7.1.5 Ptr Changes

[Deleted]

I held out until 7.1.5 because mostly I love the social aspect and have soem really great people in my guild. But also because I listened to the devs doing interviews and they seemed to actually get the issues with affliction and specifically named them, and actually seemed to be working on solutions ofr those issues.

I first saw the Malefic Grasp and the tooltip to Drain Soul and I though great, this is what we have been saying, these are reasonable ways to address affliction's problems with burst and pure single target

Then I saw that Drain Soul's damage has been absolutely gutted and thought nah, it's a datamining thing. So I tried it on the PTR. And it's correct. That simply makes all the "changes" utterly pointless.

At this point I just wonder what the fuck is going on with the devs, it's like going to a restaurant for years as a meeting place for friends. The food isn;t great and some of it is really awful, but you've met the cooks and they have said yes some of our food is horrible because it has too much salt or whatever, we know that, and we're working on new recipes

So they do a big show about a "new opening" and you get the new recipes, and guess whatm they are as horrible as ever, or worse, and for exactly the same reasons that the cooks themselves said they recognised as spoiling the food.

I'll probably go on because I still hugle yenjoy the company of my friends, and probably play warlock because frankly I haven't got any motivation to level and gear up anything else.

But this is a massive disappointment, I feel that we were just plain lied to or faced with total imcompetence when we get interviews saying "yeah we know affliction has ramp and single target issues", a load of hype about how "we're bringing changes to fix that or at least try to" and then it all turns into a shit sandwich where the changes which could have been good are ruined by a ludicrous nerf that makes them all pointless and renders it a rebranding exercise.

[Deleted]

They don't know what to do with Warlock, and equally clueless as to where to go with Shadow, and they want me to play Fire on Mage because they don't want to upset existing Fire mages and don't really know what to do with it either.

The class design team have dropped the ball all over the place this expansion. They need to look at the teams doing it, how they're doing it, and what it is they're trying to achieve. Structurally, something has gone horribly wrong.

Yes it was an over-exaggeration, but it seems so sometimes. I dont think they dont know what to do with locks. I think they just dont want to fix all the weaknesses of each spec and make each spec to be able to do everything with one talent build. On the other hand i believe they dont know how to fix firemages since thats where the flaw in the legion mindset of "excel in one area, being flawed in an another" is.

[Deleted]

How can you get FnB and eradication now? On ptr build with Backdraft/FnB/CD you can have good aoe while having also ST with Eradication/CD and then can choose service or sac to bump either aoe or st more. Even if RE cast time reduce doesnt go baseline, it loses value if you have CD in the rotation. RE would be probably be the choice for endless cleave paired with Wreak Havoc.

Ofc for all this math needs to be done but idont see the choices you have to make on ptr build the same as they are now. And also there will be more changes to come probably, so all this may be irrelevant too.

Well, you can get RE and FnB now, which is roughly the same as eradication and FnB. Service and Sac choice is the same as it is currently, except that Sac is better right now. CDF AoE component may be enough to alleviate the nerf to GoSac.

My point is that the changes for destruction boil down to forcing us to pick a single target talent and an AoE talent, before we had the option not to do so. Since cleave is what destruction does well, it makes sense that you would want the single target talents, since they work in cleave as well.

I'm hoping for more changes, because the current ones make no sense, and the only thing that gives me hope is that this seems to apply to pretty much everyone. There is absolutely no way they won't take a big hard look at what they threw out and make some sweeping changes, because virtually noone is happy with them.

[Deleted]

Can somebody correct me, or does Eradication seem completely pointless now? Not only does it share row with Reverse Entropy, but also empowered Life Tap which just seems straight up superior in almost every respect.

Eradication requires you to stand still and cast a initial Chaos Bolt to even get the benefit. That on it's own already costs 2 soul shards, which is a pretty hefty price. It's duration is 6 seconds, and without Reverse Entropy you'll find yourself more limited with the amount of spells you can fit into said window. Also the benefit only applies to the target you casted Chaos Bolt onto.

Empowered Life Tap? Instant cast with a small HP cost. Applies a flat 10% damage onto you for 10 seconds. No soul shard costs associated, longer duration, only 2% smaller and can be cast on the move with a super small HP cost.

Am in the wrong here? Eradication seems like the most nonsense choice even for single target fights when it shares the same row with Empowered Life Tap. I don't really want to jump to conclusions too soon, but if I'm right then what the hell were they thinking.

Edit: This basically also applies to Affliction's talent row. Empowered Life Tap vs Contagion. Why would I ever pick Contagion or Eradication?

[Deleted]

Can somebody correct me, or does Eradication seem completely pointless now? Not only does it share row with Reverse Entropy, but also empowered Life Tap which just seems straight up superior in almost every respect.

