Lore Character "Power Level" Ranking list

[Radaney]

I just tried doing a tier list for this shit and it is hard...

Seeing the Pre-Nerf Dragon Aspects so low on my tier list has to be wrong...but they never really did a lot except Deathwing.

So I scrapped it.

[Fasterlol]

Titans/Pantheon go buy black bottle

[Deleted]

From Chronicles, the lastest books and from the events we see in game, the list would go as follow:

T1 - Void Lords
T2 - Sargeras, Pantheon
T3 - Old Gods (full power)
T4 - Azshara, Deathwing, Archimonde, Kil'Jaeden,
T5 - Lich King, Lei Shen (pre-resurrection)
T6 -Titan Keepers, Aspects, Elemental Lords, Wild Gods
T7 - Notable NPCs (Khadgar, Malfurion, Gul'dan etc.),
T8 - Players

Tier "They're gonna buff me to insane level of power contraditting the lore so far" - Illidan
Tier "I'm not even canon anymore lol" - Me'dan

[Qualia]

T1 - Void Lords
T2 - Sargeras, Pantheon
T3 - Old Gods (full power)

So, T1 Void Lords were envious of T2 Pantheon's power, and when a T2 character (Sargeras) found the T1 Void Lords in the physical universe, he didn't deem it dangerous enough to stop hunting demons, just enough to put a mental note to deal with them after he's done with the demons. T3 Old Gods who were subdued by the Titan Keepers and were able to, at best we know so far, destroy mountaintops are above T4 Archimonde / KJ who single handedly destroyed planet, ripping its surface apart with a single spell.

Seem legit =P

[Deleted]

You should re-read Chronicles, if you ever had in the first place.
- VL were envious of the Titans power to freely move an act in the physical universe, not their strength
- Titans didn't even know Void Lords existed, they only knew void magic was present in the universe
- Sargeras only encountered a corrupted world soul, and the simple revelation of what it would have done drove him into despair and ultimately the belief that destroying the universe was a better fate
- Titan Keepers didn't beat the Old God by themselves. They were aided by the Titans, and had an army, and still risked a loss at some point

Finally, destroying a planet is not necessarily a measure for strength. Ner'zhul destroyed Draenor using some powerful artifacts, Deatwhing would have been able to destroy Azeroth surface with his cataclysm. Yet, you wouldn't put them in the same league of Sargeras, won't you?

[Qualia]

You should re-read Chronicles, if you ever had in the first place.

You should re-read Chronicles, if you ever had in the first place. As of me, I had access to it before it was even released, so I think I'm good. Anyway, to address each points of you with quotes from Chronicle itself:

You should re-read Chronicles, if you ever had in the first place.
- VL were envious of the Titans power to freely move an act in the physical universe, not their strength

That wasn't what it said. Let's not add extra words in and present our own interpretations as fact. This is what was stated in Chronicle:

"From the moment the cosmos came to be, dark spirits within the Void sought to twist reality into a realm of eternal torment. These entities were known as the void lords, and they had long watched the Pantheon and their journey from world to world. Envious of their power, the void lords sought to corrupt one of the world-shaping titans into an instrument of their will"

As you can see, there is no "power to freely move and act in the physical universe" there. It was one simple word: "power". "Power" isn't "power to freely move and act in the physical universe". That was, for now, just your own interpretation, so let's stop presenting or using it as fact.

- Titans didn't even know Void Lords existed, they only knew void magic was present in the universe
- Sargeras only encountered a corrupted world soul, and the simple revelation of what it would have done drove him into despair and ultimately the belief that destroying the universe was a better fate

That was before Sargeras found the Void Lords. If you would kindly turn to the next page ("Sargeras and Aggramar"), you'd see this:
"As his battles dragged on, he became aware that some demons had learned to wield Void energies. Through investigating these dark powers and where they originated from, Sargeras discovered that malign intelligences were spreading corruption throughout the cosmos.

These intelligences were the void lords, and they were far more powerful than demons. The presence of the void lords left Sargeras deeply troubled. He pondered what the powers of the Void were planning, and what their existences could mean for the universe.

