Republican Election 2016 - Donald Trump Megathread [OFFICIAL]

[Krigaren]

A vote for a third party can easily be cast as "I'm fed up with both of you, and its time to start looking at other options" rather than an endorsement for that party's candidate, given that said candidate will not be president one way or the other.

But voting 3rd party doesn't do that. Do you think Democrats or Republicans look at the 2% the 3rd party candidate received and go, "Holy crap, people are fed up with us!" No, because it doesn't affect them at all. The reason 3rd party candidates are ignored in this country is because they're either completely bat-shit crazy, or because they have zero qualifications to run.

The problem isn't that we have a two party system. The problem is that the independent parties are so bad at getting their word out and starting an actual movement that no one takes them seriously. The presidential race certainly isn't the time to be doing it, because they're just pissing in the wind at that point.

Sports analogy time: A 3rd party candidate running for president is like your local flag football team going to play in the Super Bowl. You don't have the support, the experience, nor are you at all prepared for it. You're going to lose, and lose badly, and all you're really doing in the process is making a joke of yourself. To get to that level, just like running for president, you need to start from the ground and work your way up. If the Green party and Libertarians want so badly to play in the big leagues, they need to start winning state and local elections. They need to start getting people in the state and federal legislatures. They need to make their name and their brand known to the wider public as a viable, serious option.

Right now, all Jill Stein and Gary Johnson are doing is stroking their own egos. They don't care about the direction of this country, and they certainly don't care if they end up being partially responsible for election of the worst candidate in American history. All they care about is their own selfish needs and agenda, and rage at people who call their validity into question. They're both absolute quacks who are in this for themselves, and voting for them doesn't send a message to anyone except to fuel their delusions that anyone is making a difference. Voting 3rd party doesn't make you ideologically pure, it doesn't convey meaning or gravitas. You may as well skip voting for president at all.

[Kujako]

True, I only meant that this wasn't the only reason Stein wasn't going to win. I didn't mean to imply that this isn't a legitimate issue, so sorry if I gave that impression.

I voted for Stein, though I really hope she loses (in CA which will go for Hillary, so my vote really doesn't mater). Did it even though I disagree with her on just about everything, but I would love to see both the green and the libertarian parties get the magic 5% needed to automatically be on all the ballots in four years.

[DeadmanWalking]

I'm sorry but you are suffering from a severe hallucination in which you believe in an extreme caricature of Donald Trump, as well as other completely insane ideas like 'The only people he fully represents are racists/misogynists/trolls.' You are unable to realize that you are stuck in a hallucination because of a constant stream of confirmation bias that you are likely being fed through the media.

If you are voting against Donald Trump, more power to you, so long as you are doing it because you disagree with his actual policies, and you are voting for somebody who's policies you agree with. If you are voting against Trump because you believe he is literally Hitler, then you have been robbed of your free will and your ability to make a rational choice, much the same way somebody indoctrinated into a religious cult.

What policies? Trump doesn't have any policies. His policy is 'I will tell you what I am going to do once I am president." which is the oldest used car salesman trick in the book.

Furthermore you would do very well to stop assuming why I vote against Trump. Did I say anything about him being hitler? No? In fact yesterday I went off on people here calling either candidate Hitler. You need to do a little less assuming and a little more knowing before you decide to go off on your tirades.

I vote against Trump because he is a complete disaster of a man, incapable of keeping his own party onboard and keeping himself under a modicum of control. That kind of person does not need to be running this nation. He lost me the moment he alluded to the size of his cock on national TV because he is so thin skinned that he couldn't help but take the bait of a bad rubio joke when he would of been better served to take the high road and call him out on his bad behavior rather than answering bad behavior with worse behavior.

[Breccia]

When you hear people saying that literally nothing can convince them that Trump is not evil

There's plenty he could have done to make that argument plausible. He chose not to do any of them.
He chose to promote violence at his rallies.
He chose to judge people based on their religion.
He chose to objectify women, groping issues or not.
He chose to be racist against Hispanics and African Americans
He chose not to give to charity, even in cases where he promised he would.
He chose not to pay hundreds of contractors to whom he was contractually obligated.
-- in many of those cases, he chose to drag things out in court, even countersuing, rather than paying his contractual obligations.
He chose to escape with golden parachutes while his businesses failed and went bankrupt.
He chose to create a fraudulent university.
He chose to demonize refugees, women and children fleeing from a war zone.
He chose to pick enemies from even the Republican Party, rather than work with them.
He chose to cheat on his wives, plural, and he bragged about it.

