Artifacts are bad and blizzard lied

[Seranthor]

I'll start with the lie. They said that they would not make any big changes to classes in the expansion. This is due to the artifacts.

But what did they decide to do? Nerf hunters aim shot nerf mage pyroblast. Buff frost buff arcane buff fury warriors. All of these changes may seem minor to you but they influence dps.

Now what are we supposed to do? Arcane is now better than fire. What's that? You already sank thousands of artifact power into fire ? Too bad.

You have a legendary that is tied to that spec and you want to change specs? Too bad.

What gets me is that these nerfs are unwarranted.what if some of us play specs based on how well they perform?

If artifacts are locked behind massive time gates like this then there shouldn't be any changes to classes at all.

Where did they say they weren't making any big changes? please, show us the blue.

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You should sue them for ruining your life....

I would LOVE to read the lawsuit over this.

[Flurryfang]

As always, i think that people who say, that they are locked into one spec by AP, have not really tried to gear up their other artifact.

Yes! Its not like you can switch and be ready for raiding in ½ day, but it is far from the huge hurdle as somebody say. One of the reasons why Blizzard have done this, is proberly because they want players to have actually played their spec a bit before they jump into raiding and with AP, you are forced to play your new spec for a week
Its healthy and it stops us from having 200 arcane mages, who just switched because they heard of its powerlvl, but still don't know shit about the spec.

[Deleted]

So you are saying they should not care about balance at all.

Really now....

[Deleted]

He wasn't saying that it was. He was using that as an example, saying that IF Arcane became better than Fire (or if you just wanted to change for any other reason), you're screwed because of the way artifacts work.

Learn to comprehend what you fucking read.

Then he should have written it differently. the thread just leads to pure QQ about how he wants to be the FOTM top-dps and when a small change happens he'll be "forced" to swap. just another rant thread.

Also no need to get rude. Only makes you look dumb
try not to put too much into it Mr.Simpleton

[Deleted]

I'll start with the lie. They said that they would not make any big changes to classes in the expansion. This is due to the artifacts.

But what did they decide to do? Nerf hunters aim shot nerf mage pyroblast. Buff frost buff arcane buff fury warriors. All of these changes may seem minor to you but they influence dps.

So what's the actual lie here? They said they would not make big changes. And then they made minor changes. That..doesn't.. seem..like a lie.

Now what are we supposed to do? Arcane is now better than fire. What's that? You already sank thousands of artifact power into fire ? Too bad.

What on earth are you basing this on?

[caervek]

Spotted the FOTM-player.

FOTM isn't really a thing in Legion due to the artifacts and catchup gap.

[Svisalith]

If, for example, fire was the highest DPS spec for mages by a long shot, then most mage mains would feel pressured to go with fire, even if they prefer another spec. My mage alt shouldn't be penalised for being Frost, just because its the spec I prefer to play.

This was royally screwed up for the first tier of Legion because the spec balance was quite wildly off at the end of beta and at launch day. At one point recently mage had 95% / 5% / under1% representation between the three specs because everybody was already forced to choose a main spec - that's not something that you can easily fix. It'll naturally even out if arcane/frost is good for a long period of time and everybody can get way higher AK, way more AP but damn

[Sliske]

Fire is not better than arcane, you're just bad.

But keeping that in mind, lets look at the flipside of this dilemma.

I hear Legion is coming out. I think "sick, an op survival hunter weapon i can boost up and make myself op? Great! i'm a multi rank1 parsing player, it'll be fine if I play survival, right????

right??"

Wrong. The flipside to this coin is that there are maybe 3-4 RIGHT artifacts in Legion:

Fire Mage, still king
WW Monk, still kicking
Arms Warrior, RIP?
MM Hunter/BM Hunter, because choosing between mass dps and retarded ST dmg is fun.

So, if you were a high spirited arcane mage going into Legion? Too bad mate. Fuck off and die in the corner while the big boys play. If you were a fury warrior, looking forward to going HAM in some mythic dungeons and raids? Lol are you fuckin retarded? Just log out mate, im not healing you its a waste of mana.

In an ideal world every spec would be equal with strength and weaknesses.

This is not an ideal world. The solution is buffs and nerfs to the grossly overpowered specs like Fire Mage and Assa rogue as a pvp example.

I will agree with you that the system itself is bad - you still got fucked in the ass hard if you were a Havoc DH this expac. You still got shat on hard if you were any other spec than your top dps one. But that doesn't mean balance comes to a stand still, for the convenience of some players.