Despite his unsettling discovery, Sargeras continued waging his war on demons. <...> Seeing life bloom, free from emon influence, gave him a sense of satisfaction. His love for life galvanized his will to confront the void lords and undo their sinister plans for creation - whatever those plans might be"

Again, as you can see, Sargeras found the void lords out when they were spreading their corruptions throughout the universe. He realized that they were far more powerful than demons, but he never stop waging his war with demon or report to the Pantheon (seeing the first time the Pantheon learned about the Void Lords was after Sargeras destroyed the corrupted world-soul). Sargeras just decided to confront the void lords after he is done with the demons. In comparison, right after he learned of the Void Lords' plan to corrupt and create a Void Titan, he immediately stopped fighting demons and summoned the Pantheon to make his report. In fact, going by Chronicle's description of the Void Titan ("No power in creation, not even the Pantheon, could stand against it"), you'd have to wonder that if the void Lords are indeed more powerful than the Pantheon, why aren't they named here instead of the Pantheon?

I pointed this out many times before - at the moment, based on what little we know from the Void Lords, they don't seem to be more powerful than the Titans - see the quotes above. I wouldn't claim that there is no way for the Void Lords to be a lot more (or less) powerful than they currently appear as their story just began and there are a lot of rooms for Blizzard to re-interpret current lore. However, right now, they aren't *that* powerful, so let's not use our speculations as facts (that's why I didn't reply to any post that used "maybe" when it comes to the Void Lords in this thread as they kept it speculation).

- Titan Keepers didn't beat the Old God by themselves. They were aided by the Titans, and had an army, and still risked a loss at some point

Finally, destroying a planet is not necessarily a measure for strength. Ner'zhul destroyed Draenor using some powerful artifacts, Deatwhing would have been able to destroy Azeroth surface with his cataclysm. Yet, you wouldn't put them in the same league of Sargeras, won't you?

They were only aided by the Titan in the case of Y'Shaarj, which was the most powerful Old Gods. They defeated the other Old Gods by themselves - yes, they had the titan-forged army with them, but the Old Gods had their armies that keep spawning from the OGs themselves as well. Additionally, the best destructive feat we've seen from the Old Gods were Y'Shaarj destroying mountaintops while, on the other hand, Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden are capable of destroying planet with single spell.

Destroying a planet IS usually a measure for strength. Otherwise, why do you think people categorizing characters into city-burster, mountain-burster, continent-burster, planet-burster, etc. while comparing their strength / power? It's true that it's not always the case: it only applies when the character can do it by themselves with their own strengths, so Ner'zhul's case wouldn't apply as he used the artifacts. However, that wasn't the case for the unnamed eredar (which either is Archimonde / KJ, or weaker than them) - he was casting that spell by himself, as described in "A Prophet's Lesson" or the legendary tooltip (although the tooltip can be interpreted differently).
Not too sure why would we bring Sargeras here. Firstly, he is more than a planet burster. Secondly, we aren't even comparing two planet burster entities here. We are comparing one that can destroy a planet, and one that can't (and isn't more durable than a planet). Why would you put the OGs on a higher tier when Archimonde / KJ, no PiS involved, can just destroy them with one spell?

[Cl4nK]

You should re-read Chronicles, if you ever had in the first place. As of me, I had access to it before it was even released, so I think I'm good. Anyway, to address each points of you with quotes from Chronicle itself:


That wasn't what it said. Let's not add extra words in and present our own interpretations as fact. This is what was stated in Chronicle:

"From the moment the cosmos came to be, dark spirits within the Void sought to twist reality into a realm of eternal torment. These entities were known as the void lords, and they had long watched the Pantheon and their journey from world to world. Envious of their power, the void lords sought to corrupt one of the world-shaping titans into an instrument of their will"

As you can see, there is no "power to freely move and act in the physical universe" there. It was one simple word: "power". "Power" isn't "power to freely move and act in the physical universe". That was, for now, just your own interpretation, so let's stop presenting or using it as fact.

