Flying 7.2 Confirmed

[rda]

I will bet 500k gold that 8.0 flying is the same path as Legion, and double that with 9.0 having the same as well. There is no change coming.

Does reduced time from launch to flight qualify as change? If so, I am marking this post for future reference.

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I will say this, however. They are beginning to be kind of late with 7.1.5. It's been about 10 days since Blizzcon and today's patch notes mention 7.1.5 which is kind of a bad sign in that it suggests that we might have to wait one or more weeks ("Death Knight ... Developers Notes: Frost Death Knight damage ... We plan to make a broader set of changes for them (and other tanks) in Patch 7.1.5." - you only mention 7.1.5 if it comes later and you want to convey that yes, it will indeed come, just wait a little more).

[Deleted]

An interview, from a 3rd party site, which you and your crew claim to be just as valid evidence as any post on BNet in blue is "lying through my teeth"? Sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night. Ian H gave an interview. Stated there were 11M people at Legion's launch and goes on to say the bulk of those players are still enjoying Legion. I'm sorry it doesn't fit the Mafic narrative that the sky is falling and 5M+ players unsubbed thanks to a lack of flight. If you spent less time swallowing conspiracy theories and believing lies, maybe you could come to grips with Legion being a reasonably successful expac. I think it is easier for you to just follow the pro-flight extremists and complain about a problem that doesn't exist while making shit up along the way to support them "buckling" and giving into adding flight.

there is no crew. I don't need backup, where are we? Still in High school?
You are lying through your teeth because you made it into a bluepost, something that was clearly an interpretation. Blizzard doesn't publish anymore and they won't in the future. So there is NO evidence what so ever for those fantasy "11 mio. subs" you would like to see in your wildest dreams. So you are the only one making shit up here.

Flight is coming back so that is a good one. Does it have a impact on the sub-numbers? We don't know. Neither do we know how many people quit over no flight during WoD, BUT there are far more hints that it have been enough or Blizz to change stance than not. so YES, there must have been an big drop because of flying. There is nothing else that qualifies for that change. Oh you mean feedback? Strange that feedback didn't change their stance the whole two years in advance to this incident and somehow they thought it is a good idea to cut it out of the game. So "Feedback" in forms of arguments and forum posts is out of the window, feedback in terms of cancelation pretty much did the trick most likely.

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Direction yes, but development-wise implementing flying earlier or even near immediately in the future would depend very much on how much the current content supports flying or not.
Is part of the delay to actually let them make the content flying ready.

Updating content designed without flying in mind such as Draenor was a good example of where stuff had to be fixed.
It was designed not only to be accessible from the ground, but to only be that.
Invisible walls, incomplete terrain etc that would otherwise be inaccessible to players.

There is no problem with flight. If they think that navigating terrain, dodging annoying mobs and find a long winding path it is clearly what is wrong here: It is the kind of content, not the way people get to where they want.

As i said a hundred times before: if there is fun compelling content the people like to do (and do again) then it doesn't matter if they ride, run, walk, crawl, swim or fly to where the content is. In fact, there is content that isn't even remotely important to the games set "end game goals" that gets used less but seemed to be actual a fun activity that held players in the past: archeology and pet battles.

How about real puzzels, treasure hunting with randomly appearing starting notes and randomly changing way points instead of those (more or less badly made) jumping puzzles. Hunting rares but instead of killing them on the spot make them have phases where they try to run and hide or calling for reinforcements. And for the PvP people, things like the towers in Plague lands or out side of Auchidun (outland), the three fortresses on Hellfire, maybe even some capture the flag mechanics like the on in silithus where you can't mount up while brining stuff from a to b. There is just sooooo much Blizz could expend on and evolve game mechanics instead of just ditching them.

It is not flight that is the problem, it is fun and compelling content like interesting and fun side activities.

