time. When the Titans arrived and ripped out Y'Shaarj the wound was too deep. They were already (and for how long) deep into the planet and "corrupting" it. So, that is my point. What if it wasn't corruption. What if what was happening on the surface - strife, love, pain, flesh, courage, strength, war and peace, etc - was exactly what the Titan Soul wanted and/or needed according to its dream/nightmare that they were reading? The Titans show up, judge immediately and do ..... what? wage war? on an already war torn planet? to do what? replace the fluid feeling inhabitants with stone and metalic robots? Her heart then became barren and a wasteland like in a crater, she was lonely. So the OGs did what they do best, they "corrupted" the stone and essentially turned things right back to where they were with ...... slightly less tentacles?

"Five keys to open our way. Five torches to light our path." - I think we all agree here.

"At the hour of her third death, she will usher in our coming." - I don't think this one is all that important. Whoever "She" is could be inconsequential and the meaning of "Death" can be rather ambiguous, especially when talking about "Death" in WoW. I think this one is like the "Lord of Ravens", it doesn't even matter who she is - someone is going to start the next cycle in the machine, they always do.

What do you think?

[Deleted]

I was cheking something on wowpedia and found that Jaina died in War Crimes then was resurrected by Chi-Ji. Does this death + End Time dungeon where we kill Jaina from alternate future make her fit into "her third death" whisper?

[steelballfc]

I was cheking something on wowpedia and found that Jaina died in War Crimes then was resurrected by Chi-Ji. Does this death + End Time dungeon where we kill Jaina from alternate future make her fit into "her third death" whisper?

she was heavily injured and not only chi-ji healed her, but aundin, thrall and agraa as well

[Deleted]

I was cheking something on wowpedia and found that Jaina died in War Crimes then was resurrected by Chi-Ji. Does this death + End Time dungeon where we kill Jaina from alternate future make her fit into "her third death" whisper?

She almost died, and half of the court room had to heal her.

Think of how how Pikachu and the other Pokemon revived Ash when he "died" in Mewtwo Strikes Back.

[Deleted]

Thanks guys, Kalec' page on wowpedia states that she died. Her own, however, does not. So you're right.

[Magnagarde]

What makes you think that what Il'gynoth whispers is actually true? It doesn't have to be. There is no point in revealing what you and your boss are up to after having planned it for thousands of years.

It makes more sense to actually decieve whoever you come across. Il'gynoth could simply be trying to make the adventuers doubt the biggest heroes and future hopes of Azeroth, such as Khadgar and Anduin.

[dev'olution]

What makes you think that what Il'gynoth whispers is actually true? It doesn't have to be. There is no point in revealing what you and your boss are up to after having planned it for thousands of years.

It makes more sense to actually decieve whoever you come across. Il'gynoth could simply be trying to make the adventuers doubt the biggest heroes and future hopes of Azeroth, such as Khadgar and Anduin.

Exactly, isn't it its role to make you doubt?

Like he's only seeding corruption...

[Sorrowseer]

What makes you think that what Il'gynoth whispers is actually true? It doesn't have to be. There is no point in revealing what you and your boss are up to after having planned it for thousands of years.

It makes more sense to actually decieve whoever you come across. Il'gynoth could simply be trying to make the adventuers doubt the biggest heroes and future hopes of Azeroth, such as Khadgar and Anduin.

In universe that makes sense, but its not taken in-universe, it is an opportunity to create speculation by the team so has been used to do so, all the things will come true.