No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[SirCowdog]

I know the quote perfectly. I watched them give it. It is a foundation for my "You can't use numbers to support any flight arguments since there are no numbers to be had" position.

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The point was to show neither you, or any of these guys know why anyone unsubbed. That's on Blizz and only they can verify. You have no facts, merely speculation about how many people quit and/or why they chose to do so.

Then the opposite is also true. You can't automatically assume that someone endorses or even likes no-flying simply because they're currently subbed.

This is the problem that Blizzard has created by ignoring all feedback on the subject other than cancelling a sub: Players are forced to decide between providing valid feedback and continuing to play the game.

[Dhrizzle]

Then the opposite is also true. You can't automatically assume that someone endorses or even likes no-flying simply because they're currently subbed.

This is the problem that Blizzard has created by ignoring all feedback on the subject other than cancelling a sub: Players are forced to decide between providing valid feedback and continuing to play the game.

Do you have any comments from Blizzard saying they ignore all feedback except sub cancellations? It seems like conspiracy level nonsense born of sour grapes because they decided to take the game in a direction you disagree with.

[Deleted]

Good post.

I find it surprising that you would give away legendary for flying, but it seems there are players out there that feel this way. Furthermore, there isn't much thinking involved if you cherry pick world quests you do based on the closest flight path.

WoW devs are looking at this metric and should be concerned that this is the type of unhealthy gameplay they are promoting with no flying world. And it is also causing players to avoid doing world content as they intended which makes some non raider players feel like they can't progress anymore.

With flying non raiding players could progress into non raiding acitivities but now that option is off the table till "mid expansion".

See, for me legendary drop is only a small part of the itemisation/loot "feature" while flying is a whole feature. I consider legendaries and orange epics with high ilvl and some small (although cool) ability on top of it. Not having a legendary means my char performs slightly worse. If legendaries doubled my DPS, then I would take them more seriously, but now I'm not that bothered by not having one in the moment. So while giving up a legendary wouldn't affect the way I play the game, giving up flying affects my gameplay considerably.

Basically the whole non-instanced gameplay (which is like 70-80% of my time now) is drastically hindered by not having flying. If I use flying as the metric here, then not having legendary item is like not having some small speed buff (and the cool ability to do loopings) while flying, while no flying is no flying. Entire feature gone. Legendaries simply don't reach the status of a feature for me. They are not special enough in their function, only in rarity. If legendaries did crazy things like in Diablo 3 or Borderlands, than I would feel differently about them.

[Mafic]

I'm compulsive enough to try and do all available World Quests in the day. It takes me between 2-4 hours to complete them all. If i flew around, it would probably take me 1-2 hours max. That would either free more time for me to play other characters (redoing the content) or let me sleep a bit extra hours.

I guess even if Pathfinder1 gave +50% mounting speed, i wouldnt save THAT much time due to terrain. the 10% is an insult and completely negligible.
Also, Broken isles are really small. You could fly from the edge of Azsuna to the other edge of Stormheim in 5 min max.

All those things make me believe that flying is going to come really late, around the 1st quarter of (2-3 months into) their LAST tier for this expansion.

Actually a 50% boost to ground mount speed would save you time and shows the WoW devs have the power to make a world of no flying work but the will power is simply not there. The 10% is not impactful and not fitting for a massive achieve like this for part 1 in my honest opinion.

As to your next point, you might be right, but I am operating on the info that the WoW devs when they said "mid expansion". I will accept what the WoW devs said at face value right now as the honest truth. But I am skeptical like you are, because the testing required to have flying read for mid expansion is fast approaching.

Sooner or later we will learn the truth. Good news or bad news all of it will come out.

[Okacz]

See, for me legendary drop is only a small part of the itemisation/loot "feature" while flying is a whole feature. I consider legendaries and orange epics with high ilvl and some small (although cool) ability on top of it. Not having a legendary means my char performs slightly worse. If legendaries doubled my DPS, then I would take them more seriously, but now I'm not that bothered by not having one in the moment. So while giving up a legendary wouldn't affect the way I play the game, giving up flying affects my gameplay considerably.