[Thimagryn]

- Actually, it's not. If it is delayed, you get to use it for 12+ months. If it is REMOVED, you never get to use it. Is a child kept from you via 100% custody about the same or worse than joint custody? You are putting WAY too much emphasis on a travel mechanic.

I don't know what child custody has to do with it, but this isn't a legal issue, so I think you're putting way too much emphasis on it by even asserting such a comparison. Yes, it's a travel mechanic, one that can potentially save hours/days/weeks of time played. As I've gotten older, I value the time I spend playing games much more than I used to because I can only dedicate so much to it. Gone are the days where I can spend hours grinding away in prep of a couple raid nights a week. When I get a chance to play, I play smarter, not harder. Flying is important to me so a 6 month delay is 6 months I'd consider waiting on.

Travel time is filler. Time gating is arbitrary. If you played games other than WoW, you can see that a lot of these pacing mechanics are not necessary to have fun. Flight paths are great for leveling, but after you hit max you should not need to rely on them as the primary method of travel. They should be the secondary choice. Other games like FF14 and Guild Wars use a Waypoint system (similar to Diablo) that gets you where you need to without taking control away from your character. I don't see this option working for WoW, and flight travel has always been their unique answer to this system of getting you where you need to go. You don't get instantly transported the way other games have it, but you are in full control of where you go and you aren't taken out of the experience. That's what I consider immersion.

- Flight paths are workarounds are PART of the game. If you want to play Super Mario, you get stuck breaking bricks and dealing with the occasional fireball. You don't just ask Nintendo to put the raccoon suit inside every brick.

Super mario doesn't have filler the same way WoW does. It embraces a completely different moment-to-moment experience than WoW does. You're in full control of your character throughout the entire play through. Now imagine if we had that in WoW...

- The LFD and LFR systems are there to match players who are on the same level, style, and dungeon. For groups who simply want to play with friends and guildmates, there is a summoning stone. LFD and LFR were not developed to expedite travel. They were meant to ease the burden of LFG in Trade chat, often begging, and then running back up to summon hoping your party had not fallen apart in that 20-40 minute time frame.

Yet it does ease the burden all the same, whether *you* believe it was meant to or not. Flight wasn't meant to trivialize all other means of travel, but it also does that. In both systems, they have trivialized most methods of grouping that came before it, to the point where many don't feel there is a choice to group for dungeons outside of the LFG mechanic (including with friends). Because this immersion/social aspect is being trivialized, should it also be removed/gated because of it's unparalleled convenience?

- The benefit of limitations is playing the game, and not just zipping through it. Maybe once we get back to a time when content speaks for itself (as Legion is beginning) to do, they might revert the change, but I doubt it given the success they've had so far in Legion with stalling flight.

Again, Pathfinder is the gate that prevents people from zipping through anything. What we're talking about is repeated content being assisted by flight. I see no reason why you need to stick to using ground mounts and flight paths just to get you to the area you pick squirrels and crack nuts. What content did you make irrelevant by getting there more efficiently?

- Uh, duh. They have to encourage feedback, and be genuine and friendly about it. Saying, "Either pay to play or stfu and go away" would hardly sell copies of the game. When are you happier with someone? When they say yes (even if they never do it), or when they say no and shut you down? That's rhetorical. I already know how every person would answer it.

I don't know where you're going with this. Try working in the games industry, maybe you'll begin to realize how important feedback is to game development. This isn't your relationship with your wife we're talking about.

- The plan to remove it failed. But it IS a failure to grasp when they lean closer to "remove it" than they do to "unlock at the start with level cap". I will bet 500k gold that 8.0 flying is the same path as Legion, and double that with 9.0 having the same as well. There is no change coming. The change is here. Now the question is, can players grow a pair and deal with the decision, or are the entitled liberals going to rattle their sabers anytime Blizz does something in their own game? Sadly, I know the answer to that too.

So you do admit that Blizzard did change their stance from what they originally planned to do. You simply don't admit that it was due to player influence, be it complaint or criticism. You think Blizzard does this all on their own whim regardless of player intervention. I can understand the notion, but I also know it's factually wrong. Just pointing that out to you.