He's not Roman Catholic, and I'm not his priest. He can't take all of that back with an apology anymore. Sorry, but a 70-year-old man has had his chances to prove his moral and ethical character in front of the world. Donald Trump chose to act like his own personal gain was the most important goal in his life and that other people didn't matter. Now, he has to live with the consequences of being judged for his actions.

It's not that there's nothing Trump could do. It's that there's nothing he could do anymore.

[cubby]

Given that some of the media appearances she has had have featured her being unable to articulate how exactly she would even be able to enact any of her policies and indulging a 9/11 truther, I don't really think lack of media exposure is what precludes her from having a chance of being elected.

I could not agree more - her inability to garner even remotely serious attention is her own fault, rather than the media's. Engaging truthers and chicken little statements push you out of the limelight before you can even see it.

At this point, if we're being honest, a vote for a third party is not necessarily a vote for their candidate. I am debating voting Libertarian, even though Gary Johnson is a rather poor candidate. But he has no chance of winning, so its a moot point on who the candidate is. At this point its about finding some way to pry open the vice-grip the two-party system has on the electoral process, because look where that's gotten us. What the third parties should be doing is making concerted efforts in some states. Once they start sneaking off with electoral votes we there is a much better chance of actually giving other parties a national voice. That's not going to happen on a national effort.

If any third party is going to make a play for legitimacy, your strategy is solid. Grab a couple of electoral votes and you're at the Table as a rabble rouser at the very least.

That being said, Gary Johnson is an idiot. He's terrible under pressure, couldn't name world leaders when asked, and while his policies might have some merit, most are pie-in-the-sky wishes of people who don't understand the reality of congressional legislation. I get that you may not want to vote for Hillary, and only the silly people at this point are voting for Trump, but don't vote for a bad candidate just because you want to make a statement. And if you do want to make a statement, let the world know that we don't accept a "Trumper" as a legitimate candidate by getting Hillary in the White House with that many more popular votes.

That or I'll just write in Eisenhower again.

That could work too.

[Krigaren]

I'm sorry but you are suffering from a severe hallucination in which you believe in an extreme caricature of Donald Trump, as well as other completely insane ideas like 'The only people he fully represents are racists/misogynists/trolls.' You are unable to realize that you are stuck in a hallucination because of a constant stream of confirmation bias that you are likely being fed through the media.

If you are voting against Donald Trump, more power to you, so long as you are doing it because you disagree with his actual policies, and you are voting for somebody who's policies you agree with. If you are voting against Trump because you believe he is literally Hitler, then you have been robbed of your free will and your ability to make a rational choice, much the same way somebody indoctrinated into a religious cult.

It's confirmation bias to have been aware of Trump for my entire life, and know that he's always been a scumbag con artist? It's confirmation bias to hear the words that he speaks when he talks about women as objects, brags about being able to sexually assault women, calls women "pigs", rates women based on their appearance and whether or not he'd bang them while he's campaigning to be president? All of these things are misogynist.

It's confirmation bias to hear him, again with his own mouth and own words, say that he would bring back waterboarding and "much worse"? It's confirmation bias to hear him say that he "wouldn't take anything off the table" when it comes to using nuclear weapons in Europe? It's confirmation bias to hear him say that he wants to "take out" the families of terrorists? All of these things are war crimes.

It's confirmation bias to hear him threaten lawsuits, and promise to silence the media? It's confirmation bias to hear him threaten to jail his political opponents? It's confirmation bias to hear him say that he wants people to "monitor" voting sites? All of these are un-constitutional and illegal.

It's confirmation bias when he lies about reality, like his mic not working during the first debate, or denying that he was sniffling, or denying that he wasn't always against the Iraq war, or lying about donating to veterans charities, or basically denying things that have been fact checked and verified over and over and over again. All of these things makes him a lair.

It's confirmation bias to see him shitpost and sub-tweet about anyone and everyone who says something critical to him? It's confirmation bias to hear him talk about how wonderful Putin is? It's confirmation bias to hear him take credit for things that he had absolutely no hand in, while simultaneously blaming others for things they had no hand in? It's confirmation bias to hear him attack Gold Star families? All of these things show him to be a thin-skinned scumbag without the temperament to lead the most powerful military in the world.

But please, tell us more about how we're all just hallucinating and believing in a "caricature".

[Noxx79]

There's plenty he could have done to make that argument plausible. He chose not to do any of them.
He chose to promote violence at his rallies.
He chose to judge people based on their religion.
He chose to objectify women, groping issues or not.
He chose to be racist against Hispanics and African Americans
He chose not to give to charity, even in cases where he promised he would.
He chose not to pay hundreds of contractors to whom he was contractually obligated.
-- in many of those cases, he chose to drag things out in court, even countersuing, rather than paying his contractual obligations.
He chose to escape with golden parachutes while his businesses failed and went bankrupt.
He chose to create a fraudulent university.
He chose to demonize refugees, women and children fleeing from a war zone.
He chose to pick enemies from even the Republican Party, rather than work with them.
He chose to cheat on his wives, plural, and he bragged about it.

