I think Blizzard are overestimating how many people actually Mythic

[melodramocracy]

It's less about being "afraid" or something, it's just that for the Average Joe player it's not worth the time spent babysitting a group finder window and still probably not getting a group.

Unless you're REALLY motivated or REALLY like 5-mans, that time waste just isn't appealing. And if you already are REALLY motivated or REALLY like farming mythic, then you probably already have a guild/group in the first place. So you've got this design that really doesn't do much to help one group while actively discouraging another. All for what's really just the entry-level content of the expansion.

I wouldn't call it entry level content at all, it's probably the meat and potatoes of the game for many folks, considering how often it can be run at + level.

Oddly enough I wind up forming my own groups more often than not, as it's rare for my small guilds tanks to be online at some of the hours I play. For non-key mythics, I set the ilvl to 840, purposefully hoping to catch someone who's a bit lower, and I can't recall the last time anyone even signed up who wasn't under 860.

Anecdotes being what they are, I just don't see many in-game examples of people being hung out to dry.

[Aeula]

Certainly wouldn't be the first time. I've barely done any mythics or raids. Neither content interests me.

[melodramocracy]

M+0 is absolutely the entry level content of Legion.

Keystone mythics are another story, of course. But M+0 is the entry level 5-man content for the expansion (heroic really might as well not even exist if we're speaking about progression).

How do you figure? Heroics function as they always have, and give a sizable AP reward that ensures that they'll be run far after people outgear them (as has been the case for the past several expansions as well)

[CaptainV]

Or even raid...

90% of 7.1 is Mythic and Raid content and though I don't begrudge Blizzard adding content for Mythics and Raids but I worry they may be overestimating the numbers that actually do this regular. Now I know a number will say "If you don't like raiding then quit" and granted I imagine many well but that attitude will just cause massive sub drops and less $ for content

Blizzard is slowly movnig towards a Raid-focus that has been ebbing its way since Cataclysm but shows its ugliest face in Warlords. They understood raiding was a mistake but they dont understand what made it a problem.

We simply dont need Mythic when people already have heroic, which should simply become Heroic again, so people can actually have Heroic content.

Raiding has however often been one of wow's bigger selling points so honestly, without it, the game would feel very empty, Mythic dungeons are also a hit/miss experience as not everyone indeed gives a shit about farming dungeons.

But honestly, for those of us that liked proper world pvp like Nagrand and Wintergrasp, the hopes of any content that veers away from raiding died long, long ago.

[ls-]

If they are that easy, they should have them in random group finder.

They are on par w/ pre-nerf Cata heroics. It's proven that such difficulty isn't suitable for queueable content in WoW.

[Jewsco]

And that's the crux, you shouldn't HAVE to be in a Mythic / Raiding guild to enjoy WoW. Other MMORPGs don't force this. I'm in a RP guild that has probably 10 people online at peak

Then realize you are playing a MMO and expand your circle of friends. The point of a MMO is to play with other people if your circle isn't getting the job done it is time to actually talk to a few more or you are happy as is

[zerocarbs]

Kara for all intents and purposes is a 5-man raid. Participation will probably impact the future of queueable content.

Personally I think this could be a huge misstep. I've read reports of Kara taking anywhere from 3 to 5 hours for pugs to complete. The majority of the player base just doesn't have time for that shit anymore and aren't going to put up with it. Despite how ever many shut-ins on these forums love it.

"Overestimate"? That is funny giving that Blizzard collects all the numbers. They are not estimating. They certainly know it down to the last digit.

The first time there have been dungeons that weren't queueable since Wrath...? I think it's pretty safe to assume they don't know what the results will be.

[Jewsco]

They are on par w/ pre-nerf Cata heroics. It's proven that such difficulty isn't suitable for queueable content in WoW.

So you are saying blizz learned from the cata dungeons then? Do you not remember the out cry from them? Do you think the players are any better now? So no I don't want them queable

[lolpve]

eng game content with groups is what an mmo is about. if you really dislike the other players of wow that much and donty want to do mythics, please find a single player game you like and go play that. skyrim is out again and thats still fun.

this is an mmo, play with others or kindly go elsewhere

MMOs are not about instanced content. If you want to play dungeons and dragons then kindly go elsewhere, like diablo perhaps.

[Dilbon]

The only thing Blizzard can overestimate is how many people actually want to do forced group content.

[Dequanacus]

When has additional endgame content not been the norm for WoW (Or near any mmo for that matter)? We get an additional questing zone every now and again, but raids and dungeons were always the general content path until new xpac.

[Sinyc]

Or even raid...

90% of 7.1 is Mythic and Raid content and though I don't begrudge Blizzard adding content for Mythics and Raids but I worry they may be overestimating the numbers that actually do this regular. Now I know a number will say "If you don't like raiding then quit" and granted I imagine many well but that attitude will just cause massive sub drops and less $ for content

They are looking at and adding solo content. But you must remember this is a MMO. End game content is dungeons/raids. And they need to focus on end game for groups. Instead of listening to a vocal minority who doesn't understand how to play with other people.