Personally, I focus on possibility/plausibility over whether or not it actually happens. Is flight going to change? I don't know. I wouldn't be able to answer that because I'm not on the dev team nor a psychic. Hell, over a year ago I probably wouldn't have been able to tell you Demon Hunters would be playable. But I still made an argument for their possibility. And I'll continue to make that argument for better flight implementation in the future. You can keep the 500k gold. Unfortunately, WoW currency can't buy back time spent on filler content.

[rda]

BTW.

@Flying Monkey,
@Eapoe,
@Dhrizzle,

Why are you guys continuing to "discuss" the topic of flying ad-nausea when the debate is settled already? We get flying in 7.2. Why the fuck is there still discussion on this?

(I hope it is now clear how stupid posts like this are. If you have something to say, say it, otherwise don't say anything. Simple.)

[Deleted]

Blizzard say, that they remove flying, cuz flying kills their combat mechanics. Well, the problem is in fact, that it's combat mechanics, that are broken, and flying only fixes them. I wouldn't mind not having flying, if...I wouldn't need to mount every time, I need to move to next mob, cuz all nearby mobs within 100m are dead. As I've already said, I was thinking about idea behind no flying a lot. And I tested this idea a lot too. So. I come to, let's say, some questing zone. How should combat mechanics work? I should kill one mob, then walk to another. And then to another. Mounts shouldn't be even needed. Any mounts. That's how real RPG should work. But how game mechanics work in Wow? I kill one mob and...no mobs in sight, lol. What should I do? I should mount and go searching for ones, that are alive. And this process becomes EXTREMELY ANNOYING, if you don't have flying mount, cuz >50% of your paid game time is wasted on moving from one mob to another, instead of actually playing the game.

And I should say, that if something won't change, then that means, that I've got stuck in Tanaan forever. I have, all I need there. One hour of enjoyable content a day - it's all, I need. Garrisons are still good, despite of all nerfs. I still like to level them. And I still need to build Shipyard to be able to get LFR trinkets. Tanaan content is good. It takes about month to grind full Baleful for one character. And I have plenty of characters. Also I have plenty of minor content still not done, like secondary professions on all characters, except main one. So, it's months and years of content. And... You would laugh, but there is plenty of players, who haven't bought Legion and even Heroic 5ppls - are still active in WOD! Queue is 2-5 minutes long for Tank! No need to spend 50$ on some crappy new xpack. As I've said, I don't need much content - may be 1-2 hours a day. But this content should be enjoyable. So it's big mistake to try to provide "plenty" of content, but content, I don't enjoy.

P.S. If Legion is for TBC fanboys, who likes to "earn" flying, then I hope next xpack will finally be for Wrath fanboys, like me, who prefer flying to be unlocked on level x8.

Well, it depends on the quest. If your quest speaks about some kind of group / pack or lair / base, that means a social or geographical gathering of mobs, then you are right and they should be clustered. Some quests are more of searching and hunting down some kind of a rare prey. These could involve moving around in search for said prey - but I don't get the logic of flying damaging this questflow. If the difficulty is in finding these rare prey mobs, then it should be there no matter if you ride around or fly. The difficulty in getting rare things is set by the respawn timer and the amount of such mobs in a zone, probably also shared respawn spots.

The only quest design where no-flying matters is the one we currently see in Suramar City, where you have to avoid moving detectors (or CC them if you are able to do that without getting in combat). This is the only mechanic which gets broken by players flying over the detectors. This mechanic could have been preserved easily by declaring the area under the Suramar energy shield a no-flying zone. Everything else is pure harassment.

[-Joker-]

BTW.

@Flying Monkey,
@Eapoe,
@Dhrizzle,

Why are you guys continuing to "discuss" the topic of flying ad-nausea when the debate is settled already? We get flying in 7.2. Why the fuck is there still discussion on this?