Basically the whole non-instanced gameplay (which is like 70-80% of my time now) is drastically hindered by not having flying. If I use flying as the metric here, then not having legendary item is like not having some small speed buff (and the cool ability to do loopings) while flying, while no flying is no flying. Entire feature gone. Legendaries simply don't reach the status of a feature for me. They are not special enough in their function, only in rarity. If legendaries did crazy things like in Diablo 3 or Borderlands, than I would feel differently about them.

Yeah. Flying was an entire feature of the game many players loved, that was used countless times to make great content. BC dailies involved flying, WotLK zones had flying tied to them, in MoP there was even a whole faction that allowed you to learn to fly another type of mount, and partake in flying race.

Removing flying removed all those possibilities, and all that could come. Maybe it's not like removing raiding or something, but it still was a big chunk of content that was thrown out of the window.

[Deleted]

Do you have any comments from Blizzard saying they ignore all feedback except sub cancellations? It seems like conspiracy level nonsense born of sour grapes because they decided to take the game in a direction you disagree with.

Sure... just because you like to twist everything to your likings doesn't mean it's a "conspiracy theory".
The only valid feedback they use is their data-collection: what content/class/specc is played the most/least, how many players stay or leave and why.

How do i know? Hmmmm let's see. There have been several threads in the official forum regarding flight in Wod before and after the launch. If Blizzard DID listen to feedback they would have NEVER decided that it would be a good idea to cut flight out of current and future content. But they did. And than they reversed it based on "feedback" other than the data they are collecting? Sure. People thinking that live in a fantasy world.

Especially they officially admitted that the number one reason for the biggest cancelation in Cata have been "hard heroics". And they have admitted that the number one reason for the biggest cancelation wave in MOP has been "reputation madness".

You can make up whatever you want, but since Blizzard didn't tell what has been the number one reason for people to quit during the biggest cancelation wave in WoW-history, it is equally true that it has been no-flight than it is not. But all hints point more towards "it has been no-flight".

Looking at all information we have your speculation is way more off than the speculation of people that say that Blizz changed their mind on flight because of a mass-cancelation.

Unless you have actual prove.... which i doubt because all i have seen from people denying the obvious is pure speculation up to a delirium-fantasy on why it can't be that so many people quit over such a thing like flying that Blizz would change their mind.

[quras]

Why the hell would anyone unsub from the game if they can't fly?

Read below.

It's so trivial I can't even describe it lol. SNIP for irrelevance....

And yet so important and game changing flying just had to be removed. LOL indeed.

Played beta, didn't enjoy being forced to use a ground mount, hated the feel of the game with a dragon that can't even fly oh but we can teleport somewhere every 5 minutes. Awful for immersion. Decided after that to not spend my money on something that wasn't fun for me, having to travel there on a ground mount and deal with the stupidity of it sucked all fun out of the activity at the destination.

That was me as well. ^
wow just isn't wow any longer when I cannot flying come max level or shortly after. The game just isn't good enough to warrant ground travel only. blizzard wants to waste my time, make better quests. Travel sure as hell doesn't need the annoyance. Make better, longer quests to kill my time. Me getting there doesn't need the hindrance after max level.

[satimy]

You obviously don't understand the concept. If you speed through and consume, then unsub, your sub is part time and really pays for nothing. If you stay subbed for 10 years, like myself, whether playing full time or part time, my sub pays for the content the other guy gets to speed through. It's a basic idea, but given the side of the argument on which you fall, I can see how you would be confused.

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I know the quote perfectly. I watched them give it. It is a foundation for my "You can't use numbers to support any flight arguments since there are no numbers to be had" position.

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The point was to show neither you, or any of these guys know why anyone unsubbed. That's on Blizz and only they can verify. You have no facts, merely speculation about how many people quit and/or why they chose to do so.

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Flying on Draenor was handled poorly. With Legion, I see no issues. At least we have clear communication in this expac.

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Kara 7.1 is NOTHING like Kara 2.2. Maybe you should play the game before passing your opinion off as false fact.

