[Balance] Legion Discussion

[MV Kaa]

What? Please tell me how anything he says means boomkins get benched? if you get benched that is your own fault, dont blame him.

[kryptik93]

No you don't overwrite the snapshot, that's why it's called "snapshotting". Whatever mastery you had when you acquire your first stack of each empowerment is what the following ones will have regardless of your current mastery. So as long as you don't consume all of your empowerment stacks you can indefinetly keep very high mastery empowerments.

Just to be clear, say the trinket reaches 10 stacks and i starsurge (i get 1 empowerment) From that one empowerment i'm keeping 1 lunar strike empowerment available throughout the whole fight, does that mean any extra empowerment on top of that 1 will always have as much as mastery on it from the trinket regardless whether the trinket proc'd or not?




Edit: Alright i tried the above and holy fuck, how did i only find out about this, so excited to do it on tomorrow's raid and hunt a higher ilvl version.

[Frostyfire14]

I mean, logs are logs, not everyone can be the best hunter, the best demon hunter, the best mage. If you are destroying your guilds meters as Balance and not dying to mechanics, play the fucking game as Balance then.

Period.

[wing5wong]

I mean, logs are logs, not everyone can be the best hunter, the best demon hunter, the best mage. If you are destroying your guilds meters as Balance and not dying to mechanics, play the fucking game as Balance then.

Period.

I agree if you're in a casual style guild. But a hardcore guild of equal ability- it just doesn't work out this way.
Obviously there are some really good balance Druids who just don't want to advance to a more hardcore guild, so they should enjoy themselves regardless.

[MV Kaa]

I mean, logs are logs, not everyone can be the best hunter, the best demon hunter, the best mage. If you are destroying your guilds meters as Balance and not dying to mechanics, play the fucking game as Balance then.

Period.

Exactly, and even if balance is bad, which it isnt in any shape or form, top guilds will still bring atleast one. They will never be in such a bad spot to where no one will take them.

[paror]

Exactly, and even if balance is bad, which it isnt in any shape or form, top guilds will still bring atleast one. They will never be in such a bad spot to where no one will take them.

Not 1 top guild did actually. Only if they had legedary head they are worth bringing. Chance on getting head? Yeah really really small

[Alame]

Not 1 top guild did actually. Only if they had legedary head they are worth bringing. Chance on getting head? Yeah really really small

Define "top guild"

Encore is top 15 US and took Gapezilla.
Promethean is US 11 and tried Boomkins on Cenarius, the reason they took so many warlocks instead of a Boomkin is because we don't have a Boomkin main on active roster right now, and the guys with boomkin alts performed better on their warlocks.

There was no way a Boomkin was going to be involved in the world first race this tier. They're much more mechanically challenging to output the same DPS as a hunter/fire mage, and when you're on the bleeding edge and consistency is so key you take the easier-to-execute class 9 times out of 10. With Paragon disbanding and lappee not competing in the race we didn't have a player competing who would choose boomkin over the other classes.

Look at Gapezilla as your watermark - While Encore isn't a world-first challenging guild, they're still competitive enough to make class swaps when necessary for the sake of progression. Gapezilla is an exceptional player with a history of playing Balance to it's maximum potential, so if he starts electing to take another class that's when you know Balance is really in trouble.

That's not to say less-skilled players won't struggle to justify their spots - but that's a player-skill issue and not necessarily a class issue. When your top boomkins struggle to justify their spots, that's when you're looking at a balancing issue. The fact that Balance places so much more of a demand on the player to play on par with mages/hunters is a design issue, not a tuning one.

Regarding the Mastery snapshotting - this is what concerns me most about Balance. Based on what we know of Blizzard's design principles it's pretty clearly unintended, but it's propping up an otherwise-underwhelming spec right now. Should Blizzard choose to fix this bug without adding some compensatory buffs, we could see the skill-ceiling and maximum potential of Balance drop like a rock and some real issues start to crop up.

[Myztikrice]

Not 1 top guild did actually. Only if they had legedary head they are worth bringing. Chance on getting head? Yeah really really small

So 'not one did' despite the ones that did.

[paror]

So 'not one did' despite the ones that did.

If you are referring to the post up here. Gapezilla has the legedary head....

[Cyous]

Snapshotting is ~5% DPS per 3k snapshotted. Assumes ED helm. Assumes you're as good as Nagura. Assumes a very lucky early proc. It's like 2%/3000 mastery at best otherwise.

It's not that great without ED (go figure).

[Lucrece]

As previously mentioned - elvui offers great indicators for both boss frames and nameplates.

Enemy grid is even better, or even Kui Nameplates.

Enemy Grid makes tracking dots on trash packs so easy...without having to deal with stupid overlapped nameplates and clicking the wrong one.

[wing5wong]

Enemy grid is even better, or even Kui Nameplates.

Enemy Grid makes tracking dots on trash packs so easy...without having to deal with stupid overlapped nameplates and clicking the wrong one.

im fairly sure they are breaking EG in 7.1 =/

[Lucrece]

The bastards ;*(

[Myztikrice]

If you are referring to the post up here. Gapezilla has the legedary head....

'Don't bring a Druid unless he has a Legendary helm' means they still brought Druids with Legendary Helms, ie Balance Druids were in top 1 guilds during their kills. Hope this helps you.