(I hope it is now clear how stupid posts like this are. If you have something to say, say it, otherwise don't say anything. Simple.)

You're right. Clearly our opinions (everyone in this thread) don't matter since we get flight in 7.2. Perhaps a mod will go ahead and lock flying threads until 8.0. Great suggestion!

Maybe Gheco or Moana will come lock down the thread for us.

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Does reduced time from launch to flight qualify as change? If so, I am marking this post for future reference.

Quit playing dumb. But just in case, let me clarify for those who actually are dumb:

The change is: They will revert back to allowing flight at max level at launch.

Clear enough?

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there is no crew. I don't need backup, where are we? Still in High school?
You are lying through your teeth

Yet you insist on fighting with me. Perhaps you should just add me to ignore.

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So you do admit that Blizzard did change their stance from what they originally planned to do. You simply don't admit that it was due to player influence, be it complaint or criticism.

I snipped everything else, cause I am tired of circle jerking ad nauseum. Blizz makes changes for 2 reasons, the same as any business:

1. They wanna try something new
or
2. They need to change what is affecting their bottom line

We got flight in WoD for reasons only they can express. For you, me, or anyone else to pretend we can specifically narrow those reasons is ludicrous. Their subs were dropping (which they admitted) and there were a dozen appeasements added to 6.2 (which those of us who were subbed saw physically).

So, on that note... I am done with this topic. We get flight back in 7.2 and I will take to the skies. Hopefully, I don't pass any whiners in the clouds.

[rda]

Quit playing dumb. But just in case, let me clarify for those who actually are dumb:

The change is: They will revert back to allowing flight at max level at launch.

Clear enough?

Yes, clear. Then I guess you will technically be able to say "no change" for quite some time and keep talking about "no change" even if we get flying two weeks after launch. Whatever floats your boat.

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You're right. Clearly our opinions (everyone in this thread) don't matter since we get flight in 7.2.

It looks like my opinion did matter after all. I hope it will continue to matter. It looks like yours - with respect to flying - didn't matter, that's true. No tongue in cheek.

[Hopebringer]

God...you don't know the irony of that sentence.

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Reality check: People like different things. You're not required to like the same things, or even understand that like.





Are they required to give a fuck? And did you ever consider that they DO give a fuck about the world aspect because flying was part of that world for longer than it wasn't?

I didn't know that flying, in Legion, was part of the world longer than it wasn't. Guess I'm missing some objectives to have flying sooner than most. Nor did I know that people would play an MMORPG and avoid the fundamental social aspects of seeing other players in the world. Perhaps you are playing the wrong type of game.

I understand people like different things and while it's not a requirement that they care about the social/world aspect I find it hilarious to simply disregard that because there's no flying. Quite ridiculous actually.

[SirBeef]

I didn't know that flying, in Legion, was part of the world longer than it wasn't. Guess I'm missing some objectives to have flying sooner than most. Nor did I know that people would play an MMORPG and avoid the fundamental social aspects of seeing other players in the world. Perhaps you are playing the wrong type of game.

I understand people like different things and while it's not a requirement that they care about the social/world aspect I find it hilarious to simply disregard that because there's no flying. Quite ridiculous actually.

Flying is a luxury. It always has been outside of the few locations in game that you needed it to reach. Without flying those would have had a FP or a portal. Blizzard had always had the stance that flying makes the pre level cap game easier by being able to skip out on the design they wanted to funnel players through. That is why it was unlocked at max level, outside of Druid flight form, cold weather and old world flying. There is nothing wrong with making players play the game is it was intended by the devs. They could have completely removed it in WoD, which I was fully expecting. They saw the ire of players. I think the path finder requirement is a fair middle ground. Players cannot ignore the game Blizzards wants us to play if they want to fly.