Smoking cigarettes must be good for you! It sure is strange that they got cancer at a higher rate

[Baine]

Why the hell would anyone unsub from the game if they can't fly? It's so trivial I can't even describe it lol. First world problems topkek

Well, in the long run, it becomes irritating when you have explored the whole zone, you know where to go and no flying is just a tedious restriction. I am not to the point of unsubscribing. I enjoy too much the game to consider leaving because of no flying (pros outweigh this con), but I begin to feel irritated by the inability to fly.

[Deleted]

Well, in the long run, it becomes irritating when you have explored the whole zone, you know where to go and no flying is just a tedious restriction. I am not to the point of unsubscribing. I enjoy too much the game to consider leaving because of no flying (pros outweigh this con), but I begin to feel irritated by the inability to fly.

Exactly. Any benefit no-flying had is already dead and gone.

[Mafic]

See, for me legendary drop is only a small part of the itemisation/loot "feature" while flying is a whole feature. I consider legendaries and orange epics with high ilvl and some small (although cool) ability on top of it. Not having a legendary means my char performs slightly worse. If legendaries doubled my DPS, then I would take them more seriously, but now I'm not that bothered by not having one in the moment. So while giving up a legendary wouldn't affect the way I play the game, giving up flying affects my gameplay considerably.

Basically the whole non-instanced gameplay (which is like 70-80% of my time now) is drastically hindered by not having flying. If I use flying as the metric here, then not having legendary item is like not having some small speed buff (and the cool ability to do loopings) while flying, while no flying is no flying. Entire feature gone. Legendaries simply don't reach the status of a feature for me. They are not special enough in their function, only in rarity. If legendaries did crazy things like in Diablo 3 or Borderlands, than I would feel differently about them.

Well this is that what I and many others have argued. Flying is treated as a niche feature by WoW devs when it is clearly a very integral feature for world exploration at end game.And it is being gated to be handed back to the player at the middle or end of the expansion which makes no sense.

Imagine if raiders were awarded Emerald Nightmare loot not until August of 2017 or arena players were handed their titles for the first PVP season by August of 2017?

This is what they are doing to flying and it make zero sense.

[-Joker-]

What about someone who actively buys gold through tokens. Would you value the person who buys gold as being better than someone who plays for content and earns their own rewards? They're contributing more to the game, wouldn't you say?

Paying for content you don't enjoy or are satisfied by does not make the game better. That's literally being part of the problem.

I have also received a full year free subscription when I was working at Activision, during Wrath's launch. That was the best expansion I had ever played, in no part by the fact it was a company gift. And then I was part of the Annual pass, and it was the full year deadzone of Fall of Deathwing. After the Annual Pass ended, I seriously quit WoW (not the usual monthly breaks). Since then, I've only been subbed for a month here and there. So for my unusual case, the game was at its best when I didn't have to pay for it, and only kept getting better. The game became absolutely dreadful when I was locked in to a sub that I truly wanted to quit from. I'm actually surprised you brought this up as an argument, because I laughed out loud as I read it.

If money is what you think makes the game good, you can always buy tokens and make yourself feel like you're contributing to a better game.

Since you seem to misunderstand most of what I say, and I am tired of repeating myself and simplifying for folks like yourself, It's probably best if I go my own way in the thread and disregard these sorts of responses. As for people who purchase tokens to sell for gold, they too are helping the game by limiting the amount of unauthorized gold selling in game. But this topic is about the lack of flight in Legion, and the 8 people who are upset about it.

[Thimagryn]

Since you seem to misunderstand most of what I say, and I am tired of repeating myself and simplifying for folks like yourself, It's probably best if I go my own way in the thread and disregard these sorts of responses. As for people who purchase tokens to sell for gold, they too are helping the game by limiting the amount of unauthorized gold selling in game. But this topic is about the lack of flight in Legion, and the 8 people who are upset about it.

If multiple people are pointing out the flaws in your argument, perhaps it's not a case of misunderstanding on our part, but miscommunication on yours. Maybe you would rethink your comments about speeding through content and its adverse effects on WoW. Or thinking that subbing to WoW would somehow make the game better for people who want flight back. Just a thought.