Well, to be honest, I too interpreted in the way that they were not jealous of the raw power, but rather their "physical presence". Due to the phrase before "watched the Pantheon and their journey from world to world." So to me, when they refer as power in this whole paragraph, it's not necessarily speaking of raw physical power itself, considering that the Void Lords can't even truly manifest themselves in the physical plane. Even more so if you take in consideration that their main goal is to turn the the reality into a realm of eternal torment, which I assume is something they would thrive on. And how do they do that? By corruping one of the world-shaping Titans into an instrument of their will.

However, I do agree with everything else you've said.

[Aucald]

While I'm not clear on the exact "power level" of the Void Lords in comparison to the Titans, my understanding of "Chronicle" leads me to believe that they're of comparable strength if not more powerful as a collective. The statement of the Void Lords being "envious of the Titans' power" didn't strike me as an admission of less power, only that the Void Lords desired the Titans' ability to shape and interact with the physical universe in a direct sense as opposed to relying on corrupting subordinates such as the demons or other life forms with their Void energies. Like other powerful beings the Void Lords seem more or less constrained to their realm of origin, only able to influence the physical universe through proxies.

Their ability to create a Void Titan such that "no power in creation, not even the Pantheon, could stand against it" seems more a testament to their power - if a single being corrupted by their energies could become such a threat, what would be the direct result of their influence were they able to act directly and unfiltered? If an individual Titan is even more powerful than the collective Void Lords how could they corrupt such a being in the first place (even in its infancy)? Power is not always a straightforward concept, either. The Pantheon should have arguably been more than the equal of wayward Sargeras, but he found a lever to utilize that allowed him to eclipse the whole of them quite handily. Perhaps the "power" of the Void Lords is evidenced by a similar mechanism - less raw personal power and more their ability to influence and corrupt anything they encounter, including beings of cosmic significance.

[Deleted]

T1 some sort of Light Lords
T2 Void Lords

[Qualia]

The Pantheon should have arguably been more than the equal of wayward Sargeras, but he found a lever to utilize that allowed him to eclipse the whole of them quite handily. Perhaps the "power" of the Void Lords is evidenced by a similar mechanism - less raw personal power and more their ability to influence and corrupt anything they encounter, including beings of cosmic significance.

I agree with this. After all, the force of the Void (which the Void Lords likely are the leaders) is the bigger threat than the Legion. Other than adult Titan, the Void Lords seem to be able to corrupt everything else - that certainly is something fearsome.

However, I believe that the "power" in the title refer to raw fighting strength (i.e: which character is going to win against another character). In that case, while it might be changed in the future when we get more information about the Void Lords, currently there isn't any statement that the Void Lords are on another level above the Titans / Pantheon yet. The only thing we know is that they are more powerful than the demons (back then) and likely the OGs as well. Being able to corrupt an infant titan, unable to corrupt an adult one, or able to "empower" the infant titan to create Void Titan (presumably most powerful being) aren't really indication that they are more (or less) powerful than adult Titans (again, with "power" in the "power level").

[darkoms]

T5 - Lich King, Lei Shen (pre-resurrection)
T6 -Titan Keepers, Aspects, Elemental Lords, Wild Gods

Realy? Why all put Arthas above Dragon Aspects, Elemental Gods and Wild Gods? Why?

- - - Updated - - -

You should re-read Chronicles, if you ever had in the first place. As of me, I had access to it before it was even released, so I think I'm good. Anyway, to address each points of you with quotes from Chronicle itself:


That wasn't what it said. Let's not add extra words in and present our own interpretations as fact. This is what was stated in Chronicle:

"From the moment the cosmos came to be, dark spirits within the Void sought to twist reality into a realm of eternal torment. These entities were known as the void lords, and they had long watched the Pantheon and their journey from world to world. Envious of their power, the void lords sought to corrupt one of the world-shaping titans into an instrument of their will"

As you can see, there is no "power to freely move and act in the physical universe" there. It was one simple word: "power". "Power" isn't "power to freely move and act in the physical universe". That was, for now, just your own interpretation, so let's stop presenting or using it as fact.


That was before Sargeras found the Void Lords. If you would kindly turn to the next page ("Sargeras and Aggramar"), you'd see this:
"As his battles dragged on, he became aware that some demons had learned to wield Void energies. Through investigating these dark powers and where they originated from, Sargeras discovered that malign intelligences were spreading corruption throughout the cosmos.