Ghostcrawler even said that if he could go back and change one thing, it would have been to keep flying in TBC only becasue it trivialized game play, but that Pandora's box was opened and would be difficult to close. Now Blizzard knows they cannot remove flying. They just want us to go through some hoops to experience the game as they want us to before allowing us the privilege to fly. I think the biggest issue from reading these threads for the past two years really is time management. People want to maximize their play time and feel they cannot without flying.

[WowIsDead64]

Well, it depends on the quest. If your quest speaks about some kind of group / pack or lair / base, that means a social or geographical gathering of mobs, then you are right and they should be clustered. Some quests are more of searching and hunting down some kind of a rare prey. These could involve moving around in search for said prey - but I don't get the logic of flying damaging this questflow. If the difficulty is in finding these rare prey mobs, then it should be there no matter if you ride around or fly. The difficulty in getting rare things is set by the respawn timer and the amount of such mobs in a zone, probably also shared respawn spots.

The only quest design where no-flying matters is the one we currently see in Suramar City, where you have to avoid moving detectors (or CC them if you are able to do that without getting in combat). This is the only mechanic which gets broken by players flying over the detectors. This mechanic could have been preserved easily by declaring the area under the Suramar energy shield a no-flying zone. Everything else is pure harassment.

1) There is no such kind of quests in Wow as "hunting quests". All mobs have predetermined spawn points/moving routes. And even if "quest helper" doesn't show this spawn/routes on your map, so you should "explore" them, then you can always go to WowHead, if you don't care about exploration.

2) Suramar - is special lore/exploration location, where there is special kind of quests - lore/exploration quests. And lore/exploration quests - are special quests for specific kind of players - for so called "Explorers".

Conclusion. Majority of "no-flying" quests are intended to be done by so called "explorers" - special kind of players, who care about lore and exploration. But not all players are explorers. Same, as with PVP - not all players like PVP. And I don't know, why ALL players have to be forced to play this way? Ok. Make Suramar no-flying zone - and I simply won't even set a foot to there, as it happened with Wintergrasp, Tol'Barad, IOT and TI. I wouldn't do it anyway, cuz I simply don't like lore/exploration content. But all of a sudden Blizzard need to force this kind of gameplay on ALL players, even if they don't like to play this way.

Example: collecting treasures in WOD. I was forced to do this content. But it was extremely silly experience - I had to go to WowHead to find out, where every treasure is. Just because exploring isn't for me. Same as reading quests - that's why we have integrated "quest helper" in this game. And I have a question. What kind of logic was behind this crap? Did Blizzard really think, that such kind of gameplay was enjoyable for me? Did Blizzard think, that if I would try this content, I would all of a sudden start to like it? Or Blizzard thought, that if I'm "Achiever", then "achieving" some "hard goal" would be enjoyable for me, even if it's gated behind content, that isn't intended for me? Nonsense. Playing content, that isn't intended for you, causes one thing only - burnout.

The reason, why I haven't bought Legion is simple - too much forcing. Forced exploration, forced socialization, forced competition, forced PVP, forced grind, forced RNG, forced, forced, forced... I don't want to be forced to do something, sorry.

[Thimagryn]

1. They wanna try something new
or
2. They need to change what is affecting their bottom line

We got flight in WoD for reasons only they can express. For you, me, or anyone else to pretend we can specifically narrow those reasons is ludicrous. Their subs were dropping (which they admitted) and there were a dozen appeasements added to 6.2 (which those of us who were subbed saw physically).

So, on that note... I am done with this topic. We get flight back in 7.2 and I will take to the skies. Hopefully, I don't pass any whiners in the clouds.

You were supposed to be done with this topic 3 weeks ago. You're still here, as you will be as long as people are here to complain. Don't kid yourself, I'll see you posting and responding and we'll be in the exact same situation 10 pages down the line.

As long as you're here trying to silence people, I'll be here pushing back. The bigger this thread gets the more exposure it gets as being a long-term issue. I mean the anti-Demon Hunter threads seemed to work out in our favour.

[Eapoe]

BTW.