Your argument should be "make AP account wide" or "Make AP class wide", not "LOL DON'T NERF ME I ENJOY BEING OP XD"

[Surfd]

4) Yes, that is a legitimate concern we all had and I still believe the Artifact Power grind is a terribly annoying feature. In the past if I wanted to change specs (not just to wank at the damage meters but, you know, variety maybe? Fun per chance? Just saying you don't even need changes to a class to warrant an interest in a different spec) I could do so easily. With some luck and help from the guild I could get geared for that new spec in 2-3 weeks to be on the same level as my main-spec was.
Try doing that now. Yes, Artifact Knowledge helps but it's still a huge chore.

So, gearing over 2 to 3 weeks because you swapped to a different spec is somehow less difficult then equipping a new artifact and dumping 3 or 4 days worth of AP grind into it to get roughly 95% of what your main spec artifact has?

The math there doesnt add up.

I play pretty casually, on probably the WORST class to multispec on (druid, we have FOUR artifacts to play the catchup game with instead of just 3) and it took me all of about 3 days to bring my Boomkin artifact within 3 Trait points of my Main Guardian artifact (thats like 1 full minor trait. A marginal loss vs your other spec at best). If you keep ontop of your artifact knowledge research, it becomes VERY easy to play catch up.

Pretty much nothing stops you from collecting stat appropriate gear for any of your other, unused, specs untill you need them, then you just throw it on, equip your artifact, dump a few days worth of AP grind into it, and you will be practically on par with your original main spec relatively quickly.

[Deix-EU]

Extension is made to power up several specs. Not only once. I nearly have 3 drake talents on both of my specs.
The most "painful" thing is Relic. Once you have Three on each of your artifacts, the switch can be because the buff are made to make each specs equal to each other the most possible and at least for mage, this is the most balanced class so no complain allowed.

Besides, Fire still king overall because of move / reactiveness involved, mana etc. Before T19, I don't see Arcane becoming reliable.

[Vynny]

Equal only so far that they are competitive. Certain classes, and specs for that matter, should be slightly ahead of others for their designated role. That in turn means that any class that can fill multiple roles, whether through a different spec, or through cross-role abilities within the same spec, should be slightly behind classes that can only perform a single role, regardless of spec. Otherwise, why bother playing a pure class?

The only problem with a single spec being a good all rounder is that it gives an advantage to that spec over others, especially with artifact weapons. For example, look at fire mages in the beginning of the xpac. They were the best cleave, AoE, and single target spec for mages at the time and performed really well compared to other classes (never really being below mid tier no matter what). This advantage was further exacerbated by the fact that mages could confidently dump all their AP into just their fire artifact since it performed well in almost all situations. Compare that to warlocks who at the beginning of the xpac were dividing their artifact power between all 3 of their artifacts because we didn't know what blizz was going to buff to make us relevant again of the fact that they each performed kinda decent within their own niche, but performed dreadfully outside of it, so while my ranged officer was able to just go with fire and perform really well on all fights, I had to level my demo artifact for single target, destro artifact for cleave, and aff artifact for AoE.

Also, look at the disadvantages of being a heavily niche'd spec. Enh shaman's in WoD were sustained AoE's gods, but there were only 2 or 3 fights throughout the xpac where they could shine and were doomed to being sub-par dps outside of that, and there were classes like fire mage and demo warlock (in tier 17) who could perform just as well if not slightly better in AoE situations than Enh shaman while also having much better single target potential. The point is that unless the niche is common and the difference between a niche dps and an overall dps in a fight where the niche dps can shine is night and day then there's almost no point in investing effort and gear into a niche dps, but blizzard seems hesitant to restrict overall dps to reliable mediocrity and unleash niche dps to being godlike or shit tier depending on their niche.

[Deleted]

obvious troll is obvious.

[Deleted]

I think the real issue for switching spec during this extention is legendary & relics , not artefacts at all

Imo you can easily grind two artefact with the actual level of AK and it will get more easier with time.

Playing Warrior and got Arm/Fury pretty close (27/25) and I'm not farming 24/24 for this result


The real struggle to me is I'm stuck to only one spec cause I can't hunt legendary on two spec until i got BIS legendary on main spec (and it maybe could take the entire xpac with a bad luck streak)

Relics is another issue related to legendary , it's really too risky to switch loot spec to drop relics and that's a very very bad design


So for me , It always comes to the same thing: legendary should never have existed in a game like wow....or maybe only "multispec & neutral legendary" problably would have been smarter

[Hyve]

People need to stop just rolling with what is best...