These intelligences were the void lords, and they were far more powerful than demons. The presence of the void lords left Sargeras deeply troubled. He pondered what the powers of the Void were planning, and what their existences could mean for the universe.

Despite his unsettling discovery, Sargeras continued waging his war on demons. <...> Seeing life bloom, free from emon influence, gave him a sense of satisfaction. His love for life galvanized his will to confront the void lords and undo their sinister plans for creation - whatever those plans might be"

Again, as you can see, Sargeras found the void lords out when they were spreading their corruptions throughout the universe. He realized that they were far more powerful than demons, but he never stop waging his war with demon or report to the Pantheon (seeing the first time the Pantheon learned about the Void Lords was after Sargeras destroyed the corrupted world-soul). Sargeras just decided to confront the void lords after he is done with the demons. In comparison, right after he learned of the Void Lords' plan to corrupt and create a Void Titan, he immediately stopped fighting demons and summoned the Pantheon to make his report. In fact, going by Chronicle's description of the Void Titan ("No power in creation, not even the Pantheon, could stand against it"), you'd have to wonder that if the void Lords are indeed more powerful than the Pantheon, why aren't they named here instead of the Pantheon?

I pointed this out many times before - at the moment, based on what little we know from the Void Lords, they don't seem to be more powerful than the Titans - see the quotes above. I wouldn't claim that there is no way for the Void Lords to be a lot more (or less) powerful than they currently appear as their story just began and there are a lot of rooms for Blizzard to re-interpret current lore. However, right now, they aren't *that* powerful, so let's not use our speculations as facts (that's why I didn't reply to any post that used "maybe" when it comes to the Void Lords in this thread as they kept it speculation).


They were only aided by the Titan in the case of Y'Shaarj, which was the most powerful Old Gods. They defeated the other Old Gods by themselves - yes, they had the titan-forged army with them, but the Old Gods had their armies that keep spawning from the OGs themselves as well. Additionally, the best destructive feat we've seen from the Old Gods were Y'Shaarj destroying mountaintops while, on the other hand, Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden are capable of destroying planet with single spell.

Destroying a planet IS usually a measure for strength. Otherwise, why do you think people categorizing characters into city-burster, mountain-burster, continent-burster, planet-burster, etc. while comparing their strength / power? It's true that it's not always the case: it only applies when the character can do it by themselves with their own strengths, so Ner'zhul's case wouldn't apply as he used the artifacts. However, that wasn't the case for the unnamed eredar (which either is Archimonde / KJ, or weaker than them) - he was casting that spell by himself, as described in "A Prophet's Lesson" or the legendary tooltip (although the tooltip can be interpreted differently).
Not too sure why would we bring Sargeras here. Firstly, he is more than a planet burster. Secondly, we aren't even comparing two planet burster entities here. We are comparing one that can destroy a planet, and one that can't (and isn't more durable than a planet). Why would you put the OGs on a higher tier when Archimonde / KJ, no PiS involved, can just destroy them with one spell?

At that time, he had already finished the war with the demons. And Sargeras did not pay attention to them, because the Void Lords is not even included at full capacity. Remember Dimensius? This Void Lords, which is only learning a part of their forces. I think if the Void Lords really came on full force, they would be immediately attacked by Sargeras, to eliminate the potential threat.

[Aquamonkey]

So, T1 Void Lords were envious of T2 Pantheon's power, and when a T2 character (Sargeras) found the T1 Void Lords in the physical universe, he didn't deem it dangerous enough to stop hunting demons, just enough to put a mental note to deal with them after he's done with the demons.

I think it's more a of a within-their-own-realms kinda thing. Void lords can't to shit in the physical realm where the titans reside. Likewise, titans are handicapped in the Void where the void lords reside. Chronicle notes that only Azeroth would have the potential to defeat the void lords once and for all, implying that within the Void, Sargeras is weaker than the void lords.

