RNG? When/where - whats the talk about?

[Deleted]

People already told you dozen times what RNG is in the other thread and here you go again and open a new thread to argue once again for the sake of arguing, pathetic.

It just bugs me people are whining, but it just doesnt make sense. It doesnt add.

Even combat rogues whines less about RNG.

This community is so misinformed, that they barely talk about DC and its interaction(my boys are talkin about it now thou). Is all about RNG AND BRACERS.

Stupid.

[Deleted]

sounds like cookie cutter rogue/feral combo points to me

You can transfer combo points from one target to another, you can't transfer wounds, if you placed wounds on a boss and had to switch to an add you have 24 seconds to go back to the boss or you lose them.

It just bugs me people are whining, but it just doesnt make sense. It doesnt add.

Even combat rogues whines less about RNG.

This community is so misinformed, that they barely talk about DC and its interaction(my boys are talkin about it now thou). Is all about RNG AND BRACERS.

Stupid.

It buggged you in the past, you have been proven wrong yet here you are opening another thread to just blurt out your misinformed opinion, you didn't open this thread to discuss the RNG, you opened just to see if you could "convince" more people that they are complaining for something that does not exist, guess what? it does, whether you like it or not.

[Deleted]

Its like the same people are quoting the same wrong proven phrases....

Yes we have many dmg sources and?

I give you some examples:

If we had 10 dmg sources and only 2 were RNG dependant.
You must look at how much dmg the 2 rng dependant sources do...
if the 8 not rng rependant dmg sources are doing like 15% of your whole dmg... then still with only 2 rng dependant dmg sources... u are screwed because of RNG.


NOW about the UH DK:
Yes we have many dmg sources... but every one of them is RNG dependant...and thats where the problem is.

Mage or Feral for example are rng dependant too... but the rng they are speaking about is the dmg rng.
UH DK rng is not only dmg but DMG-SETUP too....and thats where is the problem.. people want less rng in DMG or/and in DMG-Setup

As UH DK u need to watch for timers to know where u need to stop doing dmg to cap runes for adds incoming etc.

Or at start of the fight where u cant even do your standart opener with a prepot cause RNG screwed everything

UH DK arent rewarded with anything if we play smart... it still the same RNG...

Here you are talking about stochastic while not having a clue.
If a function has many random variables it doesnt mean that the value of the function itself is very random.

Look at the variance of the simulated results and its much lower than most other classes.
You can also look at the difference between lower and higher percentiles (real logs) and you see that DKs are on the lower end of the variance spectra.

What this means is basically that even though the playstyle is heavily dictated by RNG, the actual dps numbers arent for normal fights.

Specs where RNG actually influences the dps heavily are:
-Arms
-MM
-Spriest
-Outlaw

[Deleted]

You can transfer combo points from one target to another, you can't transfer wounds, if you placed wounds on a boss and had to switch to an add you have 24 seconds to go back to the boss or you lose them.

Yeah, buhuuu.

I can also imagine complete not so in favor scenarios in my head and play the game by my imagination.

[Deleted]

You can transfer combo points from one target to another, you can't transfer wounds, if you placed wounds on a boss and had to switch to an add you have 24 seconds to go back to the boss or you lose them.

There are certainly disadvantages of the wound system, on the other hand one major advantage is that you can build wounds on multiple targets => you can abuse them for AoE.

This surely cannot be done with combo points.

[Deleted]

Here you are talking about stochastic while not having a clue.
If a function has many random variables it doesnt mean that the value of the function itself is very random.

Look at the variance of the simulated results and its much lower than most other classes.
You can also look at the difference between lower and higher percentiles (real logs) and you see that DKs are on the lower end of the variance spectra.

What this means is basically that even though the playstyle is heavily dictated by RNG, the actual dps numbers arent for normal fights.

Specs where RNG actually influences the dps heavily are:
-Arms
-MM
-Spriest
-Outlaw

Beautiful and important message for casuals.

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Anyone else wants to describe the "Oeehmy God this spec is so RNG" syndrome?

[Deleted]

Beautiful and important message for casuals.

Ehm.. you mean then, important massage for you?

Ok...

[Deleted]

Here you are talking about stochastic while not having a clue.
If a function has many random variables it doesnt mean that the value of the function itself is very random.

Look at the variance of the simulated results and its much lower than most other classes.
You can also look at the difference between lower and higher percentiles (real logs) and you see that DKs are on the lower end of the variance spectra.

What this means is basically that even though the playstyle is heavily dictated by RNG, the actual dps numbers arent for normal fights.

Specs where RNG actually influences the dps heavily are:
-Arms
-MM
-Spriest
-Outlaw

You have to understand that the only reason we are talking about RNG is because the allmighty non casual Strifeload decided to open up this thread.