Yes, some of the classes may always be bottom tier the whole expansion, that's bad design by Blizzard, but honestly, if you enjoy a class and master it, stick with it, people will bring you to raids because you know your shit! I've had some people want to re-roll in the guild, and I've told them not a chance.

You applied and joined as X, you stay as X. You wanna now go be Y, go look for a guild where they need Y.

[Lochton]

I'll start with the lie. They said that they would not make any big changes to classes in the expansion. This is due to the artifacts.

But what did they decide to do? Nerf hunters aim shot nerf mage pyroblast. Buff frost buff arcane buff fury warriors. All of these changes may seem minor to you but they influence dps.

Now what are we supposed to do? Arcane is now better than fire. What's that? You already sank thousands of artifact power into fire ? Too bad.

You have a legendary that is tied to that spec and you want to change specs? Too bad.

What gets me is that these nerfs are unwarranted.what if some of us play specs based on how well they perform?

If artifacts are locked behind massive time gates like this then there shouldn't be any changes to classes at all.

Big changes will happen, balancing isn't normally counted as that.

I still se fire mages kick arcane's butt.

[Deleted]

Holy Crap this post is seriously retarded as fk.

2 weeks ago i had 25 traits in resto - i swapped to balance druid with artifact aknowledge level of 12 that i currently have.

i've a freaky 28 traits in balance druid.

so get some tissues and cry in a freaky corner because you have been slacking all this time "time gated" no - artifact is super easy to get thesedays.

just on patch day, you could do 4x emissary chest, do the weekly quest with 4 mythic dungeons and run through karazhan + world quests = then you had yielded around 200k ap

if you didn't get this amount then you were obv either slacking with order ressources, to get your AK level up, or you were just lazy to do world quests. if neither of these conditions are true because you irl dont have time to play the game. then guess what. Then it doesn't fking matter what your dps are since you dont play the game on a high level anyway.

[Deleted]

FOTM isn't really a thing in Legion due to the artifacts and catchup gap.

What effect does FOTM not existing have on FOTM-players existing?
They didn't just drop dead once Legion hit; hence they still are there and start threads like this one.
(Now i am not saying they should die; i'm just pointing out how your reply doesn't make sense)

if you didn't get this amount then you were obv either slacking with order ressources, to get your AK level up, or you were just lazy to do world quests. if neither of these conditions are true because you irl dont have time to play the game. then guess what. Then it doesn't fking matter what your dps are since you dont play the game on a high level anyway.

I agree with the rest of the post; but this part might be slightly too much for your average player with a job and daily chores.
I think AK level of 11 would be more real. And the daily gain of about 80k is to be expected. Which still makes the catch-up easy enough to actually pull off.

[Deleted]

I'll start with the lie. They said that they would not make any big changes to classes in the expansion. This is due to the artifacts.

But what did they decide to do? Nerf hunters aim shot nerf mage pyroblast. Buff frost buff arcane buff fury warriors. All of these changes may seem minor to you but they influence dps.

Now what are we supposed to do? Arcane is now better than fire. What's that? You already sank thousands of artifact power into fire ? Too bad.

You have a legendary that is tied to that spec and you want to change specs? Too bad.

What gets me is that these nerfs are unwarranted.what if some of us play specs based on how well they perform?

If artifacts are locked behind massive time gates like this then there shouldn't be any changes to classes at all.

OP in a nutshell: Let's start a Blizzard hate thread to hide the fact i am mad about my classes nerf.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Then he should have written it differently.

No. Again: Learn to COMPREHEND what you read, rather than READ WHAT YOU WANT into what other people have written so that YOU can whine about a complete tangent and unrelated pet peeve of YOURS.

[Pull My Finger]

I'll start with the lie. They said that they would not make any big changes to classes in the expansion. This is due to the artifacts.

But what did they decide to do? Nerf hunters aim shot nerf mage pyroblast. Buff frost buff arcane buff fury warriors. All of these changes may seem minor to you but they influence dps.

Now what are we supposed to do? Arcane is now better than fire. What's that? You already sank thousands of artifact power into fire ? Too bad.

You have a legendary that is tied to that spec and you want to change specs? Too bad.

What gets me is that these nerfs are unwarranted.what if some of us play specs based on how well they perform?

If artifacts are locked behind massive time gates like this then there shouldn't be any changes to classes at all.

Actually, you're just whining and your thread is bad. You always played the game wrong if you changed specs the moment one single stupid talent got nerfed and another one got buffed. It has nothing to do with artifacts. Same with legendaries. Did you change your spec every time you got an item that was BiS for another spec?

You have ridiculous ideas about playing this game and are whining as if the game was doing something wrong. Get real.