[ls-]

So you are saying blizz learned from the cata dungeons then? Do you not remember the out cry from them? Do you think the players are any better now? So no I don't want them queable

I remember the outcry, and that's why I'm saying what I'm saying. Blizz learnt from Cata, and that's why M0s aren't queueable.

If Blizz had to make them queueable, they'd have to nerf them, but that's a waste of time/resources, cuz, IMHO, "natural nerf" will happen much faster, even really bad players will outgear M0s quite soon, and will be able to roflstomp through them.

[Deleted]

Then realize you are playing a MMO and expand your circle of friends. The point of a MMO is to play with other people if your circle isn't getting the job done it is time to actually talk to a few more or you are happy as is

I think you're stretching what an MMO is... Many other MMORPGs allow people to experience content with a small group of friends. What you're suggesting is either leave my guild of friends and join a guild of strangers for Mythics or not experience the expansions story and content whatsoever? Why should I now after 11 years suddenly need to change. If you genuinely believe that's good design then we'll never agree

- - - Updated - - -

They are looking at and adding solo content. But you must remember this is a MMO. End game content is dungeons/raids. And they need to focus on end game for groups. Instead of listening to a vocal minority who doesn't understand how to play with other people.

I already said I play with people

[grandgato]

Haha dude, welcome to the forums, where we, ordinary people, who has no ability to get large amount of metric data, can only talk about our personal experience If we all needed to have large amounts of data, no discussion would ever be had in here

I am just talking from my experience of being part of +75 mythic dungeons as a dps It is very rarely that my groups have taken more then 10 min to make, unless i started looking late in the night or if we asked for wierd requirements

Like i said, anecdote is anecdote. Some people are clearly struggling to get into pre-made groups through LFD and not having the same fortune you seem to repeatedly be experiencing.

They are on par w/ pre-nerf Cata heroics. It's proven that such difficulty isn't suitable for queueable content in WoW.

They are considerably easier then pre-nerf Cata heroics imo, coming from a healer.

When has additional endgame content not been the norm for WoW (Or near any mmo for that matter)? We get an additional questing zone every now and again, but raids and dungeons were always the general content path until new xpac.

And since 4.3 all dungeons and raids have been fully available via queue *albeit at an easier difficulty then non-queue*. Legion is the first time in years people have been locked out of PVE content if they don't want to establish a pre-formed group of some sort.

[ls-]

I think you're stretching what an MMO is... Many other MMORPGs allow people to experience content with a small group of friends. What you're suggesting is either leave my guild of friends and join a guild of strangers for Mythics or not experience the expansions story and content whatsoever? Why should I now after 11 years suddenly need to change. If you genuinely believe that's good design then we'll never agree

Which ones?

People repeatedly mention all these MMOs that allow people to do this and that, but even casual friendly FFXIV, the only MMO besides WoW that's still relevant, allows you to do so only to a certain extent.

[oldgeezer]

The point of a MMO is to play with other people

No, it really isn't.

The 'point', if there is one, is to enjoy your time in game. If you do that by playing with other people, great. If you do that by playing alone, also great.

[Hyve]

If you're a DK or DH and are overgeared for the content, then sure...you can solo damn near anything. Not sure what class your tank is, but you make it sound like you're one of those two.

Also, bosses aren't trash packs. They actually tend to be easier on the tank in most cases.

Not to mention, 835 isn't 820. It's very true that some packs can absolutely smash a tank at 820.

Demon Hunter, yes, but that's not the point. Going into Mythics at 820, use Crowd Controls, Interrupts & Stuns. Want to make sure they go even better, set up a Discord server, and have people join. Play with friends, set out which bosses you want Heroism on, and things go smoothly.

Don't get me wrong; I'm saying at no point are Mythics easy at 820 iLevel, I'm saying they're not as much of a challenge as some claim. There is literally only one add in the entire set of Mythic Dungeons which is painful, and that is the mini-boss in Vault of the Wardens, after the two trash packs at the start. The rest is just about Line of Sight, proper use of Cooldowns, Interrupts, Stuns, Snares and the like.

If you're struggling, that's understandable, but if you're failing, that's on you. Run the Mythics, do the World Quests, get gear, they become easier and you become better. Getting to 840 iLevel is very easy right now. There are plenty of groups I see in the Group Finder taking low iLevel players, so there is even a willingness from part of the community.

Hell, last night I went and did a Court of Stars with an 805 Mage in the team. He was obviously not very good, but he stayed alive, interrupted and did his job. People are too focused on the old style of "Pull everything, AoE down and lel". That's not how Mythics work. Take a compostion that deals with the fights, the adds, the trash and the challenges, and stuff dies easily.

[Deleted]

Which ones?

People repeatedly mention all these MMOs that allow people to do this and that, but even casual friendly FFXIV, the only MMO besides WoW that's still relevant, allows you to do so only to a certain extent.

Actually FFXIV is my example, I am in a RP FC and still can easily get into story content raids without the BS

[grandgato]

Which ones?

People repeatedly mention all these MMOs that allow people to do this and that, but even casual friendly FFXIV, the only MMO besides WoW that's still relevant, allows you to do so only to a certain extent.

The last two expansions for ToR have been largely solo and small group content. There hasn't been a new raid in years to my understanding.