He's not Roman Catholic, and I'm not his priest. He can't take all of that back with an apology anymore. Sorry, but a 70-year-old man has had his chances to prove his moral and ethical character in front of the world. Donald Trump chose to act like his own personal gain was the most important goal in his life and that other people didn't matter. Now, he has to live with the consequences of being judged for his actions.

It's not that there's nothing Trump could do. It's that there's nothing he could do anymore.

For me, two things brought to light in this election cemented my opinion about Trump's values:
1. The comment about the Hispanic judge showed me that he indeed values Hispanics lower than himself, as he implies that since the judge has Mexican parents, he would automatically be against Trump's border wall and be unable to judge him fairly. Therefore any Hispanic is automatically associated with illegals apparently.

2. The birther nonsense. He was given a point blank chance to apologize for it at the 1st debate and he said "I say nothing". Furthermore by putting "president" in quotes at a recent rally shows me he has no respect for the presidency or the office, and somehow still thinks that Obama is illegitimate. (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...itimacy-229842)

As for his misogyny, that's obvious, and I'd known about that already. (not brought to light in this election cycle)

So venant can call it an illusion or a delusion or whatever, but I see evidence, and they are his own words.

[May90]

I voted for Stein, though I really hope she loses (in CA which will go for Hillary, so my vote really doesn't mater). Did it even though I disagree with her on just about everything, but I would love to see both the green and the libertarian parties get the magic 5% needed to automatically be on all the ballots in four years.

I don't know, I can kinda sympathize with the general direction of the Green Party... But if Stein really is the best they can offer, then perhaps I don't agree with their implementation of that direction and wouldn't want to see them having any power anywhere. Stein is strongly anti-science, she prefers to base her ideas on superstitions and emotions, rather than logic and common sense. As someone working in science, this is the last person I would want to see in charge of anything. I'd even rather have Trump in the office, as that guy, at least, doesn't care much about science - while this woman would impose harsh restrictions on science and its products. "Protect children from harmful wi-fi emissions" isn't even the silliest idea she's put out. :/

Her opinion on Hillary really doesn't matter much to me.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

But voting 3rd party doesn't do that. Do you think Democrats or Republicans look at the 2% the 3rd party candidate received and go, "Holy crap, people are fed up with us!" No, because it doesn't affect them at all. The reason 3rd party candidates are ignored in this country is because they're either completely bat-shit crazy, or because they have zero qualifications to run.

The problem isn't that we have a two party system. The problem is that the independent parties are so bad at getting their word out and starting an actual movement that no one takes them seriously. The presidential race certainly isn't the time to be doing it, because they're just pissing in the wind at that point.

Sports analogy time: A 3rd party candidate running for president is like your local flag football team going to play in the Super Bowl. You don't have the support, the experience, nor are you at all prepared for it. You're going to lose, and lose badly, and all you're really doing in the process is making a joke of yourself. To get to that level, just like running for president, you need to start from the ground and work your way up. If the Green party and Libertarians want so badly to play in the big leagues, they need to start winning state and local elections. They need to start getting people in the state and federal legislatures. They need to make their name and their brand known to the wider public as a viable, serious option.

Right now, all Jill Stein and Gary Johnson are doing is stroking their own egos. They don't care about the direction of this country, and they certainly don't care if they end up being partially responsible for election of the worst candidate in American history. All they care about is their own selfish needs and agenda, and rage at people who call their validity into question. They're both absolute quacks who are in this for themselves, and voting for them doesn't send a message to anyone except to fuel their delusions that anyone is making a difference. Voting 3rd party doesn't make you ideologically pure, it doesn't convey meaning or gravitas. You may as well skip voting for president at all.

This... is sort of what I was saying.
Jill Stein and Gary Johnson are irrelevant. The third parties backing them are fairly irrelevant. The best way to make them relevant would be for them to focus regionally and be legitimate contenders for being involved in the greater political discussion (the parties down the road, not the current candidates) by threatening to start taking coveted electoral votes.

I never claimed voting third party made me ideologically pure. Its deciding what to do when stuck with an array of bad choices. My option is to either not make a choice (vote), or to actually cast a vote that most closely reflects my opinion on the matter, which is that if the Democrats and Republicans aren't going to take their jobs seriously I'm all for bringing in fresh blood.
Is my individual vote going to matter in the long run? No. But its how I feel right now. Am I allowed to express that or not?