Eradication requires you to stand still and cast a initial Chaos Bolt to even get the benefit. That on it's own already costs 2 soul shards, which is a pretty hefty price. It's duration is 6 seconds, and without Reverse Entropy you'll find yourself more limited with the amount of spells you can fit into said window. Also the benefit only applies to the target you casted Chaos Bolt onto.

Empowered Life Tap? Instant cast with a small HP cost. Applies a flat 10% damage onto you for 10 seconds. No soul shard costs associated, longer duration, only 2% smaller and can be cast on the move with a super small HP cost.

Am in the wrong here? Eradication seems like the most nonsense choice even for single target fights when it shares the same row with Empowered Life Tap. I don't really want to jump to conclusions too soon, but if I'm right then what the hell were they thinking.

Edit: This basically also applies to Affliction's talent row. Empowered Life Tap vs Contagion. Why would I ever pick Contagion or Eradication?

Well, it is one GCD every 10 seconds. I haven't mathed it out at all, but I don't think it is too much better than the alternatives. The big thing is that it applies to every target, and not just those you have UA or CB on.

I would argue that most of our talents are a complete mess by now, but yeah. Definitely not the final version of 7.1.5, so things might get fixed. Frankly, I doubt anything will get fixed, the devs make one clueless decision after another, and my faith in their ability to do it right is plummeting.

[Deleted]

Well, it is one GCD every 10 seconds. I haven't mathed it out at all, but I don't think it is too much better than the alternatives. The big thing is that it applies to every target, and not just those you have UA or CB on.

I guess my main point is that you could theoretically keep 100% uptime on Empowered Life Tap if you really wanted to. The biggest cost is that 1 GCD every 10 second as well as your sanity, whereas Eradication and Contagion's uptime is entirely dependant on how well your resources are regenerating.

Either way, both are competing with Reverse Entropy, but I was just surprised that Empowered Life Tap is in the same row as Eradication, since they're basically both the same functionally as a damage buff, but Empowered Life Tap is longer, much less punishable and a lot less cost heavy. I feel like it would make more sense to switch Cataclysm & Eradication if anything.

[Tweetster]

How do the damage nerfs compare to the nerfs made in the other classes?

[evertonbelmontt]

To be honest I was hoping at least siphon to be baseline, and an interrupt as well.

Buuuut one thing I saw on wowhead caught my attention, doombolt buffed by 20%. Guess our interrupt is there hahah

As for the changes, this is my feedback:
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=3#post-46

Let's be optimistic because mages and SP had it worst this time EHAUEHAH

[Mehrunes]

Ah, nice, two DoT throttles for Aff (at least they are in the same row). And other than Drain Soul (yay, I guess) becoming baseline, nothing else did. And no new talents other than MG replacing DS. This is just sad. Meanwhile, Mages get 8 new talents, including DPS related options in previously defensive/utility based second row, stronger baseline defenses (I get making changing Ice Barrier to more spec fantasy versions, but why the buffs) and baseline Cauterize for Fire too. Meanwhile the "tanky caster" got shafted in PvP tankiness some more.

Also, I like how in light of "we'll make some of the too popular talents baseline" the solution to Destro who had a very popular talents for AoE and another for ST was making the ST talents exclusive with each other and AoE talents exclusive with each other.

[Duckz0rs]

Heh, they actually brought back Glyph of Life Tap, but at a shorter duration? I mean, it's definitely better than Mana Tap. But Improved Soul Fire was also better than Mana Tap, but not exactly loved either.

So far not too happy with the changes in general on a mechanical level. I didn't mind the long cast times on chaos bolt in mop because we didn't cast that many chaos bolts. 3 seconds is a bit steep for a spell you cast about every 10 seconds though, makes the "rotation" feel sloggish, but I'll wait and see for now.
I'm also a bit disappointed in the GoSac nerf, the biggest reason I stuck to GoSac is for Dark Pact. If you have to use the imp with dark pact you're kind of better off just taking Demon Skin; a 280k shield is very underwhelming after seeing a 2.5million shield for a while (numbers might have been entirely made up because I'm at work).

@Gaidax I don't have access to the PTR atm, but is there any chance RE might be a decent competitor on cleave fights for Eradication and Empowered Life Tap as far as you've seen?

[Demonidze]

i mean... they clearly nerf us because the legendary items can in theory makes us overpowered.. right? but.. the problem is very small % of warlocks actually have the right legendaries to be in a position to be overpowered.

[Mehrunes]

and you only have to give up backdraft or roaring blaze

ama-zing!

It is indeed ama-zing (especially with the 12 sec recharge that he ignored). But only after you let Blizzard into your heart and convert to Blizzard sycophancy.

nerf to demonbolt is actually a buff?

If you sacrifice facts for the deification of Blizzard.