[darkoms]

I think it's more a of a within-their-own-realms kinda thing. Void lords can't to shit in the physical realm where the titans reside. Likewise, titans are handicapped in the Void where the void lords reside. Chronicle notes that only Azeroth would have the potential to defeat the void lords once and for all, implying that within the Void, Sargeras is weaker than the void lords.

This is just a guess Eonar, she does not know anything about the power of the Void Lords and thinks that if the strongest titanium Azeroth, it is automatically the strongest of all.

[Aquamonkey]

This is just a guess Eonar, she does not know anything about the power of the Void Lords and thinks that if the strongest titanium Azeroth, it is automatically the strongest of all.

More than a guess, she argued it based on how powerful the world-soul was. It was more powerful than any the Pantheon had encountered. It was so powerful that it almost completely consumed Spirit. It was infected by Old Gods, but still remained pure. Aman'Thul championed this same argument after they had Ordered Azeroth.

Even Sargeras knew he couldn't challenge the void lords directly within the Void. That's why he resorted to extreme measures to keep them out of the physical realm.

[darkoms]

More than a guess, she argued it based on how powerful the world-soul was. It was more powerful than any the Pantheon had encountered. It was so powerful that it almost completely consumed Spirit. It was infected by Old Gods, but still remained pure. Aman'Thul championed this same argument after they had Ordered Azeroth.

Even Sargeras knew he couldn't challenge the void lords directly within the Void. That's why he resorted to extreme measures to keep them out of the physical realm.

She does not know anything about the power of the Lords

I also believe that Sargeras weaker, but what makes you think that he is can go into the Void?
Я тоже считаю, что Саргерас слабее, но с чего вы взяли, что он вообще может войти в Пустоту?

[Qualia]

At that time, he had already finished the war with the demons. And Sargeras did not pay attention to them, because the Void Lords is not even included at full capacity. Remember Dimensius? This Void Lords, which is only learning a part of their forces. I think if the Void Lords really came on full force, they would be immediately attacked by Sargeras, to eliminate the potential threat.

Dimensius wasn't a void lord, though, he / she / it was only a fragment, shadow, faintest echo of them if we are to trust Xal'atath. Even without Xal'atath's quote, I believe Dimensius isn't a (perfect) void lord seeing that it could stay manifested just fine without any known / specified time limit (and clearly he can't be one of the most powerful among them...). That wasn't what Chronicle said - it stated that the void lords struggled to manifest in our universe and then spread the corruption around - and it was them who Sargeras found, not their clones / fragments.

But yeah, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Blizzard can use the difficulty to manifest attribute as a way to make the Void Lords more powerful when we get more information about them. It isn't hard to do so. For example, they can explain that Sargeras only found the Void Lords at the end of their manifesting circle when they were starting to fade back into the Void and thus, wasn't fully themselves. Or maybe the Void Lords were trying to be secretive with their schemes, so they didn't go out consuming worlds but used their own power to keep manifesting instead - hence, Sargeras only saw the unused part of their power. Something like that wouldn't be impossible, but for now, that's just my speculation / theory :P

[Zandalariprelate]

I always wondered if you take outside of his domain/realm some entity would that weakened them? Because Cenarius and many ancients wild gods are more stronger in the dream than in the physical world and we can see the same case in demons when they are outside of their realm

[death604]

I just tried doing a tier list for this shit and it is hard...

Seeing the Pre-Nerf Dragon Aspects so low on my tier list has to be wrong...but they never really did a lot except Deathwing.

So I scrapped it.

really? weakened Malygos after giving his Aspect Essence to the DS was able to block a Dragon Soul to the face with minimal damage isn't a noteworthy feat? also you can scale the aspects' power from the guys under them. Aspect Malygos is obviously stronger than any other blues, Pre-Aspect Kalec with some Adventurers were able to hold off Kil'Jaeden while Arcanagos was able to back Medivh in a corner, and they're all just plain blues not an aspect whos tons more powerful.

not only that, but the Titans entrusted the Aspects(hence the Titans were confident of the Aspect's capabilities) with stopping the HoT

[mickybrighteyes]

Thanks. That's why I have Tiers instead of absolute power levels though.

how's that different?

[steelballfc]

how's that different?

I need to know the answer too