Well, actually how I feel is that we should give America a soft reboot and reconstitute the Federalist Party, start over from the ground up, because we need some serious restructuring. Maybe I'll write that in instead, sorry Eisenhower.

And if you do want to make a statement, let the world know that we don't accept a "Trumper" as a legitimate candidate by getting Hillary in the White House with that many more popular votes.

If the election looks like its going to be really close I will probably end up voting for Hillary, as much as it will rankle to vote for a major party candidate for the first time. Even if there's things I don't like I know A) where she stands and B) what she's likely to do as president.
I can't say either of those things about Trump.

[Venant]

What policies? Trump doesn't have any policies. His policy is 'I will tell you what I am going to do once I am president." which is the oldest used car salesman trick in the book.

Furthermore you would do very well to stop assuming why I vote against Trump. Did I say anything about him being hitler? No? In fact yesterday I went off on people here calling either candidate Hitler. You need to do a little less assuming and a little more knowing before you decide to go off on your tirades.

I vote against Trump because he is a complete disaster of a man, incapable of keeping his own party onboard and keeping himself under a modicum of control. That kind of person does not need to be running this nation. He lost me the moment he alluded to the size of his cock on national TV because he is so thin skinned that he couldn't help but take the bait of a bad rubio joke when he would of been better served to take the high road and call him out on his bad behavior rather than answering bad behavior with worse behavior.

From your other post I replied to:

What part of dictator strongman makes you think he doesn't have them now or won't ever have them? You are completely rediculous if you think Trump won't design the entire system to prop himself up.

The only people he fully represents are the racist/mysoginist/troll culture of the Alt-Wrong.

You believe he will become a 'dictator strongman' and that he only represents 'racists'. Do I need to point out the absurdity of either of these assertions?

This is an extreme caricature of Trump, its the type of image one gets from watching MSNBC and CNN all day, or only reading Vox and The Huffington Post. I am not attempting to impugn your character, I only wish to point out that you are viewing one of these candidates (and the people supporting that candidate) through a lens that has been warped by propagandists.

[Felya]

I did a bit more reading on inspiration of creating Gordon Gekko and thought this was kind of interesting.

A part of influence in creating the character was the "Junk bond king":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Milken

One of the big economic shots against Trump, is that his proposals implying refinancing or defaulting on debt, will have a huge negative impact on bonds. Buying bonds back at a lower rate than sold or Trump's "we'll make a deal" should sound familiar.

What we end up with is "Junk bond king" being the villain of Wallstreet, but the self admitted "debt king" is supposed to be the hero. You cannot make this stuff up... or I guess half of it...

[cubby]

There's plenty he could have done to make that argument plausible. He chose not to do any of them.
He chose to promote violence at his rallies.
He chose to judge people based on their religion.
He chose to objectify women, groping issues or not.
He chose to be racist against Hispanics and African Americans
He chose not to give to charity, even in cases where he promised he would.
He chose not to pay hundreds of contractors to whom he was contractually obligated.
-- in many of those cases, he chose to drag things out in court, even countersuing, rather than paying his contractual obligations.
He chose to escape with golden parachutes while his businesses failed and went bankrupt.
He chose to create a fraudulent university.
He chose to demonize refugees, women and children fleeing from a war zone.
He chose to pick enemies from even the Republican Party, rather than work with them.
He chose to cheat on his wives, plural, and he bragged about it.

He's not Roman Catholic, and I'm not his priest. He can't take all of that back with an apology anymore. Sorry, but a 70-year-old man has had his chances to prove his moral and ethical character in front of the world. Donald Trump chose to act like his own personal gain was the most important goal in his life and that other people didn't matter. Now, he has to live with the consequences of being judged for his actions.

It's not that there's nothing Trump could do. It's that there's nothing he could do anymore.

This should be the end of this thread. Nothing above is debatable and isn't even the entire list of Trump's horrible behavior.

To Trumpers: tell me again why any sane, remotely intelligent person should vote for Trump?

[Felya]

This is an extreme caricature of Trump, its the type of image one gets from watching MSNBC and CNN all day, or only reading Vox and The Huffington Post. I am not attempting to impugn your character, I only wish to point out that you are viewing one of these candidates (and the people supporting that candidate) through a lens that has been warped by propagandists.

This caricature of Trump has existed for over 30 years. When Trump was a caricature on SNL, being played by the late Phill Heartman in the 80s, neither MSNBC, Huffington post or Vox existed... I'd bet niether did you...