@Flying Monkey,
@Eapoe,
@Dhrizzle,

Why are you guys continuing to "discuss" the topic of flying ad-nausea when the debate is settled already? We get flying in 7.2. Why the fuck is there still discussion on this?

(I hope it is now clear how stupid posts like this are. If you have something to say, say it, otherwise don't say anything. Simple.)

Ummm, we are saying something when we have something to say, usually when people post opinion as fact, don't see their "solutions" problems, or try to compare apples to oranges. Also, if you've noticed, I have stayed relatively silent in this new forum about flight until recently, it's people like you, CowDog, Thimagryn, and Mafic that have made post after post after post STILL complaining about flight deadlines and moving forward. I am think of at least 3 of CowDog's posts alone where he mentions his "solutions" for flight like they are gospel, without even addressing problems they cause. Almost all of your posts address how flight makes you feel and why you enjoy it, trying to pass opinion as fact. The only times you state facts is when you are piggybacking off someone else's (refuted) ideas. Before you or anyone else says "Personal attack!" keep in mind the things I am typing is from post history. Most people on here can't even acknowledge I am telling the truth when I say I enjoy flight, and will be happy when it's back, simply because I disagree with what a lot of others post and discuss the flaws, while freely admitting what flight is.
I mean, the question you posted works for everyone in this thread, so why are YOU still posting in it?

[SirCowdog]

I didn't know that flying, in Legion, was part of the world longer than it wasn't.

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Quit playing dumb. But just in case, let me clarify for those who actually are dumb:

The change is: They will revert back to allowing flight at max level at launch.

Clear enough?

Is anyone still asking for that?

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Blizzard had always had the stance that flying makes the pre level cap game easier by being able to skip out on the design they wanted to funnel players through.

Can you link me a post before WoD where this was said?

[rda]

Ummm, we are saying something when we have something to say, usually when people post opinion as fact, don't see their "solutions" problems, or try to compare apples to oranges. Also, if you've noticed, I have stayed relatively silent in this new forum ...

My message in the parens was strictly to Jaylock who was the author of the original post, and to others asking the stupidest question of "why are you still posting". I have nothing against you or others on the list writing what you are writing. (You for some reason say that I am "still complaining", while I am not, but perhaps that's the continuation of the misunderstanding of what the point of my post was, so no big deal.)

[Thimagryn]

it's people like you, CowDog, Thimagryn, and Mafic that have made post after post after post STILL complaining about flight deadlines and moving forward.

Look through the logs, I was satisfied and did move on. I only came back when I saw the anti-flight complaining was still going on as if the 7.2 announcement never happened and how flight is painted as a stain that Blizzard should but can't get rid of. I haven't really done much in terms of complaining, considering I'm not fully invested into flying. I think what we're getting is good. Of course, I'll always think Blizzard can implement flight better, considering gating flight is a 'lowest common denominator' move, and they tend to try and avoid it when they can.

[SirCowdog]

Look through the logs, I was satisfied and did move on. I only came back when I saw the anti-flight complaining was still going on as if the 7.2 announcement never happened and how flight is painted as a stain that Blizzard should but can't get rid of. I haven't really done much in terms of complaining, considering I'm not fully invested into flying. I think what we're getting is good. Of course, I'll always think Blizzard can implement flight better, considering gating flight is a 'lowest common denominator' move, and they tend to try and avoid it when they can.

I did pretty much the same, except I tried to start talking about ways to move forward from the unlock in 7.2. Unfortunately I also made the mistake of getting in the same old argument with the same old people who are using the same old excuses.

[ShiyoKozuki]

I'd use the flight path because I hate those less than I hate ground mounts. But I'm not giving up something I like for efficiency. I dislike both options, so I'd go with whichever I hate less.

I leveled an alt from 85-90 just with archeology to bypass leveling on the ground in Pandaria. I've always been willing to take longer to avoid something I hate.

This is...........
Wow.
Just wow.

[Kazgrel]

This is...........
Wow.
Just wow.