I'll take the word for many DKs here who are on a daily basis in this forum trying to see if we get the buffs we need.

We don't care that much about RNG, it can fuck you over on the opener but shit happens, if they tweaked FS to give more wounds by default it would be a buff and it would be appreaciated (it will help us altough I don't think it will fix us), so, if they lower the RNG it's a buff and it's welcome.

We are not asking for one specific buff, I'm no mathematician and I won't say that doing X or Y will fix us, it's a complex ecuation with many many variables.

but WE ARE in need of buffs on one way or another, on death coil or festering strike, or sourge strike, or make SR baseline and a new lvl 100 talent or ANYTHING.

The only reason we are debating RNG is because Strifeload wants to show his penis around here and thinks he is better than the rest because he is not asking for buffs. He saw someone talking about RNG and wanted to wave his "we are fine" flag around.

This thread should have been locked 4 hours ago.

[Deleted]

Here you are talking about stochastic while not having a clue.
If a function has many random variables it doesnt mean that the value of the function itself is very random.

Look at the variance of the simulated results and its much lower than most other classes.
You can also look at the difference between lower and higher percentiles (real logs) and you see that DKs are on the lower end of the variance spectra.

What this means is basically that even though the playstyle is heavily dictated by RNG, the actual dps numbers arent for normal fights.

Specs where RNG actually influences the dps heavily are:
-Arms
-MM
-Spriest
-Outlaw

The one without a clue are u..

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html

If you see the results...
Yes you see that Outlaw rogues , Arms or S2M Priests, have much higher rng range ... yes thats true...

But 1. That rng is like i stated about DMG not DMG-Setup
2. Even with the worst possible DPS they are still allmost if not higher then 100% perfekt rng UH DK.
3. allmost all logs are showing Patchwerk fights, where the real fight with switching, where the rng will kick in and screw you even more isnt showed...

I dont care if we have that much RNG, but pleaes make your RNG less dmg unforgiving as Rogues or Arms... i still want to be compentitive without praying to RNG for me and hoping the rogue or arms wont have good RNG for me to not be like 70-120k dps apart..

[Deleted]

The one without a clue are u..

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T19P.html

If you see the results...
Yes you see that Outlaw rogues , Arms or S2M Priests, have much higher rng range ... yes thats true...

But 1. That rng is like i stated about DMG not DMG-Setup
2. Even with the worst possible DPS they are still allmost if not higher then 100% perfekt rng UH DK.
3. allmost all logs are showing Patchwerk fights, where the real fight with switching, where the rng will kick in and screw you even more isnt showed...

I dont care if we have that much RNG, but pleaes make your RNG less dmg unforgiving as Rogues or Arms... i still want to be compentitive without praying to RNG for me and hoping the rogue or arms wont have good RNG for me to not be like 70-120k dps apart..

If you believe that these sim numbers are accurate not only for DKs but all the classes then you are either a big-time noob that likes to call other people noobs or you play a different game but you like to post about WoW...Even if you are pointing out the RNG statistic factor, you do it upon false data..

[Deleted]

If you believe that these sim numbers are accurate not only for DKs but all the classes then you are either a big-time noob that likes to call other people noobs or you play a different game but you like to post about WoW...Even if you are pointing out the RNG statistic factor, you do it upon false data..

i never called that the sims are wrong... learn to read... i just told that patchwork fights showing only that even if a dk with 100% rng luck still gonna do the same amount of dmg as arms with 0 rng luck

[Deleted]

Fanakk and co.

There some people here, who have been playing last 10 years. A decade. When some a loud, these people will start wondering, what the fuck are you talking about?

It annoys me, that this community went from 40 /days played(!!)on avg. back in the days to level from 1-60(and NOBODY would whine)and today, people can't even take in some basic knowledge(granted, it comes from experience).

Just like Preachers latest video on 7.1.5(namely about Shadow Priest - this is a really good example) - you have no chance against a veteran player as a SP, who are squeezing it so hard, that are are dealing twice as much as some other class(you simple can't do that). Going from this example, this community is filled with avg. SP's.

They believe litteraly, that dealing 2 wounds during pull, going to cost them DPS(ignoring the avg. outcome in a fight that is 5min long fx). This is so basic, that you can litteraly ask a child from a elementary scool and they will explain the logic behind(and yes, I suck with math as well). And this concludes the 70-80% of the critic DK's are getting, is all about RNG.

Can you see how stupid this is? Why im burning?

[Deleted]

Fanakk and co.

There some people here, who have been playing last 10 years. A decade. When some a loud, these people will start wondering, what the fuck are you talking about?