[Deleted]

Omg, Drain soul damage gets doubled on ptr! Live: 6 + 366%, ptr: 6 + 720%! And Drain Soul is now baseline, replaces Drain life: Me very like this change

[kavousanos]

In case you are not up to speed - Fire Mages got a serious nerfbat in 7.1.5.

Do elaborate.
And I'm not being ironic here, I actually wanna know.

[karatakor]

FnB, Backdraft and Shadowburn need to be baseline.
Shard building with immo is too random.
ST dps is too low.

In MM+ I am laking ST and/or AOE as the game ask us to choose between FnB or eradication. To the point that we wipe in higher keys due to lack of AOE without FnB.
This is ridiculous. DPS should not be talent related.
Please make every talent utility and def only.

Or simply bring back Pandaria destruction back to life, gameplay was much more dynamic and fluid.

[Jessicka]

Ah, nice, two DoT throttles for Aff (at least they are in the same row). And other than Drain Soul (yay, I guess) becoming baseline, nothing else did. And no new talents other than MG replacing DS. This is just sad. Meanwhile, Mages get 8 new talents, including DPS related options in previously defensive/utility based second row, stronger baseline defenses (I get making changing Ice Barrier to more spec fantasy versions, but why the buffs) and baseline Cauterize for Fire too. Meanwhile the "tanky caster" got shafted in PvP tankiness some more.

Also, I like how in light of "we'll make some of the too popular talents baseline" the solution to Destro who had a very popular talents for AoE and another for ST was making the ST talents exclusive with each other and AoE talents exclusive with each other.

You realise the Drain Soul being baseline is the graphic and the Soul Shard return on death, not the damage; and that the healing has been nerfed.

- - - Updated - - -

Omg, Drain soul damage gets doubled on ptr! Live: 6 + 366%, ptr: 6 + 720%! And Drain Soul is now baseline, replaces Drain life: Me very like this change

That's not how the damage is actually happening on PTR, DS is doing the same damage as Drain Life was, with less healing.

[Mehrunes]

You realise the Drain Soul being baseline is the graphic and the Soul Shard return on death, not the damage; and that the healing has been nerfed.

My praise for Blizzard is never particularly genuine. Though baseline Shard snipping is indeed nice and the healing nerf isn't that big.

That's not how the damage is actually happening on PTR, DS is doing the same damage as Drain Life was, with less healing.

Oh. That's right, I made the mistake of having expectations again.

[Scathbais]

To be honest I was hoping at least siphon to be baseline, and an interrupt as well.

Buuuut one thing I saw on wowhead caught my attention, doombolt buffed by 20%. Guess our interrupt is there hahah

As for the changes, this is my feedback:
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/t...page=3#post-46

Let's be optimistic because mages and SP had it worst this time EHAUEHAH

Glad I saw your post, as I was getting ready to put up the same. However it is a 28% increase: 215% SP -> 275% SP

[Mehrunes]

empowered life tap is such aids, just think we'll be life tapping before every pull to maintain the buff killing ourselves.

At least they didn't get the idea to boost Warlock mobility by making Burning Rush passive. It's not that bad! Allfather Blizzard bring salvation unto as all!

Thats what Blizzdrones have been saying for years now, "Dont panic PTR notes arent final, this will never make it to live"

Working so well for Warlocks this expansion. That accuracy in their claims.

[dakalro]

How is shadowburn replacing conflag good? I really don't see it, so maybe you can explain it to me. I mean, it has 2 charges, and unless you are killing stuff with it, it is bad, since you lose out on backdraft / roaring blaze.

The "Amazing" opportunity of Cata + Eradication was possible before, but people didn't do it. Forcing it on us doesn't magically make it better. Before we could choose between full single target / cleave, full AoE, or a mix. Now we are forced to mix.

Dark Soul increased duration is nice, and may be the saving grace of this change, but even then, I really doubt it.

Last but not least, NONE of the changes fixed ANY of the issues that locks currently have.

Ramp is still insane for aff and Demo, mobility is still a huge issue for Demo, aff and demo STILL don't have a baseline AoE shard spender, we STILL don't have baseline interrupt. The list is endless, and how they managed to make things worse without fixing ANYTHING after all this time is simply blowing up my mind.

The destro talent problem was that you gave up AoE for ST and most people complained about that, Blizzard is fixing that, giving us choices that might be worth considering. It's actually good stuff. Sure you lose a ST option on a talent row but that can be fixed by bumping overall damage by 2-3% or something.
I find RE/Erad/ELT to be a really nice talent row now. Each talent might have uses. Same for BD/RB/SB.
If they increase RoF a little the AoE row will also be nice.

Get another 5% boost to damage on all spells and Destro is nice-ish.

RoF being crap as an AoE and no interrupt are still valid issues but that's only a couple of issues. I think FnB or Cata being baseline or SH baseline and a RoF improving talent in its place might work to fix AoE.

No comments on affli or demo as affli has no artifact changes and demo has almost no changes.