[breadisfunny]

Trump doesn't have croney loyalists under him? What part of dictator strongman makes you think he doesn't have them now or won't ever have them? You are completely rediculous if you think Trump won't design the entire system to prop himself up. There isn't a single thing Trump does that doesn't involve enriching himself even if it is by hook or crook.

As far as media being beholden to her you are going to have to have some proof of this beyond your conspiracy theories. It is entirely possible that people in media see the two and decided that Trump was a complete disaster and work of their own accord to bring him down without having to sign a contract with Hillary. It is human nature to take ones political opinions and present them in what ever they do just like you do with your trumpite posts. Until you have actually proof that Hillary controls the media you can talk as much shit as you want but I am not required to believe a word that spews from your orifice.

I am not supporting Hillary, I would much rather someone else was elected but that someone can't be Donald Trump. He lost me the second he was so thin skinned that he had to allude to the size of his tiny cock on national television during a republican debate, showing me that he had no control over himself and no class or dignity. Such a person should never speak in front of a nation of children nor present himself as the candidate of a party that has long held the narrative that they were the moral majority. The only people he fully represents are the racist/mysoginist/troll culture of the Alt-Wrong. I would rather have Hillary Clinton at the helm for 4 years than put Donald Trump in charge of this nation for 4 hours. Any other Republican candidate with a half decent bone in their body would of wiped the floor with her but Donald is losing her because he can't control his own behavior, he has been a wart on the ass of society for 50 years and somehow think he is entitled to running a nation that he doesn't understand for a party whom he has never been a member of in deed or mentality.

at this point democracy isn't working anymore. neither side wants to negotiate so clearly we need someone to force them to with whatever means necessary. at least dictators get shit done. and they know how to get rid of problemmakers.

[cubby]

This is an extreme caricature of Trump, its the type of image one gets from watching MSNBC and CNN all day, or only reading Vox and The Huffington Post. I am not attempting to impugn your character, I only wish to point out that you are viewing one of these candidates (and the people supporting that candidate) through a lens that has been warped by propagandists.

No, it's not - it's what people with reasonable intelligence garner from seeing him in action. How do you not know this already?

[Felya]

at this point democracy isn't working anymore. neither side wants to negotiate so clearly we need someone to force them to with whatever means necessary. at least dictators get shit done.

So do the murders and rapists, as do good people. Fuck, just nominate Larry the cable guy...

[Krigaren]

This... is sort of what I was saying.

Right, and I got that. I was more responding to the end of your post about still voting 3rd party or doing a write-in. You're certainly free to do whatever you want, but my argument is that it won't make a difference if you do. A more powerful message will be to ensure Hillary wins and solidly denounce all of the absolute batshit crazy on the right. At this point it's not so much a vote for Hillary over Trump, but a vote for decency, respectability, and at least more morality than the other side is capable of.

Beyond that, I completely agree with your general premise that we need to re-build our democracy. Both democrats and republicans have the same issues when it comes to their corruption, they just show it in different ways with the different things that they support. We also need to firebomb people's notions of the two party system and get them to realize that it's not a Red Team vs. Blue Team but a complex series of policies and decisions that have actual effects and ramifications on the future of the world. We need different voices for that to happen, though. Bernie was a good start. Lets see if we can continue that trend.

[Benggaul]

Well, actually how I feel is that we should give America a soft reboot and reconstitute the Federalist Party, start over from the ground up, because we need some serious restructuring. Maybe I'll write that in instead, sorry Eisenhower.

At this point I think the Know-Nothing Party is re-emerging.

[jjokeefe29]

at this point democracy isn't working anymore. neither side wants to negotiate so clearly we need someone to force them to with whatever means necessary. at least dictators get shit done. and they know how to get rid of problemmakers.

Who is democracy not working for exactly? I love how that phrase gets thrown around all the time as though our society is in some dystopian disaster like The Hunger Games. Yes, things are tough right now. Things have been much worse, and we all got to where we are with democracy as a founding principle.

[Kujako]

I don't know, I can kinda sympathize with the general direction of the Green Party... But if Stein really is the best they can offer, then perhaps I don't agree with their implementation of that direction and wouldn't want to see them having any power anywhere. Stein is strongly anti-science, she prefers to base her ideas on superstitions and emotions, rather than logic and common sense. As someone working in science, this is the last person I would want to see in charge of anything. I'd even rather have Trump in the office, as that guy, at least, doesn't care much about science - while this woman would impose harsh restrictions on science and its products. "Protect children from harmful wi-fi emissions" isn't even the silliest idea she's put out. :/

Her opinion on Hillary really doesn't matter much to me.

Perhaps if they didn't need to spend so many resources getting on the ballets they could find a better candidate?