Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Xanatu]

A quick question. I just got the blood relic from ursoc (AGAIN) and I was thinking, my current blood relic is 870 with Black Powder, Ursoc's Relic is 865 but with Fate's Thirst. Now most guides suggest prioritizing relic ilv over abilities. But the ilv diference on my weapon is only 1 and Fates Thirst is FAR superior to Black Powder. Should I go for Ursoc's relic and destroy the 870 one?

Please show me literally any guide that says this for rogue.

[sylekta]

Subtlety, since both the Insignia and the Sub boots can drop then. Those two are the ones I want. Not that it matters since my first leggie will be Sephuz anyway

sigh, i got sephuz....quite useful on xavius but yeah..... pretty sad

[Grenzstein]

I really want to play Outlaw. I love the theme and the gameplay. I really wish that Blizz would at least buff it to be on par with Assassination atm.

[Bareno]

Any macro experts here know how to make a macro that would prevent use of pistol shot ater I vanish? My ambush / pistol shot are the same key, and sometimes when I vanish and press my ambush ability, it does a pistol shot instead. I don't see any reason why I would EVER use pistol shot after vanishing so I would like to have a macro that would prevent the use of pistol shot after a vanish.

[Animatelol]

Any macro experts here know how to make a macro that would prevent use of pistol shot ater I vanish? My ambush / pistol shot are the same key, and sometimes when I vanish and press my ambush ability, it does a pistol shot instead. I don't see any reason why I would EVER use pistol shot after vanishing so I would like to have a macro that would prevent the use of pistol shot after a vanish.

/cast [stealth] Ambush; [nostealth] Pistol Shot

I'm pretty sure this is how it works.

[Deleted]

Please show me literally any guide that says this for rogue.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1314953135

[elfporn]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1314953135

That guide supports Xanatu's assertion that NO GUIDE states ilvl>trait.

That relic sheet lists itemlevel equivalencies for a single rank of the actual traits. Here's how it works - you get a relic, lookup the ilvl equivalency on the relic sheet for its trait, and add that to the itemlevel of the relic - now do the same for the one you're thinking of replacing. Whichever result has a greater itemlevel is the relic you should use.

Tldr: NEVER just use the highest ilvl relic, no matter what spec you play.

[Deleted]

Hey guys! So I have a ton of questions I havn't been able to figure out good answers for about outlaw itemisation right now, so I'm just going to splooge them all here and hope someone has some insight to offer! If my questions have been explicitly answered elsewhere in the thread, please feel free to flame the shit out of me.

For general reference, I'm currently sitting at i866 equipped (869 from bags), with 25037 Agi, 39% Crit, 8% Haste, 43% Mastery and 9% Versatility with terrible trinkets. Armory link here: eu dot battle dot net/wow/en/character/outland/Kraitlyn/simple - sorry, MMO Champion won't let me post direct links because I don't have much posting history.

Alright, to begin with, I'm just going to make it clear what sources I'm using for information and how I've been interpreting them (in case I'm horrendously wrong about something). For the most part, I've been treating Crit/Vers as my "BiS stats" combination when it comes to rolling on items, although I also appreciate that using only items with that configuration would actually be less than ideal (as if that would actually ever be a problem, crit/vers leather seems hard to find). I fully understand that a balance of stats is the better approach. With that said, I'm finding it pretty difficult to figure out what that ideal balance is because of the amount of conflicting information I'm seeing:

• Icy veins gives the static stat weights that everyone is probably aware of, indicating pretty close relative values (with Crit/Vers at the top). Obviously there's no way these stats can be real time stat weights for my character specifically, so no problems there - it's a general guide, got it.
• Right now, AMR is telling me that Mastery should be my highest priority, and when I click on the "view strategy" button, it gives me a stat weight of 8.13 for mastery (the rest are between 6.64 and 7.11). Worryingly, AMR calculates my mastery at 48%, when every other source of information including the in game character sheet shows me at 43%.
• Those weights are mirrored by Pawn; I've only just installed it and I'm not particularly familiar with it, but I'm assuming Pawn shares a source with AMR for figuring out stat weights. However, when I actually SWITCH heavily mastery itemised pieces of gear in for gear with no mastery, the stats don't seem to adjust at all.
• Stjern's guide seems to be pretty well written, but also uses graphs which look like they come from Shadowcraft, which people keep telling me not to use right now. Some of the itemisation suggestions also conflict with other sources.
• As I understand it currently, Shadowcraft is basically just FUBAR, so I've been ignoring it. I could be completely wrong on this count, if so please let me know. With that said, if I am wrong about Shadowcraft not working quite right at the moment, why does it offer such wildly different advice to AMR?

Alright, so from the above you should be able to tell that basically speaking, my problem is not knowing which sources to trust. So, given that information, here are my actual questions:

1) Are the stat weights I'm seeing in AMR/Pawn actually dynamically calculated for my character, or not? If SO, then why don't they seem to change when I change items? If NOT, then how should I be real time evaluating my stats?

2) How does AMR calculate the value of Arcway/Court of Stars set bonuses, and how can I know when it's worth breaking the set for another piece?

3) Using AMR, Stjern's Guide and just generally simming for myself has all given pretty wildly different results for trinkets; what's actually good?

4) I've been experiencing some energy starvation issues since the nerf; which stat is better for combating that, mastery or haste? As per Stjern's guide, I've switched to some Fatebringer relics instead of Fate's Thirst, and that HAS helped quite a bit, but I still hit dry spells with energy and don't know how to best address that.

Thanks massively in advance for anyone that bothered to read and tries to answer!

