FoJ VS Zeal

[Deleted]

No, it didn't change.

Your character and what is good for it did. At certain tresholds some talents will always outperform others.

[Vuagnon]

Haste only starts lowering your downtime when you get over 100 % (because that's the GCD cap). Until that point your downtime is not affected by haste at all.

You are correct. Let me ask my question again though because it wasn't what I wanted to mean.

At which haste percentage would Zeal become as fluid as Crusader Strike? Or in other words drop below 3 sec cooldown. Is there a formula to calculate this?

[Morally Grey Storm]

You are correct. Let me ask my question again though because it wasn't what I wanted to mean.

At which haste percentage would Zeal become as fluid as Crusader Strike? Or in other words drop below 3 sec cooldown. Is there a formula to calculate this?

at 17% it's 3.84sec for me.
Go figure

[snackfeat]

I have both legendary cloak and the ring, FoJ is way ahead for me.

[Vuagnon]

Just specced into Zeal and did around 340k overall dps in my last dungeon. It's a huge change from 250k. Looks like I have to say goodbye to Crusader Strike for now.

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at 17% it's 3.84sec for me.
Go figure

I have it as 3.73 sec at 20.62%. The formula definitely ain't a linear one.

[Balinos]

I have both legendary cloak and the ring, FoJ is way ahead for me.

Lucky bastard XD.

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Just specced into Zeal and did around 340k overall dps in my last dungeon. It's a huge change from 250k. Looks like I have to say goodbye to Crusader Strike for now.

Dont be a noob. Of course that in a dungeon u wil lget more dps because Zeal is cleave. u must see in like a Nythendra fight if u do more deeps.
The deal is that Zeal got 1 sec more of cd than CS. Zeal does more deeps than CS, but CS will be used more due to 1 sec less cd. In single target bosses TFoJ is better. For the Eye Zeal or GJ may be better for killing bloods faster. In Xavius, since the tanks will tank boss and add together, zeal is definally better.

[Vuagnon]

Lucky bastard XD.

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Dont be a noob. Of course that in a dungeon u wil lget more dps because Zeal is cleave. u must see in like a Nythendra fight if u do more deeps.
The deal is that Zeal got 1 sec more of cd than CS. Zeal does more deeps than CS, but CS will be used more due to 1 sec less cd. In single target bosses TFoJ is better. For the Eye Zeal or GJ may be better for killing bloods faster. In Xavius, since the tanks will tank boss and add together, zeal is definally better.

Since timing is all that matters in m+, zeal is better for me right now because it increases my overall dps. The rotation can get clunky at times but I'll have to deal with it.

[Balinos]

For dungeons Zeal is definally better

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well then there's GJ talent on the very same tier, which enhances our AOE capabilities tremendously.
I firmly believe in higher M+ GJ is better then both Z-l or TFOJ.

[Lucetia]

Well then there's GJ talent on the very same tier, which enhances our AOE capabilities tremendously.
I firmly believe in higher M+ GJ is better then both Z-l or TFOJ.

Out of curiosity, how does GJ make AoE a lot better? It's probably a stupid question but when I tested out GJ and Zeal in Mythic+, Zeal was doing a lot better. Only thing I noticed was GJ putting the dot on another target so they get Divine Storm boost, but that was about it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Out of curiosity, how does GJ make AoE a lot better? It's probably a stupid question but when I tested out GJ and Zeal in Mythic+, Zeal was doing a lot better. Only thing I noticed was GJ putting the dot on another target so they get Divine Storm boost, but that was about it.

Read the tooltip, duh
With DH currently bugged you are forced into BoWrath , therefore you will be swimming in HoPo, ergo you will spam a fething awful lot of DStorms.

GJ always crits, hits 4 targets and buffs DStorm damage.

[Lucetia]

Read the tooltip, duh
With DH currently bugged you are forced into BoWrath , therefore you will be swimming in HoPo, ergo you will spam a fething awful lot of DStorms.

GJ always crits, hits 4 targets and buffs DStorm damage.

Well only crits if they are above 50% :P But yeah I've been using BoW over DH (just feels extremely awkward especially on bosses). Yet I'm not swimming in enough HP to make it overcome Zeal so that's why I was wondering. Also, I've read the tooltip, just personal experiences show otherwise :P

[Morally Grey Storm]

Well only crits if they are above 50% :P But yeah I've been using BoW over DH (just feels extremely awkward especially on bosses). Yet I'm not swimming in enough HP to make it overcome Zeal so that's why I was wondering. Also, I've read the tooltip, just personal experiences show otherwise :P

Might have something to do with your gear.
It is currently agreed that for higher M+ , a different gearset is required, with heavy leaning on mastery.
I so happen to be very lucky with drops(not) , so my mastery is currently at 24% and GJ works quite nicely.

Also, an GJ cast it's somewhere about 1kk per cast above 50% hp on a thrashpack.
a ~1kk worth of damage within a gcd, on a ~10 sec cd.

[Lucetia]

Might have something to do with your gear.
It is currently agreed that for higher M+ , a different gearset is required, with heavy leaning on mastery.
I so happen to be very lucky with drops(not) , so my mastery is currently at 24% and GJ works quite nicely.

Also, an GJ cast it's somewhere about 1kk per cast above 50% hp on a thrashpack.
a ~1kk worth of damage within a gcd, on a ~10 sec cd.

Hm...well here are my stats. I haven't seen anything with mastery for M+ (though I haven't looked extensively either). So I've been running my usual gearset.

Which puts me at

Haste: 21.64%
Crit: 27.58%
Mastery: 19.28%
Versatility: 4.29%

That's before I eat Crit food, but apparently I need to switch back to fireballs one because I've been hearing that one does a bit more. If mastery is better I might have to swap some gear around as I have several pieces for prot/holy too.

[Balinos]

I still prefer Zeal, for boss fights it no doubt is better than GJ. But GJ is better for trash pulls.

[GT4]

It is currently agreed that for higher M+ , a different gearset is required, with heavy leaning on mastery.

Agreed by whom? The fastest Ret Mythic+15 clears on Warcraftlogs have between 1.8k and 4.1k mastery each.

[statphantom]

so to summerize, it seems that FoJ becomes better when you have the legendary cloak due to faster TV's and also better in most dungeons because it's most damage for 1-3 targets but in some mythic+ and high mythic+ then GJ as it is better for 4+ targets? obviously varying by gear but for a quick rule.

[Tradu]

You are correct. Let me ask my question again though because it wasn't what I wanted to mean.

At which haste percentage would Zeal become as fluid as Crusader Strike? Or in other words drop below 3 sec cooldown. Is there a formula to calculate this?

At 50% haste it'd be 3 seconds, because the way cooldown recovery time stuff gets calculated is the same as how the GCD gets calculated(baseCD/1+haste, so 4.5/1.5 for Zeal to reach 3 seconds)

[Vuagnon]

At 50% haste it'd be 3 seconds, because the way cooldown recovery time stuff gets calculated is the same as how the GCD gets calculated(baseCD/1+haste, so 4.5/1.5 for Zeal to reach 3 seconds)

This is what I was looking for, thank you.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Agreed by whom? The fastest Ret Mythic+15 clears on Warcraftlogs have between 1.8k and 4.1k mastery each.

oh I dunno, by the nerdy guys who do the theorycraft things ?)