[-Joker-]

We haven't received clear communications. Clear communications would be, to earn flight in Legion you have to do x, then y, then z, which will be available to do on the following dates.

Right now all they've given us is "Pathfinder part 1 is the first part...and we'll tell you the rest of it soon™" - That's almost exactly the same thing they did in Draenor. My fear is that they'll let us "earn" flight half way through the last tier, right around the point where you were done doing everything anyway, or already unsubbed because you bored of doing everything for the millionth time stuck on your ground mount.

What we have now compared to what we got with WoD is definitely Clear communication.

Draenor:

"You'll get flight after an epic questline"
"Uh, actually, no flight for you since it trivializes things"
"We might add flight if people really want it"
"Uh, actually, we voted that down too and are just going to move forward without it"
"Game is much better without it"
"This is how it will be going forward in future expacs"
"Uh, actually, we just looked at sub numbers, so here is flight and a dozen other appeasements to appeal to players of all types"

Legion:

"There will be flight, and you will complete a pathfinder achievement to unlock it. Unlike Draenor, you can start working on it at launch, and we will reveal the remaining steps mid-expansion."

Anyone who does not see that Legion has been far smoother than Draenor obviously never played on Draenor, but simply unsubbed and bitched about it in mob mentality. Did Draenor suck? Absolutely. Was it flight related? Not for me. Why did Draenor suck?

- World of Solocraft: They want us to get out and experience a dangerous world, yet give us our own small town to AFK in, use our AH (if you had lvl 3 Trading post like me), queue for instances or LFR, fish, gather (mine and garden), pet battle dailies, etc.

- Lack of world content: Once Pathfinder was done, there was literally nothing left to do. Even with flight, I would have been flying over a world where there wasn't jack shit to experience.

- Bad content: 6.1 should have been a decent sized content patch, instead, we got Selfies integrated with Twitter

- Horrible lore/stories: There was so much more that could have been done in the open world, but all of the really interesting storylines (except maybe Yrel) were all played out in raids (what few there were)

- more Orcs: Every zone looked the same, except maybe Spires. Ride through and see the same orcs, doing the same things, with different scenery. Nothing interesting about it at all

Draenor was horrible for a hundred other reasons, none of which are related to flight. So when people tell me something sucks because of the lack of flight, I have to wonder about Cataclysm. I enjoyed that expac, and not because of flight. I loved that the world got a facelift, and I finally got to play a Worgen. This was an expansion that fucked up the night sky just to allow us to fly on Azeroth. Flight is nice to have, but it is hardly the end all, be all of an MMO. If you think riding a dragon > playing the content, then this is just not your genre of game.

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If multiple people are pointing out the flaws in your argument, perhaps it's not a case of misunderstanding on our part, but miscommunication on yours. Maybe you would rethink your comments about speeding through content and its adverse effects on WoW. Or thinking that subbing to WoW would somehow make the game better for people who want flight back. Just a thought.

Yes, multiple pro-flight extremists patting each other on the back and all supporting the theory that the guy enjoying the game must be the crazy one = my arguments being flawed. Have a nice day.

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New Karazhan to old Karazhan is what Heroic Deadmines that they added in Cataclysm is to classic Deadmines. Boss fights and loot are new, most other things - scenery, lore, characters - are the same. The amount of novelty in new Karazhan is pretty limited, it is nowhere near what it would have been if they did a new instance. Not saying they should always do new instances, but don't overestimate a reskin, even a good one. It's a reskin.

If you were expecting a new castle, you were bound to be let down. Naxx was a reskin, but is arguably one of the more popular raids from Wrath next to Ulduar. I never understood the sense of entitlement from some of the posters in this thread. "We deserve flight" "Stop being lazy and reskinning content" "We want everything to be new so we can fly over it and ignore most of it".

[Thimagryn]

Yes, multiple pro-flight extremists patting each other on the back and all supporting the theory that the guy enjoying the game must be the crazy one = my arguments being flawed. Have a nice day.