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if 3 Fatebringer relics are worth it? Or in generel is there any combination of Fatebringer and Fate's Thirst that is optimal for dps? Because I currently have 3 Fatebringer relics but was wondering if having more than one Fatebringer relics is bad. And also considering that i have 3 Fatebringer relics, would anyone recommend me building less mastery and haste since the energy regen is now provided through Fatebringer?

[Deleted]

Does anyone know if 3 Fatebringer relics are worth it? Or in generel is there any combination of Fatebringer and Fate's Thirst that is optimal for dps? Because I currently have 3 Fatebringer relics but was wondering if having more than one Fatebringer relics is bad. And also considering that i have 3 Fatebringer relics, would anyone recommend me building less mastery and haste since the energy regen is now provided through Fatebringer?

Most likely any 2/1 combination would be better than a 3x the same combination, because of the synergy. But the difference probably would be so minor that it's not worth 5 relic itemlevels.

[Deleted]

That guide supports Xanatu's assertion that NO GUIDE states ilvl>trait.

That relic sheet lists itemlevel equivalencies for a single rank of the actual traits. Here's how it works - you get a relic, lookup the ilvl equivalency on the relic sheet for its trait, and add that to the itemlevel of the relic - now do the same for the one you're thinking of replacing. Whichever result has a greater itemlevel is the relic you should use.

Tldr: NEVER just use the highest ilvl relic, no matter what spec you play.

Yes, I get that. I only picked up the wrong context. I thought he was replying to

Should I go for Ursoc's relic and destroy the 870 one?

My bad.

Edit: So, while I am here I wanna adress something that is not even discussed here yet. Anyone else get a high statweight on mastery now with the new Ursoc script on AMR? I am hesitant to blindly trust the sudden swing, but I plan on building up a mastery gear collection for sub anyway.

[Deleted]

Doest anyone know the true stat values now? AMR shows other results than anything other and vice versa, really don't know what to follow right now.

[Deleted]

outlaw is by far the worst mythic EN spec right now, realy sad to see that.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#
I already switched to assa 2 days ago, but i need a lot more AP for the third golden right now..

I would be REALY pissed if they buff outlaw in several weeks.. do it now or never.

[Zoopercat]

@Jyon - sorry I missed your post earlier. I'm from AMR and can help.

1. The stat weights you see are the default ones based on just 1 character setup. We'll be adding more over time. You can get custom ones really easily. To do that, go to the simulator: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/run and load your character. Change the sim type on the right from 'single run' to 'gearing strategy.' Set the max iLevel option to how far out you want to play (next 5 ilevels, or 20? etc). Click simulate.

2. We calculate all procs with simulations. All of our 'stat weights' also include simulation data for every item with a proc. Those procs are then ranked directly from simulations. This is true when you do a custom gearing strategy like I described in #1. It's automatically included, you don't have to do anything special.

3. You can sim each trinket individually. It's very easy on AMR (and doesn't require a client download or anything). Here's a video on how to do that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWV6CbgliKk Now, of course the results depend on the type of fight, etc. Our Ursoc script is a great way to test a real single-target raid boss. Iskar is a good AoE test (until we add in emerald nightmare AoE stuff).

4. I'll leave this to the rogue experts.

[Wow]

outlaw is by far the worst mythic EN spec right now, realy sad to see that.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10#
I already switched to assa 2 days ago, but i need a lot more AP for the third golden right now..

I would be REALY pissed if they buff outlaw in several weeks.. do it now or never.

I would think if they were going to do they would do whenever those spriest retuning 100 talents happen which they say after 7.1 for those. If nothing happens here it's not happening.

And filling in assassin isn't bad you can get all golds 358k ap total vs 3 gold for outlaw is 2.3m ap for less and less power gains as you go up...

[Notter]

I would think if they were going to do they would do whenever those spriest retuning 100 talents happen which they say after 7.1 for those. If nothing happens here it's not happening.

And filling in assassin isn't bad you can get all golds 358k ap total vs 3 gold for outlaw is 2.3m ap for less and less power gains as you go up...

yeah... considering they haven't reverted the nerfs for outlaw already, i don't see any changes coming in the next 2 weeks until patch.

and personally my problem with transitioning to sin, is that i can't, for the love of me, get a shadow relic.

[Wow]

yeah... considering they haven't reverted the nerfs for outlaw already, i don't see any changes coming in the next 2 weeks until patch.

Nothing will probably happen but many are spamming then about their mage double standard so who knows.

[Blayke]

Quick question about artifact path.

Why is it recommended to take Black Powder before Fortune's Boon? Yes, I understand that it gets you to a Golden trait (blurred time) faster, but that talent seems rather lacklustre as compared to a 25 second cd reduction for AR, given how powerful AR is for us.

So, just wondering. Thanks for any and all help.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the response Zoopercat (and I think it's totally rad you guys pick through these forums to answer questions promoting AMR). Do you have any insight into this part of my post, though?

Right now, AMR is telling me that Mastery should be my highest priority, and when I click on the "view strategy" button, it gives me a stat weight of 8.13 for mastery (the rest are between 6.64 and 7.11). Worryingly, AMR calculates my mastery at 48%, when every other source of information including the in game character sheet shows me at 43%.

I still have no idea why there's such a discrepancy in my mastery calculation.

[TwentyTwelve]

Quick question as im generally curious... Why is the egg of serpentrix rated to highly? Its proc is garbage unless i'm mistaken, it's doing on average 1.5-2m dmg every boss for our outlaw rogue.
2m dmg?

Wouldnt ANY OTHER agility trinket + a random stat or proc/on use be better.