It annoys me, that this community went from 40 /days played(!!)on avg. back in the days to level from 1-60(and NOBODY would whine)and today, people can't even take in some basic knowledge(granted, it comes from experience).

They believe litteraly, that dealing 2 wounds during pull, going to cost them DPS(ignoring the avg. outcome in a fight that is 5min long fx). This is so basic, that you can litteraly ask a child from a elementary scool and they will explain the logic(and yes, I suck with math as well).

Be quite and stay casual.

You are going to lose DPS when you get 2 wounds from 1 FS, it's simple as that. It's math. If all your FS gives you 8 wounds you would be dealing crazy damage.

There is no point on denying that RNG affects our gamplay, that does not mean that RNG is the reason why we are having a hard time.

If apocalypse had 30 seconds more cooldown, would be lose DPS? ofc we would, If we need to delay Apocalypse 15 seconds due to bad RNG, aren't we losing DPS? of course we are losing DPS.

Don't try to say RNG does not affect that, it does. You can normalize the RNG and reach the conclussion that you get, on average, 3 wounds per FS, that is correct, that doesn not mean that if, on average, we would get 4, that wouldn't increase or DPS. That does not mean either that we would be fixed if we get 4 wounds on average per FS.

And the average wound per FS also dosn't take into account that you sometimes need to delay your cd's due to bad RNG and you won't get that back in the long run either. And if you have the shoulder's like me you are not only delaying Apocalypse and SR, you are also delaying Dark Transformation.

[Deleted]

i never called that the sims are wrong... learn to read... i just told that patchwork fights showing only that even if a dk with 100% rng luck still gonna do the same amount of dmg as arms with 0 rng luck

And you learn to use tools and interpret data. Simcraft is wrong so this list is completely garbage in terms of numbers, ranks and statistical value. Arms warriors might be even in better position than you suggest for example. If you want to prove something at least present and argue on valid data. Plus trusting sims with all these errors that are around is bs in terms of integrity...An Arms warrior can tell you for example that there is a huge difference between sims tactician procs and in-game procs frequency..

[Deleted]

Fanakk and co.

There some people here, who have been playing last 10 years. A decade. When some a loud, these people will start wondering, what the fuck are you talking about?

It annoys me, that this community went from 40 /days played(!!)on avg. back in the days to level from 1-60(and NOBODY would whine)and today, people can't even take in some basic knowledge(granted, it comes from experience).

They believe litteraly, that dealing 2 wounds during pull, going to cost them DPS(ignoring the avg. outcome in a fight that is 5min long fx). This is so basic, that you can litteraly ask a child from a elementary scool and they will explain the logic behind(and yes, I suck with math as well). And this concludes the 70-80% of the critic DK's are getting, is all about RNG.

Can you see how stupid this is? Why im burning?

Look Strifeload,

maybe i can give u an example why people dont like your attitude.

Let us try to make it that even you could understand it:

Lets see i hope u know Jürgen Klopp its one of the best Soccer or Football Trainers in the World.
Lets see, if he will be saying that some Football rules are bad for the development of the Football like no Goalline Camera, or no Penalty faking cameras checks..
We cant denide here that he is a good Football Trainer and knows his shit

Now some guy with the name for example Strifeload comes around.. is a casual football player who playes maybe 1-2 times per week with his friends or randon guys in the Park. And he will tell that Jürgen Klopp is wrong, and that HE(Strifeload) has no problem with NO goalline cameras or penatly faking camerachecks..

And thats the Problem about you..

YOU are a casual, and u want tell people who are doing semi/full progress raiding, that they are wrong about a CLASS that they are mastering on daily basis.
You the guy with only PUG HC EXP and LFR EXP is saying everything is allright aber other progress raiders are wrong, cause they are Switching to FROST ...
CAUSE in your opinion UH is good and nothing wrong with it...

I hope i could open your eyes a little...

sincerly not a casual...

[Deleted]

You are going to lose DPS when you get 2 wounds from 1 FS, it's simple as that. It's math. If all your FS gives you 8 wounds you would be dealing crazy damage.

There is no point on denying that RNG affects our gamplay, that does not mean that RNG is the reason why we are having a hard time.

If apocalypse had 30 seconds more cooldown, would be lose DPS? ofc we would, If we need to delay Apocalypse 15 seconds due to bad RNG, aren't we losing DPS? of course we are losing DPS.

Don't try to say RNG does not affect that, it does. You can normalize the RNG and reach the conclussion that you get, on average, 3 wounds per FS, that is correct, that doesn not mean that if, on average, we would get 4, that wouldn't increase or DPS. That does not mean either that we would be fixed if we get 4 wounds on average per FS.