LOL! I'm literally only pointing out your erroneous arguments that speed runners cause problems and subscription money fixes them. But yes, blame it on the 'pro flight extremists' causing your arguments to be flawed.

[SirCowdog]

Do you have any comments from Blizzard saying they ignore all feedback except sub cancellations? It seems like conspiracy level nonsense born of sour grapes because they decided to take the game in a direction you disagree with.

Lets see....Blizzard says they're pretty happy with no-flying, and won't change their stance unless they're faced with "Overwhelming feedback" to the opposite. WoD goes forward with no flying, to the point that they eventually state "There will never be flying ever again in WoW". Subs drop to an alltime low. 2 weeks later they reverse their decision.

In regards to flight, Blizzard has been told time after time after time that no-flying isn't something that people necessarily want. Not everyone, obviously, but a LOT of people. Blizzard themselves have stated that both the community and the devs themselves are 50/50 on the topic. There as been persistent feedback against the idea since its original announcement. Throughout that entire time Blizzard has ignored that feedback right up until they had no choice because people were unsubbing. We have anecdotal evidence of GMs contacting players who cancelled with the reason of "No flying". Pro-flight players have been constantly called a "vocal minority" and dismissed as liars, stupid casuals, and crybabies.

The only real feedback, therefore, is to speak with one's wallet.


Now, that may not be absolute, super hardcore proof, but it's extremely suggestive. Without access to Blizzard's inner workings and data, all we as players can do is make educated guesses and read follow the trends in behavior. And there's so much circumstantial evidence here that it starts to become ridiculous to NOT realize what's going on.

Besides which, without that same hardcore proof, you have nothing to refute my opinion with either. And in this case, my statement seems likely. You want to call it conspiracy theory? Fine. By then that enables me to fire back and call the opposite stance Blind Blizzard loyalty and senseless fanaticism. At which point it becomes a flamewar rather than a discussion.

[bubbadubba]

Yeah. Flying was an entire feature of the game many players loved, that was used countless times to make great content. BC dailies involved flying, WotLK zones had flying tied to them, in MoP there was even a whole faction that allowed you to learn to fly another type of mount, and partake in flying race.

Removing flying removed all those possibilities, and all that could come. Maybe it's not like removing raiding or something, but it still was a big chunk of content that was thrown out of the window.

I hated the TBC and Wrath dailies that dealt with flying... All you did was zig zag back and forth or fly straight up in the air.

[-Joker-]

Definitively not true for me. When I am done with content on my main and I have time to spare, then I play alts. Alts do more for the longevity of content than no flying could ever do. Playing alts should be encouraged more, not less.

And Blizz should have to hear the whining about how much more fun content would be with flight enabled? Either you enjoyed the content the first time, or you didn't. Suffering the same content over and over is the price of playing alts which is why I have a main... and a single alt. One Alliance, one Horde. I just want to see the story from both sides. Flight is a perk for me, not a way of gaming.

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You're also pro flight! Amazing how you don't even realize that.

Yes I am. I want flight at lvl 1 as a 10 year veteran. I also think it should be account wide so the 310% speed is shared with both characters (and future alts I may or may not roll). I want to make a flight switch (like a light switch) for older raids like Ulduar and Firelands, making it easier to just farm bosses. Now, ask Blizz if what I want is good for THE game, or simply good for MY game. Yeah, I'm pro-flight. But, I am also intelligent enough to know what I am buying before I buy it, and not demand the company to reformat it so it suits my play-style. I'm not going to call Nintendo and tell them to add the raccoon suit to the original Super Mario because that was more fun than fireballs. Why would I do the same to Blizz? Either I like the game, or I don't. Either I like the content, or I don't. How I travelled didn't make garrisons suck any less.

[SirCowdog]

- Lack of world content: Once Pathfinder was done, there was literally nothing left to do. Even with flight, I would have been flying over a world where there wasn't jack shit to experience.

How will that actually be different from Legion Pathfinder? o_O

[tikcol]

I wish they would just remove flying altogether.

Flying isnt good for the game.