[MV Kaa]

Well you cant say im wrong, because im not. "They didnt bring a balance druid unless they had the helm" well they still brought one

[ChickenChaser]

Define "top guild"

Encore is top 15 US and took Gapezilla.
Promethean is US 11 and tried Boomkins on Cenarius, the reason they took so many warlocks instead of a Boomkin is because we don't have a Boomkin main on active roster right now, and the guys with boomkin alts performed better on their warlocks.

There was no way a Boomkin was going to be involved in the world first race this tier. They're much more mechanically challenging to output the same DPS as a hunter/fire mage, and when you're on the bleeding edge and consistency is so key you take the easier-to-execute class 9 times out of 10. With Paragon disbanding and lappee not competing in the race we didn't have a player competing who would choose boomkin over the other classes.

Look at Gapezilla as your watermark - While Encore isn't a world-first challenging guild, they're still competitive enough to make class swaps when necessary for the sake of progression. Gapezilla is an exceptional player with a history of playing Balance to it's maximum potential, so if he starts electing to take another class that's when you know Balance is really in trouble.

That's not to say less-skilled players won't struggle to justify their spots - but that's a player-skill issue and not necessarily a class issue. When your top boomkins struggle to justify their spots, that's when you're looking at a balancing issue. The fact that Balance places so much more of a demand on the player to play on par with mages/hunters is a design issue, not a tuning one.

Regarding the Mastery snapshotting - this is what concerns me most about Balance. Based on what we know of Blizzard's design principles it's pretty clearly unintended, but it's propping up an otherwise-underwhelming spec right now. Should Blizzard choose to fix this bug without adding some compensatory buffs, we could see the skill-ceiling and maximum potential of Balance drop like a rock and some real issues start to crop up.

Gape had helm as his first legendary

Nagura had helm as her first legendary...

If i remember right Nagura had said somewhere that she thought she was probably gonna sit this tier before getting her helm like 3 days before mythic opened.

Of the lets say top 50 world guilds Balance was very low on the representation chart. Go look at mythic xavius logs right now there are less boomkin logs than mages/spriests/hunters/warlocks/most melee.

Druid is actually the lowest of all viable ranged classes.

We had 2 druids on our roster and we ran me and tachi for most bosses but when it came time for the "real" bosses He had helm I didn't and I got sat for melee doing 50k more dps than me because without helm druid is kinda shit.

[Madus]

There was no way a Boomkin was going to be involved in the world first race this tier. They're much more mechanically challenging to output the same DPS as a hunter/fire mage, and when you're on the bleeding edge and consistency is so key you take the easier-to-execute class 9 times out of 10. With Paragon disbanding and lappee not competing in the race we didn't have a player competing who would choose boomkin over the other clas.

Imho its more bloat instead of mechanic... Moonkin have mechanicaly only 4 different spells : nuke(builder), dot, nuke(spender), aoe(spender). But with bloat and unability to recycle old eclipse spells they bloated it to 3 nuke builders ,3 dots, spender and aoe. Then they ductaped it with empowers so there is "reason" for their existance.
Instead of implementation some new "duo casting" feature, or specialization of our spells on encounter, we use them all every time with only difference where you spend your asp for. No matter if single/ multi target you stll gonna use all dots, all builders and your dmgdone is scattered on 6+ spells what is only create tracking difficulty. Heh moonkin is like unplayable without wa/pa addons, thats like major design failure.
Dmgdealing difficulty in wow doest work because there is no payback for harder plays only table based outputs.
Funny that after so much mkin changes they are unable to find correct way...

[Tyze]

im fairly sure they are breaking EG in 7.1 =/

RIP. Enemygrid is what made me accept dot classes..

[Alame]

We had 2 druids on our roster and we ran me and tachi for most bosses but when it came time for the "real" bosses He had helm I didn't and I got sat for melee doing 50k more dps than me because without helm druid is kinda shit.

But they still took a Boomkin. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's no issues with Balance, but they're not "class is useless" issues. As I've said previously, most of the issues come from needing to RNG into a helm drop to be competitive, which is atrocious design. It also doesn't help that the majority of EN is either single target or priority target, which exacerbates the Druid's need for Dreamcatcher.

Funny that after so much mkin changes they are unable to find correct way...

Pretty sure this is caused by there being no strong identity of what Balance druid is within the class design team. Three completely different designs across three expacs is pretty indicative of that. They're just throwing ideas against the wall and hoping one of them will stick, but they're not taking what works out of each iteration and carrying it forward into the next one.

[ChickenChaser]

But they still took a Boomkin. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there's no issues with Balance, but they're not "class is useless" issues. As I've said previously, most of the issues come from needing to RNG into a helm drop to be competitive, which is atrocious design. It also doesn't help that the majority of EN is either single target or priority target, which exacerbates the Druid's need for Dreamcatcher.

Yeah but what your missing is I got sat for melee doing 50k more dps.... Without their BIS legendary. We need helm to compete with other classes without good legendaries once they have good legendaries even helm puts us middle to bottom of the pack.. 100% we get a buff in 7.1 tuning pass. Or else I'm hopping to greener pastures. If were not fixed by 7.1 tuning pass Ill be gearing my mage for Nighthold.