And the average wound per FS also dosn't take into account that you sometimes need to delay your cd's due to bad RNG and you won't get that back in the long run either. And if you have the shoulder's like me you are not only delaying Apocalypse and SR, you are also delaying Dark Transformation.

No.

THAT IS NOT TRUE OMFG.

If you fight for say 5min against a boss. You have to count, how many times you burst wounds. You can burst 10 during first 20sec on one pull, and 20 during 2nd pull. It all ends up with you are bursting 90-100 wounds regardless of your opener after 5min. This won't result in a dramatic DPS loss as you make it sound like.

You are a playing the game in your head, just to prove your point.

Christ.

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Look Strifeload,

maybe i can give u an example why people dont like your attitude.

Let us try to make it that even you could understand it:

Lets see i hope u know Jürgen Klopp its one of the best Soccer or Football Trainers in the World.
Lets see, if he will be saying that some Football rules are bad for the development of the Football like no Goalline Camera, or no Penalty faking cameras checks..
We cant denide here that he is a good Football Trainer and knows his shit

Now some guy with the name for example Strifeload comes around.. is a casual football player who playes maybe 1-2 times per week with his friends or randon guys in the Park. And he will tell that Jürgen Klopp is wrong, and that HE(Strifeload) has no problem with NO goalline cameras or penatly faking camerachecks..

And thats the Problem about you..

YOU are a casual, and u want tell people who are doing semi/full progress raiding, that they are wrong about a CLASS that they are mastering on daily basis.
You the guy with only PUG HC EXP and LFR EXP is saying everything is allright aber other progress raiders are wrong, cause they are Switching to FROST ...
CAUSE in your opinion UH is good and nothing wrong with it...

I hope i could open your eyes a little...

sincerly not a casual...

Get of you fucking troll.

You started of like a person, you got cornered and now you troll.

About my experience(I don't do penis content), but it can be anywhere from LFR to Mythic or nothing. You still need to learn how to understand data thou before talking.

[Deleted]

And you learn to use tools and interpret data. Simcraft is wrong so this list is completely garbage in terms of numbers, ranks and statistical value. Arms warriors might be even in better position than you suggest for example. If you want to prove something at least present and argue on valid data. Plus trusting sims with all these errors that are around is bs in terms of integrity...An Arms warrior can tell you for example that there is a huge difference between sims tactician procs and in-game procs frequency..

Please show me Data that proves that DKs are good and not to much RNG dependant, if u think that official simcraft data is wrong...
U are just bitching around without any proof, if i try to bring some proof(even if its not 100% accurate) you are telling me that my data is wrong without showing me the right data...

[Deleted]

Please show me Data that proves that DKs are good and not to much RNG dependant, if u think that official simcraft data is wrong...
U are just bitching around without any proof, if i try to bring some proof(even if its not 100% accurate) you are telling me that my data is wrong without showing me the right data...

I never said DKs are good, you can straw as much as you like. So instead of pointing other peoples attitude start with your own and also your ability to understand and read that others are telling you....When Nighthold releases and Tier 19 with sets and everything becomes a thing and I have the logs data I will gladly present them to you but I doubt you will be able to understand them after all...

[Deleted]

No.

THAT IS NOT TRUE OMFG.

If you fight for say 5min against a boss. You have to count, how many times you burst wounds. You can burst 10 during first 20sec on one pull, and 20 during 2nd pull still time frame. It all ends up with you are bursting 90-100 wounds regardless of your opener after 5min.

Christ.

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Get of you fucking troll.

You started of like a person, you got cornered and now you troll.

Why i am a troll? Tell me what about my example is wrong?
Why do u think League of Legends hiring PRO players to help them balance their game and not casuals?
I am not trolling, but everyone who is not with ur oppinion , u are accusing to be a troll...

Why did u open that thread? Because u wanted to try to get "AGAIN" approve to your wrong proven agruments about UH dks... but again nobody but 1-2 same guys are on ur page...

You accused me a casual... i have proven you wrong.... we have shown you data about frost uh dks... u told us we are wrong...

maybe... just maybe... not we are the problem but you?

[Deleted]

Why i am a troll? Tell me what about my example is wrong?
Why do u think League of Legends hiring PRO players to help them balance their game and not casuals?
I am not trolling, but everyone who is not with ur oppinion , u are accusing to be a troll...

Why did u open that thread? Because u wanted to try to get "AGAIN" approve to your wrong proven agruments about UH dks... but again nobody but 1-2 same guys are on ur page...

You accused me a casual... i have proven you wrong.... we have shown you data about frost uh dks... u told us we are wrong...

maybe... just maybe... not we are the problem but you?

If blizz hired you, you will would print 1 page with the text "THIS IS TOO MUCH RNG".

Why do you think I want to shut you?

We don't want more casual influence in this game. Just see WoD.