Options are amazing, aren't they?

If I were still playing, I'd much rather just quest through Jade Forest for the 98756376th time than ever deal with archaeology, even with a flying mount.

[Fabinas]

I talk about it in the immediate context that Blizzard announced "No flying ever again" then two weeks later we get flying back. That is an EXTREMELY fast turn-around for something as glacially slow to change like MMO development. It also throws into question any assumption that because a Blue post says something that it's set in stone. Isn't one of the key arguments against Blizzard releasing specific information about the final unlock of flying because development plans change?


And we're talking about stuff that could possibly happen in the NEXT EXPANSION. I think it's entirely fair to say that anything is possible, in regards to flying, for that far out. I don't mind some form of requirements to unlock flying. That part of it I'm actually ok with. What I care about is avoiding locking flight behind achievements that not only require virtually all of the open world to be irrelevant before getting flight.

The "immediate context" you refer to is one cropped context you want to use for your argument. The whole context is that : Blizzard announced flight before WoD at 6.1 with an epic (or was it legendary?) quest, then went vague about when flying will be implemented, then announced they scrap flying, then after a mass exodus of unsubbing players they stepped back, announced pathfinder and CLEARLY and EXPLICITLY stated that initial not flying-unlocking flight later is the way to go in WoD AND EVERY NEXT EXPANSION.

As i said before, sure, things can change in the future, but 1. Currently we don't have ANY indication they will (so any argument should NOT suppose they will), 2. IF THEY DO (removing flight totally, for example), the devs can be held accountable against that previous announcement. The chances for 2 IMHO are close to nil.

SO, no, it is not entirely fair to say that anything is possible, it's actually entirely UNFAIR, because flying has sticked far too long with us to be removed. As i mentioned, just the fact that Blizzard sells/sold flying mounts in their shop is enough to make players who want flying still (and they are many more than the against-flight ones) to make Blizzard reconsider.

[SirCowdog]

The "immediate context" you refer to is one cropped context you want to use for your argument. The whole context is that : Blizzard announced flight before WoD at 6.1 with an epic (or was it legendary?) quest, then went vague about when flying will be implemented, then announced they scrap flying, then after a mass exodus of unsubbing players they stepped back, announced pathfinder and CLEARLY and EXPLICITLY stated that initial not flying-unlocking flight later is the way to go in WoD AND EVERY NEXT EXPANSION.

As i said before, sure, things can change in the future, but 1. Currently we don't have ANY indication they will (so any argument should NOT suppose they will), 2. IF THEY DO (removing flight totally, for example), the devs can be held accountable against that previous announcement. The chances for 2 IMHO are close to nil.

SO, no, it is not entirely fair to say that anything is possible, it's actually entirely UNFAIR, because flying has sticked far too long with us to be removed. As i mentioned, just the fact that Blizzard sells/sold flying mounts in their shop is enough to make players who want flying still (and they are many more than the against-flight ones) to make Blizzard reconsider.

You have two expansions which both began their developed under the same ideals of No-Flying. Except that since the complete 180 away from "no flying ever again" we've had more flight-friendly development: Going from a last-minute scramble to get the world flight-ready, and pathfinder at the end of the expansion with almost all open world content required to unlock it in WoD, to Legion where it's going to be available "midway through the expansion" and an open world which has had much more time to be built to accommodate flying players.

A lot depends on what content is available to use flying on after it's unlocked in 7.2, of course, but it would appear that they're actually moving away from a hardline approach like we saw in WoD. I don't doubt that some form of Pathfinder will probably still be around for future unlocking of flying, but as I already said, I don't have any problem with an unlock so long as that unlock leaves current content to use flying on.

Because what it sounds like you're suggesting is that any discussion about possible plans to make flying better or more accessible in the future aren't worth discussion. I absolutely don't agree with that. If Blizzard has come to the realization that they can't get rid of flying, then they might as well make the best use of it as they can; which includes the possibility of improving upon its design and implementation.