Cuba's Fidel Castro dies aged 90

[artemishunter1]

If even Japanese and Chinese (Taiwanese, I mean), with their history, are capable of democracy, then everyone is. And regarding Afghanistan, Iraq and such, it is not clear if things would be any better there without Western involvement - or much worse. Talibs had built something North-Korean like in Afghanistan, Saddam was on his way to becoming a national god, and Assad pretty much screwed himself up, when his lust for power got the better of him and he decided to control everyone, even the tribes he had an unspoken peace with.

Totalitarian regimes tend to screw their people, and afterwards themselves too, badly, and I don't think Western involvement has changed anything significantly in those places to the worse.

at least they would have had stabilty. If we follow their cultural laws, saddam's brother or his killer would have become the next dictator. If they rebelled, they would have been killed (a small part dying is better than whole nation suffering) and talibans had maintained order. Its people had life. Hard life but life nonetheless and there were some security. Assad maintained power and would have easy destroyed the Kurds with chemical weapons if we did not interfere. If we stayed out, Europe would not have to deal with refugee crisis and now we have ISIS. And both Japan and Taiween are stickler for following rules. Democracy just serves their buracracy. But this is not true for other locals like Middle East, where might makes right after all these centuries. At the very least, it would be our fault

[May90]

at least they would have had stabilty. If we follow their cultural laws, saddam's brother or his killer would have become the next dictator. If they rebelled, they would have been killed (a small part dying is better than whole nation suffering) and talibans had maintained order. Its people had life. Hard life but life nonetheless and there were some security. Assad maintained power and would have easy destroyed the Kurds with chemical weapons if we did not interfere. If we stayed out, Europe would not have to deal with refugee crisis and now we have ISIS. And both Japan and Taiween are stickler for following rules. Democracy just serves their buracracy. But this is not true for other locals like Middle East, where might makes right after all these centuries. At the very least, it would be our fault

I'm not sure if "stably horrible" is preferable to "chaotically horrible". Look at it the other way: with Talibs owning Afghanistan, there was no perspective, nothing to move towards. You would be born in a state which, you would know, would be as bad as it is for the next many decades, and there would not be a way out - regimes like Taliban one do not particularly like letting their people escape their country freely.

As it is now, there, at least, is some ghostly hope for a change. Living in Afghanistan right now, you know that maybe, with a 1% chance, in a few decades life there will become bearable. Whilst with Talibs in power and no perspectives, had I to live in such a place, I might just commit suicide, because such life doesn't seem to be worth anything to me.

[Macaquerie]

Taiwan makes a fine example of what to do in such cases. Taiwan is a small island with no real ways to defend itself, near a superpower that arguably has the 2nd strongest military in the world. How does it maintain high quality of life and doesn't become anyone's "colony"? Very simple: it made itself into an important trade and financial hub, when it is not in anyone's interest to subdue them. China doesn't want them, because grabbing them would lead to serious political repercussions, and, well, trade problems. The US doesn't want them, because they benefit it being independent. Everyone wants them to maintain status quo, no one wants to try to influence them with power.

Cuba could have done the same. Elect a democratic leader, which would create incredible conditions for foreign investors and traders. The US would be interested in preserving their independent status, and Soviet Union wouldn't dare going anywhere near them, given that they are under the US protection.

The problem is, the opportunity to elect such a leader has never been given to them. Jumping from one dictator to another, they never had a real say in the matter.

---

From another thread...



I think it is important to always attract people's attention to regimes such as Cuban, because they are a good learning material on what one shouldn't do, and what their leaders shouldn't be allowed to do. However insignificant, Castro still has hurt badly many millions people over the last many decades, and that should not be ignored.

The geopolitical context under which Taiwan formed as a state is totally different from the situation Cuba is in. Imagine if, in response to Trump's election, all of the urban business, academic, and political elite just decided to pack up and move to Cuba, formed their own government there that was recognized by the rest of the world as the true and legitimate American government, and generally couldn't give two shits about what the native Cubans thought of the matter. That's essentially the context in which Taiwan developed and eventually prospered, which makes them a rather unique case that any other country would have a hard time replicating. On top of that, Taiwan is hardly a stable country these days anyway. There's always the ever looming threat that China will simply swallow them up, and even if that doesn't happen, most of the jobs have already moved to the mainland leaving the locals few opportunities.

[May90]

The geopolitical context under which Taiwan formed as a state is totally different from the situation Cuba is in. Imagine if, in response to Trump's election, all of the urban business, academic, and political elite just decided to pack up and move to Cuba, formed their own government there that was recognized by the rest of the world as the true and legitimate American government, and generally couldn't give two shits about what the native Cubans thought of the matter. That's essentially the context in which Taiwan developed and eventually prospered, which makes them a rather unique case that any other country would have a hard time replicating. On top of that, Taiwan is hardly a stable country these days anyway. There's always the ever looming threat that China will simply swallow them up, and even if that doesn't happen, most of the jobs have already moved to the mainland leaving the locals few opportunities.

