Protection legion Discussion

[Voyle]

Why do you think devastator is worse for dps? Sure it attacks slower than devastate, but at least 1/6 of your moves are shield slam anyways, and another 1/4 are thunderclaps, so you would only be able to devastate ~58.3% of the time, 1.5 GCD / 0.58 ~= 2.57 which is very close to your swing timer of 2.6. They would seem very similar in dps before even looking at procs on revenge / shield slam resets which certainly favour devastator

[Valech]

Why do you think devastator is worse for dps? Sure it attacks slower than devastate, but at least 1/6 of your moves are shield slam anyways, and another 1/4 are thunderclaps, so you would only be able to devastate ~58.3% of the time, 1.5 GCD / 0.58 ~= 2.57 which is very close to your swing timer of 2.6. They would seem very similar in dps before even looking at procs on revenge / shield slam resets which certainly favour devastator

Regarding dps, devestator might be better and in terms of rage gain it might be equal (tho prone to bad rng) but in the end you still lose 25% health and your IPs are 25% weaker.

[Deleted]

You should try these changes on the ptr. I am playing my warrior as main since i started to play in TBC and my first reaction was also "OMG WTF", but when you try it for yourself these changes feel pretty nice to play with. So dont panic and give it a chance.

To be honest i dont think devastator is a single target talent. You have so much free GCD to use revenge (with vengeance). It should be really strong for AoE. In mythic+ you can use a lot of revenges, because you have the free GCDs with devastator, the rage from damage income and the high free revenge proc chance from multiple mobs hitting you.

SS > Rev > TC > Rev > SS ALL DAY LONG

For single target indomitable should probably still be the talent to roll with and the priority list is kinda the same.

1. shield slam
2.1 free revenge for 35% IP cost reduction (vengeance)
2.2 thunder clap
3.1 devastate
3.2 revenge, if you want to push some dps and dont need the survivability. (vengeance)

I dont have any sims to proof that this is the 100% right way to play it. Thats just the way i tested it, because it makes sense for me.


What i really hope for is a change to "booming voice" in the next build and maybe "into the frey".

[Deleted]

with these changes i stil dont like revenge being on the GCD with vengeance, it makes our AM usage EXTREMELY clunky

[Llarold]

with these changes i stil dont like revenge being on the GCD with vengeance, it makes our AM usage EXTREMELY clunky

Agreed. Taking it off-GCD and making it analogous to Cleave (I'm old) would be my preferred change. Barring that, it should at least be capable of proccing Shield Slam. Otherwise, it will be a very low priority GCD - just like now!

Their goal is to make Warrior offense a little less stale, so hopefully they do push forward with one of those changes.

[ReD-EyeD]

Anybody else that hates skittish? Doing mythics with a frost dk / fire mage and my threat just ain't cutting it.

I just wanted to say that 2/3 of Skittish problems lies in DD roles, only 1/5 in lacking aoe stuns and the rest is tanks not doing what they need to. Don't blame yourself too much, others need to do their part of the work too.

[Voyle]

I just wanted to say that 2/3 of Skittish problems lies in DD roles, only 1/5 in lacking aoe stuns and the rest is tanks not doing what they need to. Don't blame yourself too much, others need to do their part of the work too.

With that attitude, groups just need to bring tanks that aren't prot warriors.

[Highwhale]

I just wanted to say that 2/3 of Skittish problems lies in DD roles, only 1/5 in lacking aoe stuns and the rest is tanks not doing what they need to. Don't blame yourself too much, others need to do their part of the work too.

As BDK i can do Skittish with deadbrain dps who do FCKING HUGE cleave pretty easy. Protowar just dont suited for this affix. Blame spec.

[Toybox]

Agreed. Taking it off-GCD and making it analogous to Cleave (I'm old) would be my preferred change. Barring that, it should at least be capable of proccing Shield Slam. Otherwise, it will be a very low priority GCD - just like now!

Their goal is to make Warrior offense a little less stale, so hopefully they do push forward with one of those changes.

With Devastator talented, I find myself able to use Revenge often enough for it to not be too bothersome. Could never play it without Devastator talented, though.

[Valech]

With Devastator talented, I find myself able to use Revenge often enough for it to not be too bothersome. Could never play it without Devastator talented, though.

You seem not to understand, that the larger IPs and the bigger healthpool are invalueable. It is not, that devestator is bad, it is that the other options in that row are too strong.

[Toybox]

You seem not to understand, that the larger IPs and the bigger healthpool are invalueable. It is not, that devestator is bad, it is that the other options in that row are too strong.

After testing it on the PTR, the proc-rate of Devastator was more than enough to compensate for the smaller IPs. Plus the difference in damage be the difference between pushing a timer or not, and being able to get the absolute most out of Vengeance, even though Revenge is on the GCD, is very nice.

[Deleted]

I can't believe this, another overhaul?! Iirc, they said they didn't wanna change specs too much in between patches, where's that line of thought now?

"We don't want to nerf classes or buff massively"->Nerfs massively and buffs massively like every other xpac

Good ol' "Brewmasters are fine, you're all fucking dogshit" & "Your input is not wanted BDKs." blizz logic.

[Sting]

I just wanted to say that 2/3 of Skittish problems lies in DD roles, only 1/5 in lacking aoe stuns and the rest is tanks not doing what they need to. Don't blame yourself too much, others need to do their part of the work too.

Yea, it just isn't fun to play like this though, especially with our frost DK. He has insane aoe and even with intercept / taunt / stuns there's only so much I can do before he gets destroyed, especially on higher levels. Warlord's challenge is a must and it works like a charm, but it's not up for every trash pack. Even with full aoe spec (ravager/booming voice/avatar) I'm having issues.

It's really demotivating since I feel like I'm letting them down.

[Valech]

After testing it on the PTR, the proc-rate of Devastator was more than enough to compensate for the smaller IPs. Plus the difference in damage be the difference between pushing a timer or not, and being able to get the absolute most out of Vengeance, even though Revenge is on the GCD, is very nice.

Proc rate of devestator is 30% of all white hits. So a bit less then a third of every autohit. Not sure what you were testing on the PTR. Anyway.
Even if it was true, that Devestator would make up for the smaller IPs (AND the lower Healthpool, which you didn´t mention) it still is problematic due its rng nature. Chances are, that it drowns you in rage in trivial moments and lets you sit with empty gcds in moments of high damage intake.

Asides, I do not believe, that damage gain is massive. But feel free to show me wrong on that one.

[Toybox]

Proc rate of devestator is 30% of all white hits. So a bit less then a third of every autohit. Not sure what you were testing on the PTR. Anyway.
Even if it was true, that Devestator would make up for the smaller IPs (AND the lower Healthpool, which you didn´t mention) it still is problematic due its rng nature. Chances are, that it drowns you in rage in trivial moments and lets you sit with empty gcds in moments of high damage intake.

Asides, I do not believe, that damage gain is massive. But feel free to show me wrong on that one.

Don't really consider the lower healthpool much of an issue. Puts is in line with the other non-Bear/stam-talent tanks when we don't take it, so it's a bit forgettable (except for uber cutting edge with minimal gear, I guess).

Assuming 30% haste & vengeance, every 5th cast (with no procs) is a SS. I guess the same would be true also for Revenge (every 6-7 seconds for vengeance weaving sounds about right to me). So that's 2/5 GCDs accounted for. Throw in the chance for revenge & SS procs, and I'm struggling to hit TC on CD while specced for Devastator.

Missing out on a single revenge proc is a pretty huge DPS loss, and considering how much devastate spamming offers in terms of resetting SS, I'd rather not do it.

I'm on the PTR at the moment if you wanna come try it out But I'm constantly getting 30-50k more DPS on the dummy with devastator, while tankiness isn't really suffering much at all.

[Voyle]

The rage is guaranteed with every melee attack, it is guaranteed more rage than the regular devastate rotation. Your shield slam procs themselves are expected to be very similar, favouring devastator for more procs.

Yes you lose 25% IP, and it may be worse for survivability, but then again you continue to have all the benefits of your singletarget rotation for survival while in aoe situations, so you are able to contribute to the group without putting yourself at risk. A dps choice is something that people would actually compare and make a choice about. If it was all just 3 different mitigation abilities people would figure out the "right one" and that would be it.

[Llarold]

Having played with Devastator a bit, I find the increased rage generation against trivial content intriguing. At first glance, I think it's probably going to shake out as a suboptimal talent for prog, and something you only take to pump out microscopically more dps when it's parse time. We'll just have to see.

[Toybox]

Well, that was an unexpected bonus from my daily HC Sadly, as decent as it is, I don't think I'll be using it... Sad times.

[Thorbjorn]

Hey guys I was just hoping for some input on what trinkets I should use I currently have the 3 following to choose from
[Impenetrable Nerubian Husk](865iLvl)
986 Haste
"Your attacks have a chance to grant you 319 armor every 1 sec for 15 sec."

[Phantasmal Echo](860 iLvl)
+1043 haste
When you fall below 50% health a shadow reflection manifests from the emerald nightmare, absorbing 30% of damage taken for 20 secs, prevents up to 897,050 total damage

And
[Unstable Arcanocrystal](860 iLvl)
+807 Crit
+807 Haste
+807 verstatility
+807 Mastery

I was thinking about going for the Phantasmal / Nerubian combo, but the raw stats from the Arcanocrystal seem so good aswell, halp please.

[Llarold]

I was thinking about going for the Phantasmal / Nerubian combo, but the raw stats from the Arcanocrystal seem so good aswell, halp please.

Unstable Arcanocrystal is certainly the best of the three. You appear to have listed the stats from an 880 Phantasmal Echo, which would probably be slightly ahead of an 865 Impenetrable Nerubian Husk. If it is 860, then the Husk would be superior.