We can then look at the way Switzerland has managed to stay neutral in most conflicts, while being a small state surrounded by warring states in the past. Or at the modern Singapore, small place which is contested by the nearby states. Or at UAE, a microscopic state, compared to the nearby Saudi Arabia, which isn't even considered as a possible expansion direction. Or even Estonia, which has always been wanted by the hungry neighbor to the east.

It is possible to turn a small place at a superpower's doorstep into a heaven for traders and investors. Not easy, but possible. However, it needs a person with a certain mentality in charge, and such a person is unlikely to emerge out of nowhere. Cuba has never been a particularly special place in this regard, and it is no accident that communists eventually took over there and not someone more competent.

[Post]

Well if this thread taught me anything it's that if you defy America it's nationals will blindly hate you until you die

Like, fair enoguh if Cubans who escaped his regime to the USA want to cheer and dance. Everyone else though, you freaking deserved what you got really Must rankle so much to think people might have the audacity to do unto America what it has no qualms about doing to other nations around the world.

I didn't appreciate the IRA, doesn't mean I think they were "evil" for wanting what they wanted. Might is right, afterall.

If you don't like the taste of USA dick you're a brutal and evil dictator Ho ho ho.

So you basically had your mind made up from the get go. That seems to be the case most of the time when people are "just asking."

[PickleballAce]

"I don't really know or care about all the shit he did, but he defied the US and that makes him a great man." -- Europeans and Canadians, basically.

[Deleted]

Reposting it here cus Crissi, with edits per request...

#trudeaueulogies

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...rudeaueulogies

Upon learning of the death of Fidel Castro, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau issued the following statement:

On the Hill Square Akin“It is with deep sorrow that I learned today of the death of Cuba’s longest serving President.

“Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.

“While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”.

“I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was also a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raúl Castro during my recent visit to Cuba.

“On behalf of all Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader.”

So Idiot-of-the-Year, PM Trudeau, has spawned one of the best hashtags of 2016 with his gushing over the brutal dictator Fidel Castro. Thought I'd share it here, we could all use a laugh.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/trudeaue...rc=twsrc%5Etfw



Meanwhile in Little Havana...

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/26/us...eath-reaction/

[AeneasBK]

So you basically had your mind made up from the get go. That seems to be the case most of the time when people are "just asking."

If you insist. But look at the reaction from Americans and non Americans and tell me there isn't a little correlation

[Deleted]

Accurate for everywhere on the internet, though.

[Nathreim]

Good he was a dictator and mass murderer.

[zerocarbs]

You're going to get infracted for posting a picture that isn't libtard friendly.

[Wells]

Castro: A Leader
Pinochet: A Bloody Dictator

I'm so glad that the likes as New York Times are going obsolete.

What's more impressive is that the NYT had one guy writing everything over 10 years.

[Post]

If you insist. But look at the reaction from Americans and non Americans and tell me there isn't a little correlation

I see people (you included apparently) giving him a pass on the horrific things he did because of an embarrassing amount of bias.

[AeneasBK]

I see people (you included apparently) giving him a pass on the horrific things he did because of an embarrassing amount of bias.

Again, if you insist. Lots of leaders have done horrific things; especially as we look further back through time. By many accounts Cuba was a brutal place before Castro arrived on the scene. What constitutes "giving him a pass", not saying I'd love to piss on his grave? Okay.

All I was observing (although I'll admit I was being an asshole about it) was that a lot of Americans seem to be taking his death almost 'personally' as if him being an enemy of America was because he's a "baddie" or something I don't know.

[Post]

All I was observing (although I'll admit I was being an asshole about it) was that a lot of Americans seem to be taking his death almost 'personally' as if him being an enemy of America was because he's a "baddie" or something I don't know.

Or he was just a bad guy and people are happy he's gone. Like all those Cubans.

[THE Bigzoman]

By many accounts, Genghis Khan was a loving, caring farther to many....

[Hammerfest]

And nothing of value was lost.

Agreed. Although, he had a pretty good pitching arm when he was younger, I hear.

[RickJamesLich]

We keep winning with Trump in office, I'm almost getting bored with it at this point

[Garnier Fructis]

[Collegeguy]

Again, if you insist. Lots of leaders have done horrific things; especially as we look further back through time. By many accounts Cuba was a brutal place before Castro arrived on the scene. What constitutes "giving him a pass", not saying I'd love to piss on his grave? Okay.

The world is such a bad place, so lets whine about people that point out the bad things?